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2018 Rogers Cup SF - [1] Rafael Nadal vs Karen Khachanov
- Thread starter The Green Mile
- Start date
clayqueen
Bionic Poster
Still not his strong point. Djoker is great at keeping the ball in play waiting for errors. Ping Pong, in other words.He hit exactly the same amount of winners in his 10-8 fifth set win over Nadal....
TheAssassin
G.O.A.T.
And hits way more winners than Nadal in general.He hit exactly the same amount of winners in his 10-8 fifth set win over Nadal....
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Deleted member 77403
Guest
It is against Nadal. Look at the majority of his matches with Nadal, and you will see he will have the lion's share of winners, even in matches that Nadal edged him out. Djokovic just have the perfect balance of attack and defense to rattle Nadal, force him into defensive position with an AGGRESSIVE return, and then attack Nadal's backhand and even aattack his forehand wide to the left. That is how you seriously hurt Nadal, the balance of aggression with patient ball striking. Going for winners off every ball is not a sustainable strategy unless you are redlining like God, like Federer did in IW 2017.
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clayqueen
Bionic Poster
And Djokovic only leads by 2 matches - 27/25, a good chunk of which were won between 2011 and 2016 when Rafa was coping with injury - recovery - injury and loss of confidence due to repeated injuries. Considering Djokovic has won the majority of their matches in that period, he still only leads by 2 matches and a few of his wins could have gone either way.
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Deleted member 77403
Guest
And Nadal won a significant amount of his matches against a much poorer form of Djokovic pre 2011. We can play this game all day.
clayqueen
Bionic Poster
So Djokovic wasn't good enough to beat Nadal. You go on about their h2h as if it's 23-15 to Djoker. Relax. They are a good match for each other.
clayqueen
Bionic Poster
When I made my comment about the locker room manual, of course, I wasn't referring to the top players but you are so sensitive about Djoker's status. Everyone knows that the other B3 do not rely on hitting winners off every ball to beat Rafa.
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Deleted member 77403
Guest
The fact Djokovic has beaten Nadal 27 times, shows that your theory of having to hit winner off of every ball is false, and THAT is the point I am making. Djokovic has the ideal game to beat Nadal, for all the reasons I have explained, a balance between aggression, rallying, shot making, great defense, point construction, and pulling the trigger.
I would rather look at the guy who has beaten Nadal 27 times, than a guy who has beaten him one or twice to know what is the best way to beat Nadal.
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Deleted member 77403
Guest
Nah, as usual you like blowing his horn with baseless points...you didn't mention anything about top players, and you know it.
clayqueen
Bionic Poster
Djokovic is a defender - pure and simple. He says, himself that his game is to defend the baseline.
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Deleted member 77403
Guest
Then explain why Djokovic hits more winners against Nadal than vice versa? What does that say about Nadal, that a defender hits more winners in their matches than him?
clayqueen
Bionic Poster
Djokovic knows that hitting winners is the only way to beat Nadal. He's just sticking to the locker room manual. Playing ping-pong against Rafa is not going to do it.
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Deleted member 77403
Guest
No, he balances it out with rallying, attacking Nadal's backhand and forehand to get errors...even you have seen that, since you watch every Nadal match.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Sorry guys, this is gonna be one of those crazy days that I agree with Hitman. Djokovic is an offensive player. He uses defense as PART of his offense.
RelentlessAttack
Hall of Fame
Analyzing Djokovic vs Nadal for overall trends is kind of like analyzing Federer vs Nadal for overall trends. The matchup is tilted such that the usual player and statistical characteristics don’t hold.
Djokovic has the ideal game to bother Nadal, much as Nadal had the ideal game to bother Roger.
The world best ROS against Nadal’s mediocre lefty serve, the BH wide to the FH followed by an easy BH of FH to Nadal’s open backhand side off a short ball. How many hundreds of times did we see that pattern? It’s like the opposite of Nadal’s lefty forehand to OHBH advantage vs Roger.
It became a lot worse for Nadal vs Djokovic after Madrid 2009 when Nadal’s movement to the BH side declined heavily, and then again in 2011 when Djokovic improved his fitness and consistency.
Djokovic has the ideal game to bother Nadal, much as Nadal had the ideal game to bother Roger.
The world best ROS against Nadal’s mediocre lefty serve, the BH wide to the FH followed by an easy BH of FH to Nadal’s open backhand side off a short ball. How many hundreds of times did we see that pattern? It’s like the opposite of Nadal’s lefty forehand to OHBH advantage vs Roger.
It became a lot worse for Nadal vs Djokovic after Madrid 2009 when Nadal’s movement to the BH side declined heavily, and then again in 2011 when Djokovic improved his fitness and consistency.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Nalbandian used to do the same many times.
JohnnyMac Fan!
Legend
Subjective, so no
tacou
G.O.A.T.
I'm not a huge Cliff fan but I think he and BG have a good thing.always liked Cliff but his sell-by date was long ago, needs to be gently retired
his science project about KK's forehand, with BG's and Goodall's help, was interminable
p.s. could somebody tell Goodall he is allowed to speak above a whisper after the match
p.p.s. Chris Fowler was supposed to be there instead of Cliff, but tore his pec bench-pressing...true story
What did you dislike about the forehand breakdown? I never realized he had such a wild grip.
marc45
G.O.A.T.
their personalities are fine, even enjoyable...the fact they did the video breakdown twice, once is enough...and the incessant talking about it all night..they treated it like a science experiment and that experiment was the highlight of the night for them in many ways
tacou
G.O.A.T.
Ohh I see, only caught the last 30 minutes or so.
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