2018 US Open SF - Rafael Nadal (1) vs JM Del Potro (3)

Who wins?


  • Total voters
    147

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
That's an absurd statement. Nadal fares way better against Thiem on a slow court than on fast conditions like Madrid where Thiem can blast winners all over the place.

Maybe, but a slow HC or clay also brings Thiem's fitness into the equation, and he is probably the player currently best-equipped to grind out a long 5-setter on a slow court.

Also consider that a faster HC might not give him as much time on his BH, think Wawrinka. That's not a problem for Rafa since his BH is arguably his stronger side.

At this point in a Thiem-Rafa match, Rafa is probably the one who wants to keep the points short. He won that match simply by being a smarter player when it counted.
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
Maybe, but a slow HC or clay also brings Thiem's fitness into the equation, and he is probably the player currently best-equipped to grind out a long 5-setter on a slow court.

Also consider that a faster HC might not give him as much time on his BH, think Wawrinka. That's not a problem for Rafa since his BH is arguably his stronger side.

At this point in a Thiem-Rafa match, Rafa is probably the one who wants to keep the points short. He won that match simply by being a smarter player when it counted.
Sorry but Thiem is ANYTHING but a grinder. That's why he's so hopeless vs Rafa at RG. Thiem is the ultimate ball basher. His best chance is to blow his opponent off the court. That's what he did in Madrid.
ETA: and he did it in first set at USO but when Nadal raised his level, he couldn't sustain it. It's when it becomes a war of attrition that Nadal has the upper hand.
 
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Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
Sorry but Thiem is ANYTHING but a grinder. That's why he's so hopeless vs Rafa at RG. Thiem is the ultimate ball basher. His best chance is to blow his opponent off the court. That's what he did in Madrid.

Hmm, I feel like we're not really disagreeing. I just think he's the fittest guy on tour, and my issue with him is his strategy/shot selection. Maybe that's what he needs to become a real grinder and not just a ball-basher?
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
Hmm, I feel like we're not really disagreeing. I just think he's the fittest guy on tour, and my issue with him is his strategy/shot selection. Maybe that's what he needs to become a real grinder and not just a ball-basher?
Nadal is way better than Thiem at the grinding game. I'm not talking vs other players in general. I'm talking about the Thiem/Nadal matchup specifically.
 

Tennisgods

Hall of Fame
Hm. Do me a favor. Own your own business. Your question will answer itself.

Have tons of people depending on you for salary, commission, and profit sharing. Have companies depending on you for partnership. Have 12 month plans already set into motion which involve hundreds of people.

Then come back and ask yourself why someone might want to see if they can limp along a bit longer or give themselves a bit more time.

The answer should be clear.

I don’t think the two situations are in any way comparable.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
That's an absurd statement. Nadal fares way better against Thiem on a slow court than on fast conditions like Madrid where Thiem can blast winners all over the place.

Thiem is a bonafide CC specialist, Nadal is not. Thiem might have a better chance on faster clay but any kind of fast HC and I'd favour Nadal heavily.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Thiem was points away from SF at USO for two years in a row, the mud slow court they used for the last two years helped him tremendously.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Kneedal retires from injury AGAIN
He won't have a knee left to walk with if he keeps playing every tournament all year like this.

Squeezing every last ounce of strength and endurance from his body in order to continue his gladiator style game comes at a cost. I don't want to see him in a wheelchair at 40, so for your own sake Rafa....please protect your health over all else!
Nadal hasn't played a lot of tennis. He has played even less tennis than Federer and he has still got injured twice.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
He looks like Bane. He's even more ripped now than he was in 2008.

Still, the sleeveless look was for Nadal as the young challenger. Nadal the champion needs something more classy, like USO10 or Miami/MC 11-esque outfits (this year's clay, RG, and Toronto kits too)
It has been a decade since Nadal last won a slam in sleeveless form.
 

AndyM

Legend
Can we please talk about the final that's what this red was made for who has the advantage with the cool conditions and a closed roof
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Well, that's not REALLY an answer, is it?

Who cares how mad yall are that hes a beast on clay? (which is clearly easier for him to move on) but forget about common sense. Take the win and be happy instead of clowning a legend of the sport. You couldnt get to 30 all on one of his service games on HC if you had all day to do it.
 

Feather

Legend
Thiem is a bonafide CC specialist, Nadal is not. Thiem might have a better chance on faster clay but any kind of fast HC and I'd favour Nadal heavily.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Thiem was points away from SF at USO for two years in a row, the mud slow court they used for the last two years helped him tremendously.

I was thinking the same thing when watching the match. I was wondering what would have happened if Roger were there instead of Rafa.. I always wanted Roger to win 6th but now I think that he will not even reach the SF there again...
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Thiem is a bonafide CC specialist, Nadal is not. Thiem might have a better chance on faster clay but any kind of fast HC and I'd favour Nadal heavily.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Thiem was points away from SF at USO for two years in a row, the mud slow court they used for the last two years helped him tremendously.

I was saying the court was slow at the start, but a couple of Nadal fans took it personally in the sense that it was imply Nadal will win because cannot win on faster courts. Look at how it unfolded. I'd like to see anyone tell me that is a fast hard court. It hasn't been fast in a very long time.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
I was thinking the same thing when watching the match. I was wondering what would have happened if Roger were there instead of Rafa.. I always wanted Roger to win 6th but now I think that he will not even reach the SF there again...

Fed's chances at USO have come and gone, last slam in the season (keeping in mind that Fed stubbornly played the full schedule until he was 35) coupled with very slow court just doesn't work for him. 2015 USO was his last shot and he probably knew it deep down as well. That said, he did make up for it at AO in the last two years with the faster conditions there and him being fresh at the start of the season. It's the way things go in tennis sometimes especially in this era which has seen so many surface tampering behind the curtains.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
I was saying the court was slow at the start, but a couple of Nadal fans took it personally in the sense that it was imply Nadal will win because cannot win on faster courts. Look at how it unfolded. I'd like to see anyone tell me that is a fast hard court. It hasn't been fast in a very long time.

Do you think Nadal was bothered by shot clock/time rule as well? Might have taken some energy from him, he didn't have the same recovery period after points.
 

Goldie

Rookie
Guess Nadal does not have much respect for paying customers. This is the second time he loses 2 sets and quits, comment on TSN was he said he was not going to win anyway, so he quits! Time for him to retire, to many injuries, and just better players on tour these days. His time has passed.
 

TenS_Ace

Professional
Guess Nadal does not have much respect for paying customers. This is the second time he loses 2 sets and quits, comment on TSN was he said he was not going to win anyway, so he quits! Time for him to retire, to many injuries, and just better players on tour these days. His time has passed.
I guess you didn't watch any of his matches this week, looks to me like he left it all on court :D
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Do you think Nadal was bothered by shot clock/time rule as well? Might have taken some energy from him, he didn't have the same recovery period after points.

Yes, to an extent, because you can see it was on his mind between points. Anytime something out of his control would be taking seconds away from him, he gestured to the umpire to not penalize him for it. So it was on his mind, but I don't think it was significant enough to cause the problem. Most of Nadal's time taken between points is him taking his time, not always about recovery, the rule was never truly enforced, so Nadal was just stuck in his ways and mannerisms. He even would do it at the coin toss.

What contributed to his downfall was the conditions, suffocating oppressive conditions of Ashe, with all the heat and humidity, coupled with the slow surface which allowed the ball to sit up and be hit by his opponents. If you look at his 3rd, 4th and Quarters match, his opponent quite often had plenty of time to take a big swipe at the ball. I noticed due to humidity, the ball wasn't bouncing as violently up over his opponents as Nadal would have liked, it bounced high, but not with the same acceleration.

I also do think Nadal's form was a little overrated coming in, which again was irritating some Nadal fans when I said it. He was very lucky not to be blown off the court by Cilic in Toronto, had Cilic not done his usual mental walkabout, Nadal had no answer to his game. He had to wait for Cilic to come back down, and used his grit to get the better of Cilic. Apart from the final against a player who had beaten a record four top ten players on route to the final, Nadal didn't look that amazing, yet so many Nadal fans were expecting him to rock up and put a beatdown in NYC. Why? Because Nadal would be supermotivated after Wimbledon, he would want revenge on Djokovic etc etc etc. I said he is not the fav, but at best joint fav with Djokovic, I refused to put him as the guy who stood above the others. I think some of his fans were under the impression that USO is Nadal's house now, like RG, he is man who owns it, I have never agreed with that. USO has never been Nadal's backyard, it has been a great event for him, but he was never dominating it the way Federer did from 04-08. And for the record, had Nadal somehow made the final, Djokovic would have beat him quite convincingly here.
 

Feather

Legend
I was saying the court was slow at the start, but a couple of Nadal fans took it personally in the sense that it was imply Nadal will win because cannot win on faster courts. Look at how it unfolded. I'd like to see anyone tell me that is a fast hard court. It hasn't been fast in a very long time.

You nailed it. I watched the last four sets of Thiem Rafa match. Thiem was struggling to hit winners with such huge shots. I felt it was damn slow.
 
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Deleted member 77403

Guest
You nailed it. I watched the last four sets of Thiem Rafa match. Thiem was struggling to hit winners with such huge shots. I felt it was damn slow.

The funny thing is how certain posters got all worked up when I said it was slow, and I agree with what Federer is saying, since they are out there and know better than all of us because unlike us, they actual play on it and have a feel for what that court was like before to what it is like now.
 

Feather

Legend
Yes, to an extent, because you can see it was on his mind between points. Anytime something out of his control would be taking seconds away from him, he gestured to the umpire to not penalize him for it. So it was on his mind, but I don't think it was significant enough to cause the problem. Most of Nadal's time taken between points is him taking his time, not always about recovery, the rule was never truly enforced, so Nadal was just stuck in his ways and mannerisms. He even would do it at the coin toss.

What contributed to his downfall was the conditions, suffocating oppressive conditions of Ashe, with all the heat and humidity, coupled with the slow surface which allowed the ball to sit up and be hit by his opponents. If you look at his 3rd, 4th and Quarters match, his opponent quite often had plenty of time to take a big swipe at the ball. I noticed due to humidity, the ball wasn't bouncing as violently up over his opponents as Nadal would have liked, it bounced high, but not with the same acceleration.

I also do think Nadal's form was a little overrated coming in, which again was irritating some Nadal fans when I said it. He was very lucky not to be blown off the court by Cilic in Toronto, had Cilic not done his usual mental walkabout, Nadal had no answer to his game. He had to wait for Cilic to come back down, and used his grit to get the better of Cilic. Apart from the final against a player who had beaten a record four top ten players on route to the final, Nadal didn't look that amazing, yet so many Nadal fans were expecting him to rock up and put a beatdown in NYC. Why? Because Nadal would be supermotivated after Wimbledon, he would want revenge on Djokovic etc etc etc. I said he is not the fav, but at best joint fav with Djokovic, I refused to put him as the guy who stood above the others. I think some of his fans were under the impression that USO is Nadal's house now, like RG, he is man who owns it, I have never agreed with that. USO has never been Nadal's backyard, it has been a great event for him, but he was never dominating it the way Federer did from 04-08. And for the record, had Nadal somehow made the final, Djokovic would have beat him quite convincingly here.

Awesome post as usual from you!

Exactly, US Open was never Rafa's backyard. Some of the Rafa fans were talking about head to head with Novak Djokovic as one reason he can be a favorite above Novak Djokovic. I always felt that head to head was more due to the circumstances. If Roger Federer had hit a winner in 2010 SF when he had match points, or if Rafa hasn't lost from two sets up against Fognini in 2015, the head to head had been 2-1 in favor of Novak Djokovic. Needless to mention the three times Novak played Rafa, Novak was coming after huge battles with either Roger or Wawrinka. Even last year del Potro was exhausted after the first set against Rafa. I tend to think Rafa was lucky at US Open and unlucky at AO (various injuries) and ultimately it evens out.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Awesome post as usual from you!

Exactly, US Open was never Rafa's backyard. Some of the Rafa fans were talking about head to head with Novak Djokovic as one reason he can be a favorite above Novak Djokovic. I always felt that head to head was more due to the circumstances. If Roger Federer had hit a winner in 2010 SF when he had match points, or if Rafa hasn't lost from two sets up against Fognini in 2015, the head to head had been 2-1 in favor of Novak Djokovic. Needless to mention the three times Novak played Rafa, Novak was coming after huge battles with either Roger or Wawrinka. Even last year del Potro was exhausted after the first set against Rafa. I tend to think Rafa was lucky at US Open and unlucky at AO (various injuries) and ultimately it evens out.

I think we will hear less about that 2-1 H2H after what happened during the semis.

And I agree with your bit in the bold.
 

tenisdecente

Hall of Fame
And dont forget Rogers Cup where if it wasn't for Cilic choking he wouldn't have won the tournament.Nadal was lucky to go to the SF here.It wasn't a great tournament for him

Yeah, that too. He was being trolled by Cilic, and when Marin arrived to the usual "I am going to poo, I cant beat Nadal" the match was downhill for the Croatian
 

britam25

Hall of Fame
He always tries to disrupt his opponent's rhythm by walking slowly and taking long breaks during points. If you watch the USO 09 finals, or any of his major matches, it is very transparent. Majority of the board calls him Del Possum because of his acting skills. He pretends like he is about to collapse in matches only to be able to play for another 2-3 hours.

I do love his FH though and he has a good chance to win this title. Djokovic is playing fantastic though and is the favorite as expected.

Although the receiver is supposed to play at the server's pace, a lot of players try to slow down servers who often serve quickly, such as Serena and Fed(like Pova's little back turn and walking away for a little pep talk), especially when the server starts cracking aces, but, to each his own on that point. As far as looking tired, to me that's ALSO to each his own, the tactic being the opposite of Laver's advice to walk briskly to the chair at 5-4 in the 5th set, to show the opponent that you're fresh as a daisy. However, Delpo is apparently a(unwitting) disciple of NFL football great Jim Brown, who used to ALWAYS get up slowly from being tackled and walk back to the huddle slowly as well, only to run over several tacklers on the very next play. He said, if you always bounced up when you're ok, and got up slowly when hurt, the defensive players smelled blood in the water(and they already had a tendency to try and "give him the business" to try and get him out of the game, but, since he never missed a SINGLE game in his 9 year career, that obviously didn't work too well). There's no doubt that players sometimes try to assess their opponent's condition, so, why not always move slowly and keep 'em guessing, lol?
 
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West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
There still aren't many of them for that to be an issue.

And I still don't buy that faster conditions always help a guy like Isner. He needs a high bounce for the ball to be in his wheel zone.
We can agree to disagree. And I’ll add more of what I’m thinking:

First off your Isner example is a 1 off. What I’m thinking - if you add 5 mph (arbitrary number) to everyone’s serve the overall quality of returns will drop - and outside of Djokovic, Murray, Nishikori there aren’t that many great returners. And don’t just think aces - if returns start dropping shorter it’s that much easier to ‘one - two’ someone to death.

I certainly want things sped up a little; but it should be done very, very gradually to avoid going too far (like they did slowing the surfaces down).
 

britam25

Hall of Fame
I have a feeling this has created a bit of PR problem for tennis. One announcer heard it and discussed it, the other was telling him to pipe down.
Yeah, I happened to be channel surfing on the Tennis Channel at the very moment where Jim Courier said, "Uh-oh, Nadal(while complaining about something completely unrelated), just admitted that he's gonna retire from the match." I was like, WHAT?!?! It's weird how, on some shows, one can rewind the whole program, and on some, only a few seconds, and, unfortunately, this was the latter. I guess he was gonna wait to see if Delpo dropped dead, but, all in all, not a good idea to verbalize that.
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
Yeah, I happened to be channel surfing on the Tennis Channel at the very moment where Jim Courier said, "Uh-oh, Nadal(while complaining about something completely unrelated), just admitted that he's gonna retire from the match." I was like, WHAT?!?! It's weird how, on some shows, one can rewind the whole program, and on some, only a few seconds, and, unfortunately, this was the latter. I guess he was gonna wait to see if Delpo dropped dead, but, all in all, not a good idea to verbalize that.

Absolutely, and It's not hard to see a connection between that and what happened in the women's final today.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Thiem is a bonafide CC specialist, Nadal is not. Thiem might have a better chance on faster clay but any kind of fast HC and I'd favour Nadal heavily.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Thiem was points away from SF at USO for two years in a row, the mud slow court they used for the last two years helped him tremendously.

Thiem was eliminated in 4R of USO 2017, not QF.

This year's QF was his first QF in a non-RG slam.
 
D

Deleted member 756486

Guest
Thiem was eliminated in 4R of USO 2017, not QF.

This year's QF was his first QF in a non-RG slam.
Expecting big things from Domi at RG next year. Time for Thiem to take that big step. ;)
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Expecting big things from Domi at RG next year. Time for Thiem to take that big step. ;)
Nah, he is useless there against Nadal like everyone else.

How many times have we said in the past when the FO commenced that "this is Fed's year" or "this is Novak's year"? It never turned out well for them. It's now happening to Thiem too.

The FO every year is pretty much like the exams session during college. You're never excited for it.
 
D

Deleted member 756486

Guest
Nah, he is useless there against Nadal like everyone else.

How many times have we said in the past when the FO commenced that "this is Fed's year" or "this is Novak's year"? It never turned out well for them. It's now happening to Thiem too.

The FO every year is pretty much like the exams session during college. You're never excited for it.
I will continue to hope and get hyped for Thiem. Once you jump onto the Meles bandwagon there’s no getting out.

Thiem takin it to the top I tell ya.
 

Poisoned Slice

Bionic Poster
They will kiss the Dominator's ring eventually. :cool:

yeah.jpg
 

TearTheRoofOff

G.O.A.T.
Who cares how mad yall are that hes a beast on clay? (which is clearly easier for him to move on) but forget about common sense. Take the win and be happy instead of clowning a legend of the sport. You couldnt get to 30 all on one of his service games on HC if you had all day to do it.

Bless, this useless sh%t has made internet comments a joke for over a decade; it's embarrassing that it's still such a prevalent retort.
 
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