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Deleted member 756486
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“Twitter and Instagram are the playgrounds of idiots.”
-Noel Gallagher
2018 Madrid Masters SF: Alexander Zverev [2] vs Denis Shapovalov
- Thread starter Standaa
- Start date
-Noel Gallagher
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
I think Thiem should win and I hope he does after he basically overpowered Nadal at this tournament.
It will be a shame if Thiem doesn't beat Zverev on this surface after doing so well against the clay GOAT.
I was actually watching some Thiem YouTube interviews for the first time ever and I was surprised at how well-spoken and self-assured he was. He seems very comfortable in his own skin and there is no shred of arrogance there which is unusual for a successful player. Also, although he often makes dumb shot selections on the court, at least off of it he doesn't appear to be stupid like his peer Coric who couldn't answer one tennis history question. Thiem was reeling off answer after answer and is very aware of tennis history.
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
Which Gallagher brother was the idiot again? Liam or Noel?
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Deleted member 756486
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Zebrev
Hall of Fame
And if you do so, make sure you correct the parameters of your errant assumption.
Nobody here has claimed Zverev is "talent-less" or "a pretender." Endless posters instead have claimed he is:
Self-entitled
Conceited
A total freakin' brat
One dimensional game with zero net skills (and Z admits himself "I won't volley and can't volley"-- March, 2018).
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So what you claim was pulled out of your imagination.
Second imagined point: "Shapo is a true prince of tennis."
I can't remember one poster claiming Denis was the "true future Prince of tennis." Post a link to that fantasy, please. Make sure the words "future" and "Prince" are in the same sentence. This is what posters have actually been saying about Denis:
1. He's a work in progress
2. He is more talented (except for Nick) of any next Gen player
3. He's polite, well grounded and a decent kid.
Post the truth and not hyperbolic nonsense. Thank you.
Haha, a bit embarassed perhaps that your man got humiliated by someone apparently so average. Sorry, but I never claimed those were direct quotes, so there's no need for me to prove anything. The fact is, everyone here is being hyperbolic, everyone paraphrases eachothers positions.
It's funny how you backpedal now, moderating your dismissal of Zverev and your approval of Shapo. Now he's just a good kid who is a work in process. Yeah, no hype train there. But what you can't dispute is that you have never given Zverev the credit for achieving what he has done. Thats what I can't understand about the haters. They demand that Zverev should be playing better and winning more than he is, with already 4 masters finals to his name, and yet have infinite patience and understanding with someone who never made a Master's final in his career. Zverev won his first masters a year ago now, and his first title around 20 months ago. He is only 2 years older than Shapo, so I'll assume you'll start demanding that Shapo reach his first masters final before 2019 and win his first title in the same time frame. That's only fair isn't it?
Look, don't like Zverev for some reason? Think he's arrogant? Can't appreciate the uniqueness for someone 20/21 to raise themselves into top 5 position in the ranks and remain there for months. Thats fine. But don't pretend like if Zverev started making in a few rounds deeper in slams, or if he practiced his volley more, that you'd suddenly start respecting him and giving credit where it's due. At least have the ability to recognise that there just something you in particular can't get on board with, instead of pretend like he has done nothing to prove himself, all while heaping praise and encouragement on players that have done even less to prove themselves. Yes Shapo is 2 years younger, but this attitude about Zverev didn't start yesterday, it's been around for years. Not every player is flashy, perhaps you just prefer the flair of Shapo.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Zverev has been the overall better player thus far over Thiem(no doubt about that) and Zverev even has the clay Masters 1000 to his name over Thiem but in their match-up, Zverev has never defeated Thiem on clay(though it's been close.) It should be a close final and it could go either way but I give Thiem the edge on this surface. Thiem beat the clay GOAT quite easily. It would be a real disappointment for him if he can't lift the trophy after doing that I would imagine.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
You make a valid point. Zverev has been challenging Federer. I for one am scared sh*tless when I know these two will meet these days. I think many posters on this board are ok with youngsters progressing as long as they don't beat Federer. Ha ha! Zverev has definitely been accomplishing great things at his young age.
The issue is that Zverev and Kyrgios, for example, have challenged Federer but I think it's time that they really step up and beat Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic when it matters most and then go on to win the titles. They need to start challenging the Big Four at the slams and winning slams. It's coming soon though.
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Shapo does have phenomenal power for any age.
How do you define "big serve"? For almost any definition I can think of Denis already has better and bigger serve than Sasha.
Ace %? Denis 9,9 %, Sasha 9,0 %. Advantage Denis.
1st serve points won? Denis 74,9 %, Sasha 72,4 %. Advantage Denis.
2nd serve points won? Denis 54,0 %, Sasha 50,9 %. Advantage Denis.
Serve points won? Denis 65,7 %, Sasha 64,3 %. Advantage Denis.
Hold percentage? Denis 82,8 %, Sasha 81,0 %. Advantage Denis.
It is truly remarkable. Being 15 cm shorter yet have better serve. But those are the facts. In every single metric Denis has better serve than Sasha. Speak volumes about amazing technical quality of Denis's serve.
Sysyphus
Talk Tennis Guru
It truly is a magnificent serve from such a normal height, and technically beautiful.
I get young Sampras vibes, and if he continues to improve it, he could indeed end up with a comparable delivery.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Del Potro? Raonic? Ok, so not "medical evidence" per se, but I think a valid point is raised. Even if Zverev stays relatively healthy throughout his career, when was the last time you saw a dominant force in tennis that was 6'6?
If I'm concerned about anything with Zverev it's that he plays mostly baseline tennis as a guy that tall.
Clay might be easier on the knees, but HC is brutal on the knees and it's the most popular surface on tour. I expect that Zverev will do many great things in his career, but I think his height is an unfortunate negative that he can't control, and may always lead to many "what if" type scenarios with him.
Maybe Zverev will start a new trend. Hopefully he does. Would hate to see his career plagued by injuries.
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abmk
Bionic Poster
not medical evidence, but past history....
Krajicek, Stich, Safin, Phillippoussis, Raonic, Delpo ....the list of tall guys prone to injuries is far too long.
Can't really think of a tall guy who was relatively injury free through the course of his career.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
I can't interpret your stats because you don't give any context for them. Are they for this week? 2018? Career? all surfaces combined? Clay?
But man, forget about stats and just watch the matches. Z and Shapo are 2 of my fav players, so I watch every time they play and Z can bot more than Shapo. It's OK because Shapo has other strengths in his game + at his age he's still a work in progress of course. Z struggled with his serve for several months but since Munich, he has served like a man possessed and it's made all opponents look helpless! Too bad serve won't help him much at RG
Meles
Bionic Poster
I now blame you
for the Zedzilla pestilence.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
I now blame you
Before the match, I really thought Thiem had a good chance to win the title!
What good is beating Nadal on clay if you can't beat Zverev too?
Meles
Bionic Poster
I highly doubt Nadal is beating this Zverev. They just played in Davis Cup a month ago and it was 6-1, 6-4, 6-4. Zverev was still pretty shaky with his serving through Monte Carlo. Zedzilla may not be broken even by Nadal and I can assure you he'll find a way to win against Nadal even if its breakers, but the Zedzilla return game has spiked as well so I doubt he'll need to win any TBs.Before the match, I really thought Thiem had a good chance to win the title!
With this kind of serving he's going to have all sorts of slam stamina. Right now it appears Nadal is his only matchup problem. #18 straight sets on clay.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
I highly doubt Nadal is beating this Zverev. They just played in Davis Cup a month ago and it was 6-1, 6-4, 6-4. Zverev was still pretty shaky with his serving through Monte Carlo. Zedzilla may not be broken even by Nadal and I can assure you he'll find a way to win against Nadal even if its breakers, but the Zedzilla return game has spiked as well so I doubt he'll need to win any TBs.
Sit down!
I really doubt Zedzilla will take three sets off Nadal at the FO. Madrid is totally different than RG conditions.
Meles
Bionic Poster
And Rome is not RG so this would still hold even if Zverev takes Rome?Sit down!
I really doubt Zedzilla will take three sets off Nadal at the FO. Madrid is totally different than RG conditions.
Meles
Bionic Poster
His team is well aware of this and every time Zverev falls its like a major incident. He stumbled in doubles this week and it was an immediate MTO. Zverev knows what he faces from being so tall.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Shapo is amazing especially for his height and age (next Sampras really), but he won 70.0% of his clay serve points this week which is astoundingly high, but Zedzilla won a jaw dropping 74.0% of serve points over the last two weeks.
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
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Deleted member 756486
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No don’t get me wrong Liam in his day was really talented, just watch this:
Shapo is amazing especially for his height and age (next Sampras really), but he won 70.0% of his clay serve points this week which is astoundingly high, but Zedzilla won a jaw dropping 74.0% of serve points over the last two weeks.
Yet jut week bfore your timespan, in Monte Carlo, he won just 55 % of is serve poins, lower number than any today pro player. 2 good weeks does not make his serve ATG. Who is better server - player who wins one week 74 %, another 55 %, on average 64,5 % (Zverev), or other player, who wins once 70 % and other week 62 %, on average 66% (Shapo)?
I can't interpret your stats because you don't give any context for them. Are they for this week? 2018? Career? all surfaces combined? Clay?
But man, forget about stats and just watch the matches. Z and Shapo are 2 of my fav players, so I watch every time they play and Z can bot more than Shapo. It's OK because Shapo has other strengths in his game + at his age he's still a work in progress of course. Z struggled with his serve for several months but since Munich, he has served like a man possessed and it's made all opponents look helpless! Too bad serve won't help him much at RG
Career, all surfaces.
I do not watch Zverev that much but Shapo right now IS his serve. Without it he has nothing. Whole 2018 the serve was the only weapon that carried him trought his matches. The serve is what separates him from another young players and why he can really become great player. He has good forehand, solid bakhand and movement - but almost all pros do have that. The serve is what makes Shapo unique and what predestines him to become great.
DRII
G.O.A.T.
no its not
what separates Shapo is the 'pop' on his ground strokes.
his serve is only good, its not nearly in the league of NK's! its not as good as AZ's either.
so please stop hyping his serve.
lucky Shapo is a lefty, if he were right handed his serve would be rather 'normal' for an up and comer.
prairiegirl
Hall of Fame
Spoke to a physiotherapist about tall athletes and their injuries. He agreed that they are more likely to incur serious, long-term injuries due to the fact that they tend to have a lower muscle to bone/joint ratio. Zverev is very thin and is therefore putting a huge amount of pressure on his joints. This may, or may not, lead to multiple injuries.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Yeah I figured you didn’t watch Z much because if you did, you would know that his serve can be a monster, nothing current Shapo’s could compare to. The reason why the stats don’t tell the story in this case is because they are averages and Z has alternated periods of craptastic serving with streaks of superbotting. But when superbot shows up, it’s really quite intimidating and Shapo at his best doesn’t come close. That’s why Z won Madrid not only without getting broken but facing only one breakpoint the entire event
In the meantime, Shapo was getting broken left and right. Shapo is still a teen though. His game is going to evolve a lot and I quite like what I see already.
