Daniel Andrade
Hall of Fame
It might be more because of the big 3 than because the next generation is garbage.
Obviously the big generation isn't Nadal, Fed and Djoko...
but they aren't because probably it's difficult to beat them.
2018 US Open Quarter-final - Rafael Nadal (1) vs Dominic Thiem (9)
- Thread starter Hamnavoe
- Start date
Obviously the big generation isn't Nadal, Fed and Djoko...
but they aren't because probably it's difficult to beat them.
Daniel Andrade
Hall of Fame
He isn't a bad player, he chokes and sometimes just bashes the ball like he does on Roland Garros against Nadal.
But to te be fair 99% of players do the same thing against great players, so what happens to Thiem isn't something rare.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Please stop with the fraudulent commentary and stats.I think you are wrong. I would have no problem after RG if I was Thiem. Nadal was unplayable there. But today, I would remember all the points that I missed that would have won me the match... those are the points that stick - not flashy winners at the wrong time.
But I guess they have clever psychologists that can convince them to focus better than us mere mortals
Thiem had a 6-0 set where Nadal won only 7 points to start the match. The beast awoke and brought out some of his best tennis after this as the match escalated into the third set. The first set was a great fantasy, but Nadal had a tight slow start and Thiem steam rolled him. Credit to Thiem as he did this to Nishikori for two sets at RG, Delpo at US Open last year, and now the bagel of Nadal before he could get into the match. Still, you can't mix in stats from those sets for a true picture. Sometimes Thiem is able to smother a player before they get going in match, but its in the other players hands to come out cold in the first place.
maxrenn
Legend
Tennis is cruel, both showed such spirit, Thiem will surely have his day if he can maintain and improve.
Daniel Andrade
Hall of Fame
I understand your frustration.
And I would have felt the same if this was a match won by Federer.
But despite Thiem 'choking', because not choking against a difficult player is kinda difficult, again you have to give credit to Nadal, he's old, his knees are garbage, when he does not coordinate well his plan B is running despite being a grandpa, and sometimes he still wins.
That accounts for something.
I understand that we're worried that as soon as these guys leave we won't get the same enjoyment from tennis, and that's why we're angry with the Thiem's, Zverev's, Kyrgios, etc.
But perhaps we're asking too much, very probably players of the caliber of Nadal, Djoko, Fed, etc won't happen in a long time.
Meles
Bionic Poster
I had no idea you were this stupid.
Daniel Andrade
Hall of Fame
D
Deleted member 756486
Guest
Nadal was his opponent and he lost so that means Nadal won, no?
Daniel Andrade
Hall of Fame
Probably Thiem deserved it as much. I mean, he got to the fifth and also bageled him.
But perhaps Nadal's usual grind is enough.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Two days off should set the table for a great SF, but if its as great as this one, then the winner will be somewhat compromised for the final. Is it guaranteed Nadal v Delpo is the early match Friday?
Daniel Andrade
Hall of Fame
When you play the bashing game, that's what you get.
Djokodal Fan
Hall of Fame
Yes. You don't want these guys to be playing for 8+ hrs given how intensive the game was. I liked the 5th set tie break for a change
Daniel Andrade
Hall of Fame
Perhaps they might deserve it equally.
But how can the loser player deserve it much more?
Because he bageled the first set? lol
Djokodal Fan
Hall of Fame
Usually the top half plays the first semi followed by the bottom half. So this should start first on Friday. Advantage Nadal if djok and cikic/Nishi end up having 5 hr battleTwo days off should set the table for a great SF, but if its as great as this one, then the winner will be somewhat compromised for the final. Is it guaranteed Nadal v Delpo is the early match Friday?
Meles
Bionic Poster
This is very true and why we rarely see Federer go big at the end of the tightest matches,and instead goes into baseline grinder mode (the Millman match forced Fed's hand in the uncomfortable conditions.) Thiem is fully capable of grinding which he did a bit in the first set. Once Nadal was in full flight in this match Thiem could not push nearly as much or Nadal would quickly control the point. He had to go quite big and credit to him for threading the needle for the most part in this match (only saw him go too big on just a handful of scattered shots.) Shapovalov very much faces this demon. Thiem was quite clutch in this match, but both player were physically leaking oil in the fifth set. This may of helped Thiem is some ways stay relaxed for some punch drunk serving, but I suspect it also cost him on some shots like that last difficult, but clunky overhead miss. Credit Thiem for tiring Nadal enough by late in the fourth to get a few key precious donations.
I like Delpo, but I'll be cheering for Nadal to crush the field from here on out.
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clayqueen
Talk Tennis Guru
If matches were won by the number of aces, Isner, Karlovic and Raonic will be the Big 3.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Oh sure, but in those last two sets or so I felt like he was reining it in just a tiny bit, until the TB. The guy just has no idea how to play pressure points. There are no set patterns of play. Under pressure he gets that rush of adrenaline/nervous energy and he just overhits wildly. He backs up even farther than normal to hit massive FHs with no angle to them really, and he is a terrible net player, which in fairness, everybody knew coming in.
Federer and Del Potro
Talk Tennis Guru
I think it's both
clayqueen
Talk Tennis Guru
Don't give up the day job.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Good to give the view without the first set. Thiem was quite clutch in this match by any measure. He saved 5 break points in the fifth making him 12 of 17 for the match (9 of 10 for the last two sets.
) Nadal did not fail on his own serve managing to hold 70% of the break points on his own serve after the first set.
underground
G.O.A.T.
It's not surprising though since Thiem won with a bagel at the start. Rafa most likely won more points overall in the remaining 4 sets. So it's not as bad as what Fed does in tight matches.
fednad
Hall of Fame
Great knowledge !
Seems you have shed a lot for him.
Meles
Bionic Poster
mike danny
Bionic Poster
West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
Had to go to sleep after the 3rd. Woke up to the result.
Huge respect for Thiem. Could have easily let it go in the 4th.
But dude, work on your volleys, little dinks inside the service line, and overheads. That volley at the end of the 3rd - you had 90% of the court - no need to cut it nearly that much.
Huge respect for Thiem. Could have easily let it go in the 4th.
But dude, work on your volleys, little dinks inside the service line, and overheads. That volley at the end of the 3rd - you had 90% of the court - no need to cut it nearly that much.
Meles
Bionic Poster
I know with Thiem on clay he's able to stifle him with high bouncing balls that Thiem can't hit through. Thankfully for Thiem this was not the case in this match despite some fairly hot conditions, but maybe in a hot daytime match he might have muzzled Thiem a bit more.
clayqueen
Talk Tennis Guru
Rafa was being coached by Ben Stiller.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Nadal lost a bit of sharpness late in the 4th (hard to keep up your highest level an entire match) and he definitely was a bit tired the rest of the match. My feeling was the two went hand in hand in this match. Thiem was able to get Nadal to leak some oil with some gutsy play, but it wouldn't have happened if Nadal wasn't fatiguing.
It will be interesting to see Nadal's form after the two days off. This match was his best by far for the year on hard courts (ignoring the cold first of course). It doesn't look like Thiem did any real physical damage as Nadal's serving was perfectly fine in the 5th. Hard to believe he won't be fresh enough to dominate the rest of the way. A tough match with Delpo probably has a lot more impact given Rafa's time on the court for the tournament, but I suspect he won't be caught napping again like this match or the Delpo US Open first set last year.
Northern
Hall of Fame
Most impressively, Nadal was beating prime (not post prime) Federer in his teens (not in his early 20s.)
Two days off should set the table for a great SF, but if its as great as this one, then the winner will be somewhat compromised for the final. Is it guaranteed Nadal v Delpo is the early match Friday?
I think Nadal vs Del Potro will be the second match even though they're in the top half. ESPN will make sure of that. It will be a rainy/cloudy day so heat wouldn't be a factor. Nadal will have over 60 hours to recover, that's two and a half days. This extra day is huge for him.
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Northern
Hall of Fame
How can he get tired when the matches aren't long and Fed more or less wins his service games easily?
We saw what happened to his serve when he wasn't in perfect physical shape against Millman. The heat got to him and his serve went AWOL. You think it's easy to keep serving that well for 3-4 hours?
fhdowntheline
Semi-Pro
Somehow I have mixed feelings about this. Yeah Thiem hung around till the end of the 5th in a tie-breaker et al, but a miss is as good as a mile. In the great history of the game, this scoreline is a routine affair. I am sure even Nadal has won similar and perhaps closer matches in his career. Therefore, while there's due credit to the efforts of Thiem, can't help but be a little harsh about the fact that its no fun if he doesn't close out on the key points and win the match. I mean, we are talking about this great hope just because he is doing a bit better than others in the 500s/1000s. But all great players have been there, done that !
He has lost many as well, especially in the last 3-4 years.
TennisFan3
Talk Tennis Guru
I don't disagree with you. But you have to admit Thiem played FAR above his usual level throughout the match.
Did you see his clutch serving? He had so many aces and hit so many service winners. Sure, part of that is driven by Nadal's sub-optimal ROS, but still when Rafa is standing so far back, it's not easy to ace him or to hit serve winners. Thiem was also NOT missing much. Sometimes not even on big points. The backhand was deadly, and I haven't even see Stan hit so big with one handed backhand. Not to mention he was as fit as a fiddle and running around like a bunny.
We think of Thiem as a brainless ball basher who chokes on big points. And yes, he did choke on some big points. But he also played really well and made a lot of crazy winners and impossible gets, which he doesn't usually. Everyone chokes on big points. Even Nadal choked on a few ( the sitter backhand retun on 30-40 bp in 5th set for instance). And so does Federer.
Overall it was a great match, and given Nadal was not at his best, Rafa had to use all his experience and some luck to prevail. Also the law of averages, he lost a close one to Nole in Wimbledon, so perhaps he was due here..
His 5 set record went down from 77% (I think?) to 62% in the last 4 years. He is 4-7 since 2015, that's not a great record but on the positive side it shows that he has been consistently playing well at slams, at least since the beginning of 2017 and it has taken some great performances from his opponents to take him out.
TennisFan3
Talk Tennis Guru
I think it was pretty clear that Nadal was fatiguing badly from 4th set ownwards. He didn't show it, but it was plain. His groundies started landing short. He was late on his footwork. The explosiveness of the first step came down, so he would be late and out of position especially when changing direction. Nadal had ramped up to a high level in set 3. If he had not been tired in set 4, the match would have been over then. No excuses at all, it was Nadal's problem that he played so much before, so that he got tired.
I was pleasantly surprised by Thiem. Played far above his usual level and didn't tire nor waver. Very impressive.
I'm personally not so sure about Nadal's chances against Delpo. Last year, he was playing much better in the UsOpen. This year, his serve has just been weak. He cannot consolidate breaks. Keeps on getting under pressure on his serve almost each game, and that effects the rest of his ground game as well. He hardly gets ANY service winners or aces. He served like 2 in a close to 5 hour match. That is just ridiculous. Recall, how many free points he used to get on serve in 2013 and 2010.
Anyway, Delpo would be a tough nail for Rafa to crack. The Argentinian is stronger mentally than Thiem and also hits much bigger.
But regardless of what happens, even if Nadal gets through, Djoko will absolutely pulverize him in the final. Rafa would have a very very hard time holding serve against Djoko, when all of these other players are breaking him left and right.
icedevil0289
G.O.A.T.
I agree. I think the rest of his game is pretty much at the same level but he was serving much better last year and he was getting many free points on serve. This year he's hardly getting any.
Pheasant
Hall of Fame
Thiem showed the world how he shrank the gap between him and the greatest players out there. This will give him confidence. This feels a lot like the 2013 USO semi between Stan and Djokovic. Stan was 28 years old at the time and he pushed peak Djokovic to 5 tough sets.
Thiem reminds me of Stan in that he can bash the ball from both wings while also serving big. Thiem can hit through the best humans on a slow surface(Nadal on slow clay isn't human, he's a cyborg there). If he stays healthy, I see Thiem having a peak that mimics Stan's. And I like this kid. I am a fan of his. I don't like how the haters keep bashing Thiem. He is a very good player that has showed remarkable improvement lately. Also, it's disrespectful to Rafa. We need to give credit where credit is due. Rafa put forth yet another Herculean effort to scrape out a well-deserved victory. I have no idea how he keeps doing this. He is quite the beast physically. He is the type of athlete that could have played just about any sport with his massive physique.
We need to all appreciate this era. It is incredible what the Big 3 have accomplished. And there's no need to bash any of their accomplishments. Rafa deserved the 2017 USO title, along with all of his other titles. Rafa proved that last night and has proven this throughout his entire career. The same holds true for Federer and Djoker. They all earned their slam titles fair and square. Let's stop with the excuses and the bashing of others that are a threat just enjoy our favorite player's accomplishments. Because there is a ton of great moments to pick from when it comes to the Big 3. And Rafa isn't even close to being my favorite player. But I understand why he is a favorite for many. He's a class act and he's the ultimate warrior.
And lastly, I think that Thiem and eventually Khachanov will be tough obstacles for Rafa and Djoker. Khachanov has also improved immensely and he's still very young. And they also have a massive age advantage on Rafa. Rafa will have to continue to be the ultimate warrior if he hopes to pass Federer. This chase is yet another one that will have me on the edge of my seat. I really hope that Federer can somehow bag another slam. But if he doesn't and Rafa wins the slam count 21-20, then I will concede the argument. Rafa will have earned the title.
Thiem reminds me of Stan in that he can bash the ball from both wings while also serving big. Thiem can hit through the best humans on a slow surface(Nadal on slow clay isn't human, he's a cyborg there). If he stays healthy, I see Thiem having a peak that mimics Stan's. And I like this kid. I am a fan of his. I don't like how the haters keep bashing Thiem. He is a very good player that has showed remarkable improvement lately. Also, it's disrespectful to Rafa. We need to give credit where credit is due. Rafa put forth yet another Herculean effort to scrape out a well-deserved victory. I have no idea how he keeps doing this. He is quite the beast physically. He is the type of athlete that could have played just about any sport with his massive physique.
We need to all appreciate this era. It is incredible what the Big 3 have accomplished. And there's no need to bash any of their accomplishments. Rafa deserved the 2017 USO title, along with all of his other titles. Rafa proved that last night and has proven this throughout his entire career. The same holds true for Federer and Djoker. They all earned their slam titles fair and square. Let's stop with the excuses and the bashing of others that are a threat just enjoy our favorite player's accomplishments. Because there is a ton of great moments to pick from when it comes to the Big 3. And Rafa isn't even close to being my favorite player. But I understand why he is a favorite for many. He's a class act and he's the ultimate warrior.
And lastly, I think that Thiem and eventually Khachanov will be tough obstacles for Rafa and Djoker. Khachanov has also improved immensely and he's still very young. And they also have a massive age advantage on Rafa. Rafa will have to continue to be the ultimate warrior if he hopes to pass Federer. This chase is yet another one that will have me on the edge of my seat. I really hope that Federer can somehow bag another slam. But if he doesn't and Rafa wins the slam count 21-20, then I will concede the argument. Rafa will have earned the title.
Meles
Bionic Poster
I don't think he's too disturbed with the match. Thiem was hilariously nonchalantly chomping food walking off the court. I really think he's fine with the loss and just trying to play up the sting of defeat, because it would kill some great players. Bottom line is Thiem had his most horrific post RG to US Open stretch ever coming into this event and was able to play himself into very good form here, but he was still not hitting on all cylinders believe it or not. I'd say net play and a couple of the overhead misses were quite rusty. Thiem was like 11 of 25 at the net earlier in the match before finishing at 60%. The first bad overhead miss was definitely rust and he was a tad shaky to my eyes on every overhead.
TennisFan3
Talk Tennis Guru
He is trying to place the ball, but his serve has no pace. Also if you watch the patterns carefully, his usually BODY serve and the one that comes in fast to the forehand of both sides of the court, are not effective enough. Mainly because he doesn't have enough confidence nor does he generate enough pace. Those were also big weapons for Rafa. There is a 8-10 mph 1st serve speed difference in Nadal of 2018 UsOpen vs Nadal of 2013 and even more vs Nadal of 2010.
I don't know what the strategy of the Nadal camp is or if there is a physical issue. But clearly the slow serving of clay, is not working for Rafa anywhere really. He is just getting broken all the time, cannot consolidate breaks and puts a lot of pressure on the rest of his ground game. Also his ROS is just getting worse. He had to go all the way back (clay style) to return Thiem's serve. When he was standing up in set 1, he could hardly get any serves back in play.
So yeah, Rafa will have it very tough against Delpo or Djokovic. Especially if he gets to Djokovic, who used to even break Rafa when he was serving well. With this serving performance, I don't know how Nadal will manage to hold at all against Novak.
Meles
Bionic Poster
It was a difficult enough overhead, but Thiem should have made it. A bit rusty on the overhead in this match and I'd warrant a bit tired and it goes wide. This match deserved that shot to be made, but an appropriate ending perhaps.
On a much faster court you may add..
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