2018 USO Womens Final : ThisMama Serena Williams vs Japanese Queen Naomi Osaka

Pick the USO WTA 18 winner


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Soianka

Hall of Fame
so are we still supposed to pretend that this creature is a gift to tennis and must not be criticized or questioned because it's sexist, racist, elitist, butthurt coz fav player lost,etc to do so? It's bad enough that people cannot even ask questions without her getting all sensitive and pulling these stupid antics on and off court. Glad she lost.

P.S why was the drug test thread of a few months ago deleted?

Calling her a 'creature' certainly tells us something about you.
 

Mr.Lob

G.O.A.T.
Someone else said it looked like he was saying play the middle of the court. That's what it looked like to me and he did have his thumbs up. It didn't look like him telling her to move forward.

Serena looked in his direction for a fraction of a second as shown in camera. Doubtful she got any meaningful info from him that quickly.

Its likely she thought he was giving her the thumbs up as she said and was confused by the unusual coaching warning.

This is a woman who doesn't even use on court coaching when it's available.

Its amazing all the sinister motives ascribed to Serena by some people here.

Patrick said he coaches from the stands like 100% of the coaches do 100% of the time. So, not sure where this , "I don't cheat" stuff is coming from.
 

Soianka

Hall of Fame
Patrick said he coaches from the stands like 100% of the coaches do 100% of the time. So, not sure where this , "I don't cheat" stuff is coming from.

Patrick can make gestures all day. If Serena isn't looking at him and doesn't have specified predetermined hand signals that doesnt make Serena a cheater.

It just makes Patrick human.
 

Gizo

Hall of Fame
So the 4 grand slam champions this year have been Wozniacki, Halep, Kerber and Osaka. I'm pretty neutral towards those first 3 players, but I was very happy to see Wozniacki and Halep finally crossing the finishing line and winning their first majors (this year's women's AO tournament was incredible), and for Kerber to win another major at a 3rd different venue no less to show that 2016 wasn't a flash in the pan.

And I've become an Osaka fan since I saw her play Venus at Wimbledon and beat Kerber at the US Open last year, so I'm delighted with her success. She my favourite WTA player alongside Caroline Garcia. She was cool and calm under pressure, served very well and expertly transitioned between attack and defence from the baseline. She beat the in-form Sabalenka in the 4th round before her convincing victories over Keys and Serena in the semis and final; an impressive way to win a first grand slam title.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
If people were determined to coach, they'd instruct an accomplice next to them to issue coded signals.

He engaged in 'irrational exuberance', without doubt, but there should be a better way of managing this situation other than an accusation of cheating.

Why isn't the first code violation, in any event, directed at the coach?

A violation that would result in a hearing and punishment after the match and would presumably stop him or her from further coaching in the match.

Patrick can make gestures all day. If Serena isn't looking at him and doesn't have specified predetermined hand signals that doesnt make Serena a cheater.

It just makes Patrick human.
 

70後

Hall of Fame
Speaking of hand gestures and coaching from the stands, Peter Graf did that a LOT.

How about Henin's hand gestures?
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
I am seeing the 2nd set.. and yea, if it wasn't for that GAME penalty , the set would have been tied.......... and it is possible that Serena could have comeback and won the match.......................LOL

No. Osaka was preparing to serve 4-3 before that game penalty, which then made it 5-3.
Without that penalty, Osaka still likely holds her serve to go up 5-3 and likely wins the second set.
Note also Serena is 2-9 when losing first set of a slam.
 
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PDJ

G.O.A.T.
I believe her. He's an ******* trying to cover his butt now. "Oh we have signals, oh, others do it too..." just shut up.

If she was dependent on coaching at all, she would have him on the court here and there in Miami, or IW or Montreal or Cincy (where it's allowed)....but we never see him come out, do we, because she. Doesn't Need. Him.

And she didn't need him tonight either.
She may not have needed her tennis Coach, but she could have used some anger management.
 

PDJ

G.O.A.T.
Just got in and saw what happen in the women's finals on the highlights above!
I was not sure what to think of it and watch it two times over and I agree with
the referee. Serena should of not thrown a tantrum like a little child does over
one point being awarded. Serena was out of control and kept complaining for
about 5-7 minutes additionally with the two senior officials too! I feel this is
another of Serena black marks on her on court tennis character that people
will remember for a long time.

The award ceremony is shown above!

Glad to see a young up and coming WTA tour player win her first GS title!
How can people watch the Award Ceremony and not be mortified?
A "role model"??? For whom?
The crowd wouldn't be out of place at the Colloseum with Serena fiddling as Rome burns.
And poor Osaka. Just disgraceful for HER moment to become about Serena...
Still, David beat Goliath...

Upside, Chris Evert gets first row seat on seeing her joint record of 6 US crowns not bettered.

Every cloud....
 

JadeC

Hall of Fame
Just watched the replay. Oh, boy. All the craziness aside, Naomi played well and kept her composure through all that was happening. Completely outplayed Serena. I'm so proud of her.

The crowd booing is seriously just disrespectful. Good on Serena for ending that. The focus should be on Naomi's win. Congratulations to Naomi!

I think it's cute that she was so confused when they handed her the trophy, haha. She didn't know what to do. Then later, she was going to carry her own bag out, until the guy came over and told her to carry her trophy and he'll carry her bag. Such a newbie, ha. She'll get used to it soon enough though. I see more slams in her future.
 

barone

Rookie
Wrong, you’re assuming Osaka was not going to hold her serve, she was already up a break.

I agree
Serena was taken a returngame in penalty, not a servicegame. Thats a huge difference depending on how the match had looked so far. Serena would not likely have brooken back. I think the penalty didnt effect the match outcome.
 
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Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

Talk Tennis Guru
41312273_1806548702797117_8359894803596443648_n.jpg
 

Xfimpg

Professional
why didn't the refree step in and take back the game penalty ?? he has the authority to do that

If they were to do that, they would create a precedent and going forwards players would be demanding overturn of rulings to no end.
That is why referee's never change their rulings, with the exception being the replay video for line calls.
 

Xfimpg

Professional
Did you guys catch at the trophy ceremony that Serena realized how dejected Naoimi was and decided, oh crap, I might be the bad guy here, better do damage control! Naomi couldn’t even smile, she looked like she wanted to be anywhere but there and actually apologized for winining.

The strangest thing is that Serena created this entire demise. After that coaching violation, she was the one that was provoking, and the ump was just responding. She knows that she needs to focus on the things that she can control, right! She shouldn’t have even internalized the cosching violation because she made her point that she doesn’t cheat pretty succinctly. Okay, done. Move on. Nobody in the crowd thought she was a cheater, but she went off the rails about it. Somehow she managed to make the ending all about her... it’s like she decided.. game over, but I will be the moral victor!

"Did you guys catch at the trophy ceremony that Serena realized how dejected Naoimi was and decided, oh crap, I might be the bad guy here, better do damage control!"

Yep. She decided to be the good person then and there, AND make the referee the bad guy, who was only doing his job.
 

Xfimpg

Professional
Hey, am I the only one up this morning??
I think everyone here has had enough ad nauseum of all this Serena Williams business.
 

Xfimpg

Professional
Ok, one more... I find it quite hilarious when the ESPN commentators (Ugggg) comment that Serena figures things out on her own (so no coaching) when she's behind on the score.

Well, it's a very simple recipe; she's makes less mistakes and pounds her way through the opponent, with a few visits at net here and there.

Not too much mystery in that.
 

Rogfan

Professional
The match, moment and the day should be about Naomi Osaka. I watched the entire press con and she’s more than adorable! A super cool little girl who knows how to handle pressure and expectations already. Not to mention her tennis! I’m not following her but I watched quite a bit of her matches at Hopman Cup because she was in the same group as the Swiss team. Thought she has huge talent and didn’t anticipate she’d win a slam this year. Well done Naomi!
 
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Xfimpg

Professional
No! I'm loving it!!!
Mean, I know, but all publicity is good publicity as far as Serena Reality Show Williams is concerned.

Oh yeah. Did you get the part yesterday during her meltdown, when she was stating that here she was fighting for women's rights and pregnant women and that they were doing this to her because she was a woman???

Uhhhhhhh, that is so bad. Of course, she failed to mention that she was playing another WOMAN. And the last we heard Naomi isn't Transgendered.

And in concluding, Your Honor, what in the world does fighting for women's rights have to do with a women's tennis match??

I rest my case. LOL
 

Xfimpg

Professional
Its a tennis board, but its never been anything but "light". This is the same board where the member I responded to once posted "I hope she die" line about Serena (years ago, and the thread deleted, and yes, he will deny it), and others have called for Serena to be imprisoned, referred to her a "gorilla" and a criminal. This is what this "light" tennis board produced.

Bah, just ignore it. For sure there's a lot of people out there using "bad" words... but they are just that, only words.
I'm personally coming back from terminal cancer (and winning) so this stuff is small peanuts, theatre popcorn stuff. Like a spec of dust.
 

a10best

Legend
“I stood up for what I believed in. I stood up for what is right. Stay humble. That’s the lesson I learned from this.”
LOL
She then lied about not seeing him. She then said she did see him give a thumbs up. Everyone saw on the reply that Morataglou gave her a nod after his hand gesture to bring Naomi in to the net. She saw him as clear as day because what happened a point or two later was she brought Naomi in.
 

skyline

Legend
She then lied about not seeing him. She then said she did see him give a thumbs up. Everyone saw on the reply that Morataglou gave her a nod after his hand gesture to bring Naomi in to the net. She saw him as clear as day because what happened a point or two later was she brought Naomi in.

Other people here are interpreting his gestures as "hit down the middle" so I wouldn't say it's "clear as day" re: what he was saying and what she was taking him to be saying.

For that matter, I didn't at all think he was telling her to "bring Naomi to the net." I thought he was telling her to approach the net herself.
 

WYK

Hall of Fame
Someone else said it looked like he was saying play the middle of the court. That's what it looked like to me and he did have his thumbs up. It didn't look like him telling her to move forward.

Serena looked in his direction for a fraction of a second as shown in camera. Doubtful she got any meaningful info from him that quickly.

Its likely she thought he was giving her the thumbs up as she said and was confused by the unusual coaching warning.

This is a woman who doesn't even use on court coaching when it's available.

Its amazing all the sinister motives ascribed to Serena by some people here.

That's exactly what it's supposed to look like when a coach signals.

https://wwos.nine.com.au/tennis/ser...-us-open/f0a3e048-9017-489d-b8e0-e3e446b6cb23
 

Xfimpg

Professional
Other people here are interpreting his gestures as "hit down the middle" so I wouldn't say it's "clear as day" re: what he was saying and what she was taking him to be saying.

For that matter, I didn't at all think he was telling her to "bring Naomi to the net." I thought he was telling her to approach the net herself.

I'm not sure if it matters HOW the coaching is interpreted? Coaching is coaching, right.
 

skyline

Legend
I'm not sure if it matters HOW the coaching is interpreted? Coaching is coaching, right.

It matters in the context of his argument. He's saying "of course she saw and understood because she implemented his strategy." Whether or not she saw and implemented depends on the content of the coaching, no?

I saw him as saying "come to the net," which she did not do, and which to me is further proof that she didn't register what he was doing (which then sent her into rage after getting warned).
 

a10best

Legend
Other people here are interpreting his gestures as "hit down the middle" so I wouldn't say it's "clear as day" re: what he was saying and what she was taking him to be saying.

For that matter, I didn't at all think he was telling her to "bring Naomi to the net." I thought he was telling her to approach the net herself.
Either way, she did see him and coming to the net played a role in the next point or two was obvious. Her coach and Chris admitted it too. But why care so much about one call or violation? A 23-time slam winner doesn't need to focus on that for the next 5-6 games.
 

skyline

Legend
Either way, she did see him and coming to the net played a role in the next point or two was obvious. Her coach and Chris admitted it too. But why care so much about one call or violation? A 23-time slam winner doesn't need to focus on that for the next 5-6 games.

She saw him making gestures with his hands but it's debatable to say the least whether she understood what he was trying to tell her. Even you and I can't agree on what he was telling her; there's a pretty big difference between "make her come to the net" and "go to the net." Not the same at all.

Serena lost to Naomi in Miami too but I didn't see her call the coach for an on-court convo even tho it's permitted under the rules and I think it's pretty clear she prides herself on figuring things out in the middle of the match on her own. That's partially why it stung so much to get the violation.

As to focusing unduly, of course she shouldn't have focused on it. That's not debatable at all imo.
 

Rickenbacker4003

Hall of Fame
Patrick can make gestures all day. If Serena isn't looking at him and doesn't have specified predetermined hand signals that doesnt make Serena a cheater.

It just makes Patrick human.
But she DOES look at him and even if she doesn’t want to accept his signals, adjustments are always made in a match, especially if you’re losing. Whether or not it was a direct result of the signals is irrelevant.
 

Rickenbacker4003

Hall of Fame
What is it with you guys so annoyed with Serena branding herself as a mom?
Because she acts like she’s the only mom, only sporting mom in the world and we should give her special treatment for that. “Look at me, I’m a mom and I play tennis.”. She’s a millionaire and surely has like paid off 10 nannies to watch and handle her child. I have two kids so I know about what it takes to raise a child. But Kim Clijsters has a baby and then came back to win a major or two. She wasn’t making over the top commercials about it. ESPN wasn’t milking the story about Kim like they did with SW.
 

mcs1970

Hall of Fame
So it’s Ramos fault for calling out her coach for sending hand signals? It’s his fault that Serena obliterated her tennis racket after she was up 3-1 in the second set and now was losing 3-4? It’s Ramos’ fault that she had a nasty and disrespectful attitude towards the chair umpire of the women’s final? He didn’t need to fish for anything. It all happened in plain sight. Any argument SW had in her favor with that whole victim card went straight to the shltter when Patrick Mouragloutou admitted on live tv that HE DID coach illegally.

If you want to selectively cherry pick what Patrick M said to justify the penalty, then others can use his full quote to say why Ramos was trying to search for something that he could have left alone. A ref's job is to manage a game in a way where folks don't even notice he/she is there.

The 3rd penalty which was the most costly in terms of losing a whole game in a tightly contested 2nd set was totally unnecessary. You've had other players come out and say how they've been given a soft warning for much worse. Yep..it's not his fault that Serena was behaving like a hysterical baby just because Naomi was matching her punch for punch. It was his fault that instead of just ignoring that he decided to get all sensitive about being called a thief and without any further warning docked a crucial game. A noted ref like him should know better.

Also, as I mentioned, if the argument is that players should never argue with refs, then make the rules uniform and immediate so that players, no matter how famous, know that they will immediately get a conduct penalty anytime they argue. Totally fine with that. Don't just enforce it arbitrarily and randomly.
 

Tornes

Semi-Pro
There are plenty of other examples where players cursed out umpires, verbally abused them, etc. and didn't get a violation. My only thing is be consistent with it and not wait until a match of this caliber to do it. If this was Lahyani or another umpire who I have more respect for, I wouldn't bat an eye about it and say she got what deserved. End of story. But I know this guy is a pr**k and he has shown that multiple times, so his judgement is questionable.

Show me some.
 
Because she acts like she’s the only mom, only sporting mom in the world and we should give her special treatment for that. “Look at me, I’m a mom and I play tennis.”. She’s a millionaire and surely has like paid off 10 nannies to watch and handle her child. I have two kids so I know about what it takes to raise a child. But Kim Clijsters has a baby and then came back to win a major or two. She wasn’t making over the top commercials about it. ESPN wasn’t milking the story about Kim like they did with SW.

Did she or you just assume that she's act like "she’s the only mom, only sporting mom in the world and we should give her special treatment for that"
She’s a millionaire and surely has like paid off 10 nannies to watch and handle her child - You don't know that and nothing wrong to have nanny(es) if you can afford that.

That's too bad Kim did not making any commercial for it but so just because Kim did not Serena can't earn money for that?
 

a10best

Legend
She saw him making gestures with his hands but it's debatable to say the least whether she understood what he was trying to tell her. Even you and I can't agree on what he was telling her; there's a pretty big difference between "make her come to the net" and "go to the net." Not the same at all.

Serena lost to Naomi in Miami too but I didn't see her call the coach for an on-court convo even tho it's permitted under the rules and I think it's pretty clear she prides herself on figuring things out in the middle of the match on her own. That's partially why it stung so much to get the violation.

As to focusing unduly, of course she shouldn't have focused on it. That's not debatable at all imo.
I agree and said before that Serena doesn't need coaching (like the Warriors). She's figured it out so many times in the past 5 years. But she is older and Naomi is a far different server and baseliner than Kerber and Halep. She has not taken a set off Naomi in 2 meetings and is coached by Sascha.

This did give tennis more relevancy as controversial calls in sports is good for ratings.
Hopefully the AO will have them meet again.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Move forward to the net ... that's really helpful!

But in the second set, the match descended into chaos, all instigated by the slightest of hand gestures.

Let's be realistic here. Coaching should be about a bit more than this. If it were subterfuge the signal would also have been coded.

It could have been.
And no.
 

Ruark

Professional
How can people watch the Award Ceremony and not be mortified?
A "role model"??? For whom?

I was appalled at how Serena stole the limelight (what little was left of it!) from Osaka. At what should have been the happiest moment, when they went back to their benches after the last point, Serena was standing there right next to Osaka screaming at the umpire, while Osaka was in tears.

Then in the awards ceremony, the USTA prez's comments were bad enough, and then Serena gave her little speech - "we'll get through this...." and then holding her 2nd-place silver plate over her head and parading in front of everybody with it. I wanted to say, "uh, Serena, that's the 2nd place trophy, not the 1st place." When they finally handed Osaka the main trophy, she looked like she didn't even want it. Poor girl. I hope she can pull out of this and go forward with a great career.
 

Rickenbacker4003

Hall of Fame
If you want to selectively cherry pick what Patrick M said to justify the penalty, then others can use his full quote to say why Ramos was trying to search for something that he could have left alone. A ref's job is to manage a game in a way where folks don't even notice he/she is there.

The 3rd penalty which was the most costly in terms of losing a whole game in a tightly contested 2nd set was totally unnecessary. You've had other players come out and say how they've been given a soft warning for much worse. Yep..it's not his fault that Serena was behaving like a hysterical baby just because Naomi was matching her punch for punch. It was his fault that instead of just ignoring that he decided to get all sensitive about being called a thief and without any further warning docked a crucial game. A noted ref like him should know better.

Also, as I mentioned, if the argument is that players should never argue with refs, then make the rules uniform and immediate so that players, no matter how famous, know that they will immediately get a conduct penalty anytime they argue. Totally fine with that. Don't just enforce it arbitrarily and randomly.
What do you mean cherry pick?! This is THE STATEMENT that anyone needs in this whole ordeal. It makes Serena’s tirade basically pointless. She said she didn’t cheat, her coach is part of her team and admitted giving signals. So unless she’s stupid or a bad liar she has no leg to stand on for that argument SHE STARTED.
 
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