2018 Wimbledon - WTA general discussion

Who will win the 2018 Wimbledon tournament?


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I'm still impressed with Ostapenko.
I mean, she's by far the best young player we've had in generations.
Even if she loses here, her composure in the big stage is quite remarkable.

True. A lot of people hate her for being so inconsistent but what a remarkable achievement of a girl who's just 21 years old.

From her batch
Kasatkina: 2QF GS, 1PM finalist
Osaka: 1PM
Bencic: 1QF GS, 1P5
Konjuh: 1QF GS

Ostapenko: 1W, 1SF, 1QF GS, 1PM Finalist, 1P5 Finalist.
Clearly she outdone her generation so far.
 

Bill W

Rookie
There like ten Serena fans on this board. What's must be unbearable is watch Serena still winning.

Yes, it is truly unbearable. I won't watch any match she's in - unless she playing someone I do like, and even then it's dicey. I recall when the Williams sisters first came on to the scene. They were brash, obnoxious, and disrespectful. I never forgot that behavior. I am American and would never cheer for either one of them. Her results speak for themselves, but I am no fan.
 

Soianka

Hall of Fame
Yes, it is truly unbearable. I won't watch any match she's in - unless she playing someone I do like, and even then it's dicey. I recall when the Williams sisters first came on to the scene. They were brash, obnoxious, and disrespectful. I never forgot that behavior. I am American and would never cheer for either one of them. Her results speak for themselves, but I am no fan.

That is really sad. I feel sorry for you to harbor all of that ill will.

Irrationally hating 2 tennis players with 30 slams and counting must be torture for you lmao
 

Soianka

Hall of Fame
so Venus and Serena aren't playing dubs, right???

on ESPN right now, the window behind the desk, you can see some women's doubles match with some player that looks just like a Venus :eek:o_O
Edit -- it was the junior french open champ
 
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skyline

Legend
There like ten Serena fans on this board.

Yeah.

I'm not hugely into Rena army myself (mostly because they're casual tennis watchers, or don't watch at all, and it shows when they say anything about her matches - they don't know much, they just know they like and want to praise her), but this board doesn't suffer from that at all.
 

ausfrewimuso

Semi-Pro
Serena was asked something about the competition she has with Kerber I think following the Giorgi match or something along those lines, forgot her reply though.

Will be interesting if both play like they did today.
 

Bill W

Rookie
That is really sad. I feel sorry for you to harbor all of that ill will.

Irrationally hating 2 tennis players with 30 slams and counting must be torture for you lmao

Not irrational at all, there are very good reasons why I don't care for them. Not torture at all, I don't watch them play, and don't care how many slams they have won.
 

skyline

Legend
Not irrational at all, there are very good reasons why I don't care for them. Not torture at all, I don't watch them play, and don't care how many slams they have won.

If you don't care, I wonder why you take the trouble of taking sides in the final and hoping against hope (or whatever it is you said) that Kerber wins.

It's your God given right not to root for them, I'm certainly not going to argue over that - just saying it kinda sounds like you do care.
 

heftylefty

Hall of Fame
Yes, it is truly unbearable. I won't watch any match she's in - unless she playing someone I do like, and even then it's dicey. I recall when the Williams sisters first came on to the scene. They were brash, obnoxious, and disrespectful. I never forgot that behavior. I am American and would never cheer for either one of them. Her results speak for themselves, but I am no fan.

I think you may be projecting. But I understand, the Williams Sisters don't know their place in American Society. Some folks just won't walk around with their heads bowed and eyes casted to the ground...thank God!
 

Bill W

Rookie
If you don't care, I wonder why you take the trouble of taking sides in the final and hoping against hope (or whatever it is you said) that Kerber wins.

Simple (and it should be obvious based on my profile pic, but ok...) - because I am a fan of Kerber and I would like to see her win...it didn't matter who she was playing. It just happens to be Serena, that's all.
 

marc45

G.O.A.T.
Must say I thought Ostapenko would have been a tougher opponent for Kerber in their semi (actually fancied her for the final) but she didn't seem to play anything like she did against Cibulkova. Inconsistency or was she just up against a better class of opponent?

In any event, we now face a re-run of the 2016 final between Serena and Angie. Wonder if Angie will make it a bit tougher for Serena this time round, maybe so tough she could prevail?

By JON WERTHEIM

July 12, 2018

LONDON –

• Jelena Ostapenko is like the girl with the curl- When she’s good, she can be very, very good. But when she’s bad, she can be horrid. Today was, unfortunately for her, a case of the latter.

...........

Poems of Home: III. Fun for Little Folk
“There was a little girl”

Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (1807–1882)

THERE was a little girl,
And she had a little curl
Right in the middle of her forehead.
When she was good
She was very, very good,
And when she was bad she was horrid.....
 

skyline

Legend
Simple (and it should be obvious based on my profile pic, but ok...) - because I am a fan of Kerber and I would like to see her win...it didn't matter who she was playing. It just happens to be Serena, that's all.
i didn't recognize her. sorry.
 

DariusD

Rookie
I think you may be projecting. But I understand, the Williams Sisters don't know their place in American Society. Some folks just won't walk around with their heads bowed and eyes casted to the ground...thank God!

It's weird that other poster made a reference that when they came onto the scene they displayed typical teen behavior being they turned pro around 14? Other pros have displayed that same behavior. I just want a good final but it gets old when people hold the Williams to a standard other players aren't held to.
 

Russeljones

Talk Tennis Guru
Might be what @Russeljones said. Just like Scud or Rusedki's serves were much talked about on the men's side in the 90s. But were they better than Sampras? Not really. The media focuses too much on speed. I thought for consistency Serena was a touch better than Venus peak on peak and in her later years has definitely held onto more of her serve ability than Venus. Venus even loses her toss sometimes these days but Serena doesn't seem to have lost anything on the serve.
The ball toss was a disappointing regression in Venus's game, but for raw speed she remained one of the hardest hitters. Serena overtook her by combining all the elements of what makes a serve effective until she got to the point where she, arguably, has the best serve the women's game has ever seen.
 

skyline

Legend
Yeah, Venus's serve really hasn't held up as well. It misfires way too frequently these days. Serena can have off-serving days too, but not nearly as much as Venus. I'm guessing the perfection of her technique/motion is why her serve has withstood time.
 

skyline

Legend
Must say I thought Ostapenko would have been a tougher opponent for Kerber in their semi (actually fancied her for the final) but she didn't seem to play anything like she did against Cibulkova. Inconsistency or was she just up against a better class of opponent?

In any event, we now face a re-run of the 2016 final between Serena and Angie. Wonder if Angie will make it a bit tougher for Serena this time round, maybe so tough she could prevail?

She's not going to make it "tougher" because (1) she played as well as she ever does in that final (Kerber tends to produce her best tennis in GS finals, gotta respect that!), such that there isn't exactly room for improvement, and (2) I don't think her current form, although quite solid, is quite to the level she played at in 2016.

But, Serena is pretty unlikely to play as well as she did two years ago herself.

Prior to the semi, I said Kerber is the favorite for the title, and I think I've come around a little. I still don't think Serena is the clear favorite but based on the way she handled Goerges out there (quite routinely and in a businesslike manner, and Goerges is one of the circuit's top players right now), I don't see Angelique as the more likely winner either. Assuming Serea plays as well as she did today, it's really a 50-50 proposition.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Seriously, why all this hyperbole? You think you're going to send some loser vibes her way if you present her as someone who's bound to win everything everywhere all the time?

No, it's to continue his "Serena is bad for the sport" / "WTA sucks" screaming as seen in every WTA-related thread he enters.

That is really sad. I feel sorry for you to harbor all of that ill will.

It's more than just standard "ill will" for the level of that kind of unjustified hatred.

Irrationally hating 2 tennis players with 30 slams and counting must be torture for you lmao

It was fine when players like Hingis spat racial and other insults at the Williams sisters, or said Mauresmo looked "like a man", or when Capriati walked around with a despicable attitude, or Sharapova cursed out linespeople and spectators. Yep, it's only the young Williams sisters that earn lifelong hatred. After all, they were "wrong" from the start to some, and it has nothing to do with behavior.
 
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FakeEmpire

Professional
She's not going to make it "tougher" because (1) she played as well as she ever does in that final (Kerber tends to produce her best tennis in GS finals, gotta respect that!), such that there isn't exactly room for improvement, and (2) I don't think her current form, although quite solid, is quite to the level she played at in 2016.

I don't know if I agree with your first point. The only way Kerber wouldn't have room for improvement would be if she didn't commit any errors (either UFE or bad strategical options) in that match. And that obviously didn't happened. Is it hard for her to be better than she was back then? Yes, sure. But you can't affirm that was the pinnacle, because, in fairness, we can't know that for sure. I agree with the second without any reservation, though.
 

ACE of Hearts

Bionic Poster
Hoping desperately that Kerber wins this - she deserves it. She just needs to run Serena side to side until her wheels fall off.

Besides, the spike in Serena worship will be absolutely unbearable if she wins another major.

The match is on serena’s racquet. Serena superior grass player. Maybe Kerber can surprise us and take a set.
 

skyline

Legend
I don't know if I agree with your first point. The only way Kerber wouldn't have room for improvement would be if she didn't commit any errors (either UFE or bad strategical options) in that match. And that obviously didn't happened. Is it hard for her to be better than she was back then? Yes, sure. But you can't affirm that was the pinnacle, because, in fairness, we can't know that for sure. I agree with the second without any reservation, though.

I meant, in terms of what's realistic. In theory, you can always be better. But Kerber had low UFEs and didn't err much strategically. If you compare her 2016 W final stats to the 2016 AO final stats, you'll be amazed at how near-identical they are. In other words, she played the same high quality tennis in both finals and lost purely because Serena was on her game at Wimbledon.

I still think Kerber has a very good shot at winning but it's going to be difficult if Serena serves like she did today against Goerges.
 

skyline

Legend
All inadequacies of Serena's current form aside (because, yes, she's not at her best at all), it's still kind of odd that people think she could be beaten easily if "only someone moved her from side to side." Maybe it's not so easy to be in the position where you can move her side to side?

Serena's balls are heavy and if she's having a good serving day, she's using her serve to set up her shots (to speak nothing of putting in aces, service winners, etc.). And if the serve hits the spot, she'll be attacking as soon as the ball is returned, going for one-two punch and/or ending the rally early with a winner. You can't just "go move her side to side" when that's happening because you won't get the chance.

And even if she doesn't end it quickly, a ball as heavy as what she hits isn't so easily redirected.

I think everyone has the memo that she's not the best mover, that longer rallies don't favor her and that making her run is a good strategy. Cornet has talked about it (that is, said she beat her by moving her around), NYT's even had statistical breakdowns showing how much her chance of winning a point goes down if a rally lasts past x balls, etc.....so yeah I think the players are onto it.

They're not going out there and just doing it (hi nike!) because, among other things, it's just not all that easy to do when she isn't misfiring on her serve.

Her opponents up to Giorgi and Goerges weren't quality enough to beat her anyway, and Giorgi and Goerges don't move anyone side to side because they're about finishing points early themselves. So, she's had some luck with the draw. But, really.....if that was all it was, the tour would've savaged her a long time ago.
 

skyline

Legend
Yeah, just move her side-to-side people. :D
Easier said than done when you're not on the court on the receiving end of Serena's serve or one-two punch returns attack.

Right, lol.

Again, I'm the first to say her 4 matches were essentially gimmes (Mlad's not a gimme necessarily - but she's in poor form now) and her later two to players who bash the ball to eternity no matter who they play. This is really a more of a general comment.

If the solution was that simple and easy, Serena would've stopped winning slams a long time ago.

So, unless players are somehow living in a parallel universe where it's an unknown fact that S. isn't a great mover and doesn't like extended rallies, I'm guessing the reason she doesn't "get moved side to side" is because, well, it's easier said than done. :p
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
All inadequacies of Serena's current form aside (because, yes, she's not at her best at all), it's still kind of odd that people think she could be beaten easily if "only someone moved her from side to side." Maybe it's not so easy to be in the position where you can move her side to side?

Serena's balls are heavy and if she's having a good serving day, she's using her serve to set up her shots (to speak nothing of putting in aces, service winners, etc.). And if the serve hits the spot, she'll be attacking as soon as the ball is returned, going for one-two punch and/or ending the rally early with a winner. You can't just "go move her side to side" when that's happening because you won't get the chance.

And even if she doesn't end it quickly, a ball as heavy as what she hits isn't so easily redirected.

I think everyone has the memo that she's not the best mover, that longer rallies don't favor her and that making her run is a good strategy. Cornet has talked about it (that is, said she beat her by moving her around), NYT's even had statistical breakdowns showing how much her chance of winning a point goes down if a rally lasts past x balls, etc.....so yeah I think the players are onto it.

They're not going out there and just doing it (hi nike!) because, among other things, it's just not all that easy to do when she isn't misfiring on her serve.

Her opponents up to Giorgi and Goerges weren't quality enough to beat her anyway, and Giorgi and Goerges don't move anyone side to side because they're about finishing points early themselves. So, she's had some luck with the draw. But, really.....if that was all it was, the tour would've savaged her a long time ago.
I think depth is more effective against Serena than moving her side to side. The only player in recent times who did that was, again, Kerber in the AO 2016. But for that you need decent weight of shot that she won't be all over with high shot tolerance, a combination rarely found on the WTA.
 

skyline

Legend
I think depth is more effective against Serena than moving her side to side. The only player in recent times who did that was, again, Kerber in the AO 2016. But for that you need decent weight of shot that she won't be all over with high shot tolerance, a combination rarely found on the WTA.

That's probably true. I mean, it's a combination, I guess - you give her deep shots, you make her hit extra balls, you extend rallies as much as possible, you display variety instead of just battling from the baseline (to keep her off rhythm)....you do all these things as well as you can and as consistently as you can.

Point is, the winning formula is hard to execute. If it wasn't, she'd have been run off the tour a long time ago. They aren't (just) too intimidated, they also can't do it (too often) because it's, plain and simple, difficult to do.
 

FakeEmpire

Professional
I meant, in terms of what's realistic. In theory, you can always be better. But Kerber had low UFEs and didn't err much strategically. If you compare her 2016 W final stats to the 2016 AO final stats, you'll be amazed at how near-identical they are. In other words, she played the same high quality tennis in both finals and lost purely because Serena was on her game at Wimbledon.

I still think Kerber has a very good shot at winning but it's going to be difficult if Serena serves like she did today against Goerges.

But I wasn't talking about an idyllic zero mistakes state. At times, all it takes is two, three points at crunch times to change a whole match. Look no further than the Federer-Anderson match. And in that sense, it isn't unrealistic to think Kerber can improve upon what she has showed before. I'm not thinking about Serena's level in this abstraction, though, and that makes a world of difference.
 

70後

Hall of Fame
As for the final, I didn't expect Serena/Kerber rematch, even though it is in fact the best possible final and makes perfect sense in hindsight now that all the matches have been completed but one.
 

britam25

Hall of Fame
Yes, it is truly unbearable. I won't watch any match she's in - unless she playing someone I do like, and even then it's dicey. I recall when the Williams sisters first came on to the scene. They were brash, obnoxious, and disrespectful. I never forgot that behavior. I am American and would never cheer for either one of them. Her results speak for themselves, but I am no fan.

Ahh, but you like players who shriek in a none-too-subtle attempt to effect their opponent and employ other dubious tactics, I'm guessing?
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
I want to watch the Serena-Kerber final. It sure sounds more interesting than the Isner-Anderson SF.
If Serena serves the way she did vs Goerges, it could be tough for Kerber but Kerber is a fierce competitor so who knows what will happen.

I'd like to see Kerber take it but if Serena can win 24 that would also be amazing.
 

Vanhool

Hall of Fame
Remember that dude that swore Aga had a better career than Angie? Oh boy...
Back in 2012/13 I always thought Kerber was like a more athletic version of Radwanksa. Many of the same amazing gets and defense, but traded some cuteness/finesse for power and legit counterpunching. She could beat all the heavyhitters, even if they were playing well. It would just take so much out of her. She was knocking on the door of a slam, but couldn’t push it open. Dropping 10 pounds and dispelling some of her mental negativity was all it took. I was so sad at the 2017 dropoff because it made 2016 look like a fluke (which it wasn’t - it was a fruition). Congrats to Angie for achieving her number 1 lifetime goal of winning Wimbledon! :)
 

Vanhool

Hall of Fame
BTW, sorry to the other Serena fans. This is all my fault! :(
Setting my alarm. Can hardly wait! I really hope Serena wins. It would suck to get up early and watch her flop. I am hoping for a coronation of a trophy ceremony and lots of TTW butthurt. Of course, the last time I got this excited, she was attacked by her pigeon and had her eyes pecked out :(
I shouldn’t have let @ScentOfDefeat get in my head. I only went half in on the double jinx and now look what happened. Never again. I can’t...I won’t let it happen again.
 

skyline

Legend
^^^Nah, you didn't jinx her. She didn't serve lethally and she had to in order to win. Story of the match.

Hopefully she improves all around by NYC and isn't quite so serve-dependent when facing top level defenders.
 

Vanhool

Hall of Fame
^^^Nah, you didn't jinx her. She didn't serve lethally and she had to in order to win. Story of the match.

Hopefully she improves all around by NYC and isn't quite so serve-dependent when facing top level defenders.
It was the UEs I couldn’t bear :oops::eek::oops: I wouldn’t want her to serve her way to a win with the rest of her game looking like that (unless she was playing a scrub, then it might as well be her to win). I like and respect Angie, so I’m happy with the outcome.
 
It was the UEs I couldn’t bear :oops::eek::oops: I wouldn’t want her to serve her way to a win with the rest of her game looking like that (unless she was playing a scrub, then it might as well be her to win). I like and respect Angie, so I’m happy with the outcome.
Angie was always going to give Serena a workout, she has been playing really well all tournament,it's been a "hot" Wimbledon with the grass playing more like a hard court, as you say her game was not really there, she needed more, I don't think Serena will beat herself up over it, neither do I think Angie will feel she did not deserve it..she did
 
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