2019 ATP Final RR: [2] Novak Djokovic vs [3] Roger Federer

Who will reach semi final?


  • Total voters
    102
  • Poll closed .

mightyjeditribble

Hall of Fame
Fed can face zverev in semis.
It can happen only if
Zverev beats Medvedev in straight sets like 6-2 6-2 for eg.
Nadal beats tispitas in striaght sets.

Then all 3 tied up at 2 wins.
Tispitas and Zverev will have 4-2 set wins and progress. Nadal will have 4-3 and don't progress
Among tispitas and Zverev who ever has better game wins will be #1 of group
How often do we need to go through this? In case of two-way tie h2h decides. So Tsits would still win group ahead of Z. Game percentage won't come into it here.

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mightyjeditribble

Hall of Fame
At this point, I'll take it. A YEC is long overdue and we shouldn't expect majors from a 38 year old anyway.
He's not won yet, only made the semis. It's not going to be easy to win the tournament even with Djokodal out, he's not lost here to them in the past two years but to others.

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Meles

Bionic Poster
The roller coaster of being a Fed fan is something else. Sometimes, Federer can look horrendous. But today, he played his best match since 2017 IW, IMHO. Here’s why:

Federer’s return game was incredible today. Djoker got 74%of his first serves in. And yet, Federer returned a massive percentage of them. Federer likely had as many first-serve return winners as Djoker had aces. Fed’s return game was the best since 2017 IW

Federer used his backhand slice effectively to set up the backhand smash. Fed had a great mixture of backhand slice and backhand topspin smashes.

Fed’s forehand was quite accurate. This was vintage Fed here, except with less pace.

And lastly, Federer was in the single digits for unforced errors.

Fed’s overall game was incredible.

Now granted, Fed’s form at his old age can change on a dime. I expect nothing from Fed in the next match. I said the same thing at the USO going into the match with Dimitrov. But given his age, his performance today was a masterpiece. And I will take that. This tourney has been a success for Fed, regardless of what happens at the next match. That’s 16 semis in 17 appearance at this event.

Congrats to Fed for a big upset win. He played great.
We'll know next week during Davis Cup Finals just how bad the Djokovic injury to his elbow may be. The return numbers are too good to be true and frankly so were Thiem's. Proof will be in the pudding next week on how much Djokovic plays if at all. Djokovic said he had some pain in the match and then it was not a problem. And yet still discussed that he won't know for sure about Davis Cup for a few more days due to the elbow pain.:unsure:

Frankly Fed's play from IW (well really took off in Miami) through Wimbledon was unbelievablely superlative.

I'm not sure about the low pace of Fed's forehand. The camera angle is a bit compressed at the O2 and its makes everything look slower and spinnier than reality.

I've watched the practice courts this week and not one Fed session in the replays. I suspect he does not practice at all the week of the tournament to protect his back (Kyrgios never practices serve). He may hit off-site, but just to warm up a touch is my suspicion. I think his back and serve go hand in hand so great sign that he served well against Djokovic and has a day off before playing again on Saturday.:p
 

BeatlesFan

Talk Tennis Guru
Nole not @NoleFam said in press conference when asked that he like the atmosphere for the match.o_O
For all the Novak fans about the "hideous crowds," why not take a listen to your guy who actually was there?

"It was an important match, and I think every time I face Roger or Rafa anywhere in the world, it's a lot of excitement. So it was a full stadium, which was nice to see. It was loud. It was electric. You know, it was a good atmosphere."
 

Feather

Legend
Huh? That aint anywhere normal. This is not some one off thing. These are consistent rotten trash.
His own fans call him mental midget. I have seen some Roger fans saying Roger would have won X slams had be been not a mental midget. How moronic to call a 20 slam winner mental midget, choker etc..

I know it was a pretty bad lose for Roger Federer at 40-15, probably he may have choked but to call him a choker is nonsense. He has won so many matches, as recent as AO 2017 that too against Rafa, from the brinks of defeat. It's one thing to say Rafa or Novak is mentally stronger but to say Roger Federer is mentally weak is insane.

Have to say Roger has some truly irritating fans on this board.
 
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Federer and Del Potro

Talk Tennis Guru
His own fans call him mental midget. I have seen some Roger fans saying Roger would have won X slams had be been not a mental midget. How moronic to call a 20 slam winner mental midget, choker etc..

I know it was a pretty bad lose for Roger Federer at 40-15, probably he may have choked but to call him a choker is nonsense. He has win so many matches, as recent as AO 2017 that too against Rafa, from the brinks of defeat. It's one thing to say Rafa or Novak is mentally stronger but to say Roger Federer is mentally weak is insane.

Have to say Roger has some truly irritating fans on this board.
Federer shut a lot of his own 'fans' up more than anyone else today. Funny stuff. Good on ya Maestro. I was very upset at the Wimbledon loss but didn't feel the need to denigrate Fed constantly. 40-15 is funny to joke about because it WAS a gutwrenching way to lose control of the match but he's not a mental midget or anything because of it. It just didn't work out. 1 point goes differently and the entire narrative changes. So to me, it's important to find a middle ground. Federer lost a tight match, the opposite of the 2017 AO Final. It sucks but it's sport. He came as close as you possibly can to winning without doing it. Today he proved to himself, his optimistic fans, and his fans that constantly call him a choker that he's still got the chops at 38 to beat the one man that has really given him fits in the biggest matches of the last 4-5 years. An ATG and possibly the best returner of all time.

Mental midgets don't win 20 slams. Mental midgets do not put themselves in positions almost constantly to win matches, even matches that their form isn't up to snuff in. Fed is a legend. So are Nadal/Djokovic.

Federer really did the only thing he didn't get a chance to in 2017 - beat Djokovic in a meaningful match. No, it wasn't Wimbledon, unfortunately. But it was a big match - YE #1 on the line for Djokovic, lots to play for. Could deal yet another devastating blow to Fed's mentality. But Federer turned it around with a clinic. Will it impact future matches? No way of knowing. But Federer proved a lot today.
 

Feather

Legend
Federer shut a lot of his own 'fans' up more than anyone else today. Funny stuff. Good on ya Maestro. I was very upset at the Wimbledon loss but didn't feel the need to denigrate Fed constantly. 40-15 is funny to joke about because it WAS a gutwrenching way to lose control of the match but he's not a mental midget or anything because of it. It just didn't work out. 1 point goes differently and the entire narrative changes. So to me, it's important to find a middle ground. Federer lost a tight match, the opposite of the 2017 AO Final. It sucks but it's sport. He came as close as you possibly can to winning without doing it. Today he proved to himself, his optimistic fans, and his fans that constantly call him a choker that he's still got the chops at 38 to beat the one man that has really given him fits in the biggest matches of the last 4-5 years. An ATG and possibly the best returner of all time.

Mental midgets don't win 20 slams. Mental midgets do not put themselves in positions almost constantly to win matches, even matches that their form isn't up to snuff in. Fed is a legend. So are Nadal/Djokovic.

Federer really did the only thing he didn't get a chance to in 2017 - beat Djokovic in a meaningful match. No, it wasn't Wimbledon, unfortunately. But it was a big match - YE #1 on the line for Djokovic, lots to play for. Could deal yet another devastating blow to Fed's mentality. But Federer turned it around with a clinic. Will it impact future matches? No way of knowing. But Federer proved a lot today.
Beautifully written! You are one of my favourite posters here. Like you, I too share the love for Roger Federer and Juan Martin del Potro.

Correctly said Roger shut his fans too! I mean it's one thing to say Novak Djokovic is the huge favourite but to talk like Roger Federer has absolutely no chance is like being disrespectful to Roger. Also i think after AO 2019, Novak Djokovic is not invincible. He lost many matches and he was shaky. Wimbledon, I expected Roger Federer to win but it turned out to be a disaster. I felt that Novak Djokovic is in his head. How else can you explain Roger playing so well most of the time and on pressure points tiebreakers playing very tight. If Roger had a win against Novak Djokovic in any of the masters before Wimbledon, probably Roger would have prevailed. Not saying this win will help Roger Federer beat Novak Djokovic if they meet in AO 2020. Novak Djokovic is too good a player, an ATG. However, I don't expect Roger Federer to be tight on important points the way he was in Wimbledon 2019!

This win will certainly help Roger Federer to be confident the next time they both play. Let us see how they play next time

The previous two matches, one in indoor (Paris 2018) where Roger wasn't broken at all but lost two tiebreakers was also a damn close match which could have gone either way. After that match and Wimbledon 2019, another extremely close match, if a guy thought that Roger Federer had no chance yesterday then he is clueless about the game.

PS: I know you don't like Liverpool. But I am huge Liverpool fan and hope we will win League this year
 

Federer and Del Potro

Talk Tennis Guru
Beautifully written! You are one of my favourite posters here. Like you, I too share the love for Roger Federer and Juan Martin del Potro.

Correctly said Roger shut his fans too! I mean it's one thing to say Novak Djokovic is the huge favourite but to talk like Roger Federer has absolutely no chance is like being disrespectful to Roger. Also i think after AO 2019, Novak Djokovic is not invincible. He lost many matches and he was shaky. Wimbledon, I expected Roger Federer to win but it turned out to be a disaster. I felt that Novak Djokovic is in his head. How else can you explain Roger playing so well most of the time and on pressure points tiebreakers playing very tight. If Roger had a win against Novak Djokovic in any of the masters before Wimbledon, probably Roger would have prevailed. Not saying this win will help Roger Federer beat Novak Djokovic if they meet in AO 2020. Novak Djokovic is too good a player, an ATG. However, I don't expect Roger Federer to be tight on important points the way he was in Wimbledon 2019!

This win will certainly help Roger Federer to be confident the next time they both play. Let us see how they play next time

The previous two matches, one in indoor (Paris 2018) where Roger wasn't broken at all but lost two tiebreakers was also a damn close match which could have gone either way. After that match and Wimbledon 2019, another extremely close match, if a guy thought that Roger Federer had no chance yesterday then he is clueless about the game.

PS: I know you don't like Liverpool. But I am huge Liverpool fan and hope we will win League this year
Appreciate that mate. You're one of my favorites as well. Your optimism is refreshing around here because sometimes it is in direly short supply. Glad Federer was able to reward you today for your persistent and genuine optimism.

As for Liverpool, thank you for giving more more reason to root them on hahaha. I will be very happy for you if they win the league now. I did not know you were a Liverpool fan.

Congrats on Champions league win! Massive achievement.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Fed can face zverev in semis.
It can happen only if
Zverev beats Medvedev in straight sets like 6-2 6-2 for eg.
Nadal beats tispitas in striaght sets.

Then all 3 tied up at 2 wins.
Tispitas and Zverev will have 4-2 set wins and progress. Nadal will have 4-3 and don't progress
Among tispitas and Zverev who ever has better game wins will be #1 of group
I think between Tsitsipas and Zverev, H2H will take precedence.
 

D.Nalby12

Legend
Fantastic Tennis from Federer. He had left Nole no option but to redline his game. Djoko' shot making was fantastic but he was never going to sustain with Federer rushing him all the match.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
His own fans call him mental midget. I have seen some Roger fans saying Roger would have won X slams had be been not a mental midget. How moronic to call a 20 slam winner mental midget, choker etc..

I know it was a pretty bad lose for Roger Federer at 40-15, probably he may have choked but to call him a choker is nonsense. He has won so many matches, as recent as AO 2017 that too against Rafa, from the brinks of defeat. It's one thing to say Rafa or Novak is mentally stronger but to say Roger Federer is mentally weak is insane.

Have to say Roger has some truly irritating fans on this board.
Federer as a tennis player is not mentally weak.

As a GOAT candidate though? He kinda is. He should be compared to Rafa and Nole in this department because who else we should compare him to? He is 10 times better than 98% of the ATP tour anyway, so mentally he has to be compared to his equals because that's the only thing separating them as in terms of ability they are inseparable.

He has failed too many times against them because of poor mental strength.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Federer shut a lot of his own 'fans' up more than anyone else today. Funny stuff. Good on ya Maestro. I was very upset at the Wimbledon loss but didn't feel the need to denigrate Fed constantly. 40-15 is funny to joke about because it WAS a gutwrenching way to lose control of the match but he's not a mental midget or anything because of it. It just didn't work out. 1 point goes differently and the entire narrative changes. So to me, it's important to find a middle ground. Federer lost a tight match, the opposite of the 2017 AO Final. It sucks but it's sport. He came as close as you possibly can to winning without doing it. Today he proved to himself, his optimistic fans, and his fans that constantly call him a choker that he's still got the chops at 38 to beat the one man that has really given him fits in the biggest matches of the last 4-5 years. An ATG and possibly the best returner of all time.

Mental midgets don't win 20 slams. Mental midgets do not put themselves in positions almost constantly to win matches, even matches that their form isn't up to snuff in. Fed is a legend. So are Nadal/Djokovic.

Federer really did the only thing he didn't get a chance to in 2017 - beat Djokovic in a meaningful match. No, it wasn't Wimbledon, unfortunately. But it was a big match - YE #1 on the line for Djokovic, lots to play for. Could deal yet another devastating blow to Fed's mentality. But Federer turned it around with a clinic. Will it impact future matches? No way of knowing. But Federer proved a lot today.
I'll reserve my judgements for the next time they play in a slam that is not RG.

This was a great win, but if Djokovic wins their next slam match, it will have turned out to be meaningless.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Beautifully written! You are one of my favourite posters here. Like you, I too share the love for Roger Federer and Juan Martin del Potro.

Correctly said Roger shut his fans too! I mean it's one thing to say Novak Djokovic is the huge favourite but to talk like Roger Federer has absolutely no chance is like being disrespectful to Roger. Also i think after AO 2019, Novak Djokovic is not invincible. He lost many matches and he was shaky. Wimbledon, I expected Roger Federer to win but it turned out to be a disaster. I felt that Novak Djokovic is in his head. How else can you explain Roger playing so well most of the time and on pressure points tiebreakers playing very tight. If Roger had a win against Novak Djokovic in any of the masters before Wimbledon, probably Roger would have prevailed. Not saying this win will help Roger Federer beat Novak Djokovic if they meet in AO 2020. Novak Djokovic is too good a player, an ATG. However, I don't expect Roger Federer to be tight on important points the way he was in Wimbledon 2019!

This win will certainly help Roger Federer to be confident the next time they both play. Let us see how they play next time

The previous two matches, one in indoor (Paris 2018) where Roger wasn't broken at all but lost two tiebreakers was also a damn close match which could have gone either way. After that match and Wimbledon 2019, another extremely close match, if a guy thought that Roger Federer had no chance yesterday then he is clueless about the game.

PS: I know you don't like Liverpool. But I am huge Liverpool fan and hope we will win League this year
This was a great win, but so was Cincy 2015 and in the end it meant nothing for the 2015 USO as Fed STILL got tight on the big points.

That's why I will reserve my judgement on this win, even though I do think it was a great one.
 
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Gazelle

Legend
Did Djok succumb under the pressure of playing for number one position?

I thought he played very weirdly. Much more aggressive, normally he's more controlled and tries to grind Federer down. He hit quite a lot of winners which was interesting to see, but he played the type of game in which Federer will always be better 90% of the times.

Maybe he thought he had been too passive against Thiem and tried to rectify that?
 
Just saw the highlights and the stats. Both seemed fantastic for Federer.
though FH was not firing at full pace.
He looked like he was putting air onto the ball and varying the pace through the match. His slice was also slow and with some air which really made it stall on the bounce - It seemed to me like he was content to let Djoker generate his own pace from behind the baseline rather than counterpunch and redirect his own, which he does so effectively, as well as allow himself more margin for error (hence the measly 5 unforced errors(?)) in the process. This was possibly made extra effective by being quite the contrast in ball that Thiem was delivering every other shot a couple of days prior. I suppose he made the most of the tools he had available (which as you suggest, did not really include a typical fearhand).

His serving was also ridiculous.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
For all the Novak fans about the "hideous crowds," why not take a listen to your guy who actually was there?

"It was an important match, and I think every time I face Roger or Rafa anywhere in the world, it's a lot of excitement. So it was a full stadium, which was nice to see. It was loud. It was electric. You know, it was a good atmosphere."
Please hand this out to the sick and injured
 

Ray Mercer

Hall of Fame
I'll reserve my judgements for the next time they play in a slam that is not RG.

This was a great win, but if Djokovic wins their next slam match, it will have turned out to be meaningless.
Why would you expect an almost 39 year old Fed to win a best of 5 against another all time great 6 years his junior on a slower surface? That’s ridiculous. You realize Feds contemporaries like Roddick, Safin, Ferrero etc. have been retired for almost a decade. It’s insane he’s still going and winning big matches at his age. I think Fed’s mental strength is understated because he’s a shot maker unlike Nadal and Djokovic who are pushers/grinders. It’s much harder to hit winners and hit spots on big points than just run down balls and put the ball back into play. Djokovic and Nadal just use their youth and defence to put the ball back in play and play the pusher role in big points. The final Wimbledon tie break is a perfect example as Djokovic did not hit a single winner.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Why would you expect an almost 39 year old Fed to win a best of 5 against another all time great 6 years his junior on a slower surface? That’s ridiculous. You realize Feds contemporaries like Roddick, Safin, Ferrero etc. have been retired for almost a decade. It’s insane he’s still going and winning big matches at his age. I think Fed’s mental strength is understated because he’s a shot maker unlike Nadal and Djokovic who are pushers/grinders. It’s much harder to hit winners and hit spots on big points than just run down balls and put the ball back into play. Djokovic and Nadal just use their youth and defence to put the ball back in play and play the pusher role in big points. The final Wimbledon tie break is a perfect example as Djokovic did not hit a single winner.
After how close he came at Wimb, damn straights I have such expectations from him.
 

TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
Nole not @NoleFam said in press conference when asked that he like the atmosphere for the match.o_O
I don’t think the crowd was bad to Novak in WTF. And I am sensitive about that stuff. Wimbledon was bad, USO too. Not WTF.
Fed got more cheers, but that is not so strange. I don’t think they were vile towards Novak. Many cheered for Novak too.
 

TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
Actually it was 21,000 cheering for Roger and 3 on the Djoker bandwagon, but it's all good.


I watch the match and it was loads of cheers for Novak too. I thought of it during the match, WTF better for Novak than Wimbledon when it comes to this. At a point I thought they cheered so much for Novak I felt it wasn’t so good for Novak as Novak often win when crowd massively against him.
 

volleynets

Professional
How did Federer not win the group? He and Thiem both went 2-1 but Federer is 4-2 in sets while Thiem is 4-3 losing one more set. Did they consider that Thiem beat Fed over the set tiebreaker?
 

roysid

Hall of Fame
How often do we need to go through this? In case of two-way tie h2h decides. So Tsits would still win group ahead of Z. Game percentage won't come into it here.

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In case of three way tie h2h doesn't matter, set win loss matter.
It seems you haven't read my post or ignorant of the three way tie.
 

roysid

Hall of Fame
How did Federer not win the group? He and Thiem both went 2-1 but Federer is 4-2 in sets while Thiem is 4-3 losing one more set. Did they consider that Thiem beat Fed over the set tiebreaker?
In case of two guys having same points, their h2h in this tournament decides the winner. Thiem and fed both had 2 wins, but thiem won the match between them.
 
I think Fed’s mental strength is understated because he’s a shot maker unlike Nadal and Djokovic who are pushers/grinders. It’s much harder to hit winners and hit spots on big points than just run down balls and put the ball back into play. Djokovic and Nadal just use their youth and defence to put the ball back in play and play the pusher role in big points. The final Wimbledon tie break is a perfect example as Djokovic did not hit a single winner.
TRUE
 

Big_Dangerous

Talk Tennis Guru
In case of two guys having same points, their h2h in this tournament decides the winner. Thiem and fed both had 2 wins, but thiem won the match between them.
Probably going to end up being just fine, since Fed will end up having to play either an exhausted Tsitsipas or Nadal in his semi. If Zverev wins, then Tsitsipas wins the group and plays Fed. If Zverev loses then Nadal wins the group and plays Fed in the semis.
 

volleynets

Professional
Yes, if only 2 players are tied then the winner is the one who won the match between them.
They're not tied though, Thiem lost one more set than Federer. It's even on the table next to W/L. Thiem is 4-3 vs Roger 4-2. It should only come to H2H if the delta in games was equal too.

Federer outperformed Thiem overall despite going down to him.
 
They're not tied though, Thiem lost one more set than Federer. It's even on the table next to W/L. Thiem is 4-3 vs Roger 4-2. It should only come to H2H if the delta in games was equal too.

Federer outperformed Thiem overall despite going down to him.
I mean tied in match wins. If 3 players are tied then it is decided by sets, if only 2 then by the winner of their match. Tsitsipas is 5-2 in sets while Nadal is 4-4. But if Medvedev wins tonight then Nadal will take the first place due to beating Tsitsipas.
 

mightyjeditribble

Hall of Fame
We'll know next week during Davis Cup Finals just how bad the Djokovic injury to his elbow may be. The return numbers are too good to be true and frankly so were Thiem's. Proof will be in the pudding next week on how much Djokovic plays if at all. Djokovic said he had some pain in the match and then it was not a problem. And yet still discussed that he won't know for sure about Davis Cup for a few more days due to the elbow pain.:unsure:

Frankly Fed's play from IW (well really took off in Miami) through Wimbledon was unbelievablely superlative.

I'm not sure about the low pace of Fed's forehand. The camera angle is a bit compressed at the O2 and its makes everything look slower and spinnier than reality.

I've watched the practice courts this week and not one Fed session in the replays. I suspect he does not practice at all the week of the tournament to protect his back (Kyrgios never practices serve). He may hit off-site, but just to warm up a touch is my suspicion. I think his back and serve go hand in hand so great sign that he served well against Djokovic and has a day off before playing again on Saturday.:p
I heard someone say that he was practicing at Queen's Club. Also in his press conferences Fed has talked about the juniors he's been practicing with.

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acintya

Legend
I think Fed, Nadal and Thiem love tennis more than other guys do. not a fact,just my feeling!
Thiem for me is the most serious guy of the new wave - hard worker.

honorable mention: Tsitsipas :D
 

Silence

Professional
We'll know next week during Davis Cup Finals just how bad the Djokovic injury to his elbow may be. The return numbers are too good to be true and frankly so were Thiem's. Proof will be in the pudding next week on how much Djokovic plays if at all. Djokovic said he had some pain in the match and then it was not a problem. And yet still discussed that he won't know for sure about Davis Cup for a few more days due to the elbow pain.:unsure:

Frankly Fed's play from IW (well really took off in Miami) through Wimbledon was unbelievablely superlative.

I'm not sure about the low pace of Fed's forehand. The camera angle is a bit compressed at the O2 and its makes everything look slower and spinnier than reality.

I've watched the practice courts this week and not one Fed session in the replays. I suspect he does not practice at all the week of the tournament to protect his back (Kyrgios never practices serve). He may hit off-site, but just to warm up a touch is my suspicion. I think his back and serve go hand in hand so great sign that he served well against Djokovic and has a day off before playing again on Saturday.:p
motherf... stop with the kiss of death on the old man! He doomed now!:( :( :(
 

MeatTornado

Legend
Pretty funny going back and reading what was said in the moment. I would've been right there with you guys if I'd been watching live; overanalyzing every forehand, questioning every shot selection, panicking at every BP.

But getting to watch this already knowing the final score ended up being quite a treat. I was able to sit back and enjoy the absolute clinic Roger was putting on without worrying about if one missed shot would unravel and lead to getting broken.
 
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