2019 ATP Finals RR: [2] Novak Ultronovic vs [5] Team Thiem

[Rina]

I saw the stats and there is a 2 point difference overall. Why are the news reporting how Thiem demolished Novak?

 

[I Am Finnish]

I saw the stats and there is a 2 point difference overall. Why are the news reporting how Thiem demolished Novak?

They said that? LoL

 

[I Am Finnish]

I think Djokovic played good except the 2nd tb after the 4-1

 

[abmk]

saw some short highlights. some good stuff in there.
Good on Thiem for beating Djokovic on HC for the 1st time.
he's been good on HC this year - winning IW (beating fed), china open (beating tsitsipas)
beat fed and now djokovic at the YEC to get to his first semi at the YEC

 

[RF-18]

Hey, has Thiem secured the top spot in the group or is that still up for grabs, say if Djokovic wins tomorrow in whatever while Thiem loses?

Im not too sure about the rules if it's a tie. I ve read somewhere that if it's a three way tie, then h2h is looked at.

 

[youngpolyhater]

Hey, has Thiem secured the top spot in the group or is that still up for grabs, say if Djokovic wins tomorrow in whatever while Thiem loses?

Im not too sure about the rules if it's a tie. I ve read somewhere that if it's a three way tie, then h2h is looked at.

 

[yokied]

Timmy got his big boy pants on now. Gonna donate the RR and smash him in the final. Book it.

Obviously it's not quite how I imagined. As long as he doesn't just RolloveR in the knockouts after all this RR heavyweight nonsense, I'll be happy. @Meles is it just like you imagined?

Tim's improved noticeably but I'm still not sure what any of this means for BO5. Tim after Time I've been disappointed, so only Tim will tell now. Notes:

Smarter with more margin and sense in general:
* Improved returning, probably the biggest surprise against a solid server like Novak
* Better court positioning, not more than 2m behind the baseline most of the time.
* Abbreviated takebacks, flatter strikes (equal RPS with Novak), much less running away from the ball.
* Conservative placement down the middle of the court.

He generally waited a lot longer than normal, usually for a weak and/or short ball before really trying to end the point. As such, the winner count is a bit deceptive because a lot of them were semi-standard putaways. Sure, a lot of great highlight reel winners but not a lot against the run of play on a dead run. He had Novak right against the wall, pushing him back and keeping him back.

He still played a lot of stupid tennis and is clearly struggling with the mental and concentration required at this level. Even the mug commentators noted how many points he lost, hungover from the previous. He's improving but still there's a lot of engrained stupid for Massu to chip away at:
* Playing back to the opponent. He might have thought he was playing in behind Novak, but you're only wrong-footing someone if they're actually moving. A large number of winners were missed where Novak left 80% of the court open, didn't even bother moving and Timmy hit it straight back to him.
* Readable FH putaways. He is still too tempted to set up for a huge, readable swing. In those cases, Novak gets too long a look at the swing and too long to recover position as Timmy lets the ball drop too much.
* Drive FHs - after hitting some of these, especially up the middle, he often expected that to force an error and was not ready to hit another ball. You can't do that at 4.0, let alone against Novak. They're going to come back.
* Bailout slices. These came in two forms: non-committal scoop slices on rally balls that did nothing but sit up and fadeaway falling backwards slices with shocking footwork off returns or early in rallies. He gave away a noticeable number where that he wasn't really concentrating. Pretty sure the Melesian math would find hard evidence here.

Two bad service games up a break in the 3rd. The worst was the simply woeful service game up a break at 3-2 in the 3rd. He really should've had the match won at this point. He played a shocking game all round, forgetting all of the above, pulling the trigger early on everything, not getting ready to play another ball etc. The cherry on the s**tcake was he stopped play on a break point expecting an out call that never came. More 4.0 stuff. Plenty of regrettable stupid at 6-5 serving it out too.

He can't keep having so mugatronian episodes if he wants to be king. I still can't believe how many deciding sets he's won against quality players this year. Holy cow they've been messy. He played nearly 30% more service points than Breakpointovic in the match, won 2 more points overall and somehow still won. Nuts.

 

[Meles]

Obviously it's not quite how I imagined. As long as he doesn't just RolloveR in the knockouts after all this RR heavyweight nonsense, I'll be happy. @Meles is it just like you imagined?

Tim's improved noticeably but I'm still not sure what any of this means for BO5. Tim after Time I've been disappointed, so only Tim will tell now. Notes:

Smarter with more margin and sense in general:
* Improved returning, probably the biggest surprise against a solid server like Novak
* Better court positioning, not more than 2m behind the baseline most of the time.
* Abbreviated takebacks, flatter strikes (equal RPS with Novak), much less running away from the ball.
* Conservative placement down the middle of the court.

He generally waited a lot longer than normal, usually for a weak and/or short ball before really trying to end the point. As such, the winner count is a bit deceptive because a lot of them were semi-standard putaways. Sure, a lot of great highlight reel winners but not a lot against the run of play on a dead run. He had Novak right against the wall, pushing him back and keeping him back.

He still played a lot of stupid tennis and is clearly struggling with the mental and concentration required at this level. Even the mug commentators noted how many points he lost, hungover from the previous. He's improving but still there's a lot of engrained stupid for Massu to chip away at:
* Playing back to the opponent. He might have thought he was playing in behind Novak, but you're only wrong-footing someone if they're actually moving. A large number of winners were missed where Novak left 80% of the court open, didn't even bother moving and Timmy hit it straight back to him.
* Readable FH putaways. He is still too tempted to set up for a huge, readable swing. In those cases, Novak gets too long a look at the swing and too long to recover position as Timmy lets the ball drop too much.
* Drive FHs - after hitting some of these, especially up the middle, he often expected that to force an error and was not ready to hit another ball. You can't do that at 4.0, let alone against Novak. They're going to come back.
* Bailout slices. These came in two forms: non-committal scoop slices on rally balls that did nothing but sit up and fadeaway falling backwards slices with shocking footwork off returns or early in rallies. He gave away a noticeable number where that he wasn't really concentrating. Pretty sure the Melesian math would find hard evidence here.

Two bad service games up a break in the 3rd. The worst was the simply woeful service game up a break at 3-2 in the 3rd. He really should've had the match won at this point. He played a shocking game all round, forgetting all of the above, pulling the trigger early on everything, not getting ready to play another ball etc. The cherry on the s**tcake was he stopped play on a break point expecting an out call that never came. More 4.0 stuff. Plenty of regrettable stupid at 6-5 serving it out too.

He can't keep having so mugatronian episodes if he wants to be king. I still can't believe how many deciding sets he's won against quality players this year. Holy cow they've been messy. He played nearly 30% more service points than Breakpointovic in the match, won 2 more points overall and somehow still won. Nuts.

bow down before the one you serve

 

[Meles]

Obviously it's not quite how I imagined. As long as he doesn't just RolloveR in the knockouts after all this RR heavyweight nonsense, I'll be happy. @Meles is it just like you imagined?

Tim's improved noticeably but I'm still not sure what any of this means for BO5. Tim after Time I've been disappointed, so only Tim will tell now. Notes:

Smarter with more margin and sense in general:
* Improved returning, probably the biggest surprise against a solid server like Novak
* Better court positioning, not more than 2m behind the baseline most of the time.
* Abbreviated takebacks, flatter strikes (equal RPS with Novak), much less running away from the ball.
* Conservative placement down the middle of the court.

He generally waited a lot longer than normal, usually for a weak and/or short ball before really trying to end the point. As such, the winner count is a bit deceptive because a lot of them were semi-standard putaways. Sure, a lot of great highlight reel winners but not a lot against the run of play on a dead run. He had Novak right against the wall, pushing him back and keeping him back.

He still played a lot of stupid tennis and is clearly struggling with the mental and concentration required at this level. Even the mug commentators noted how many points he lost, hungover from the previous. He's improving but still there's a lot of engrained stupid for Massu to chip away at:
* Playing back to the opponent. He might have thought he was playing in behind Novak, but you're only wrong-footing someone if they're actually moving. A large number of winners were missed where Novak left 80% of the court open, didn't even bother moving and Timmy hit it straight back to him.
* Readable FH putaways. He is still too tempted to set up for a huge, readable swing. In those cases, Novak gets too long a look at the swing and too long to recover position as Timmy lets the ball drop too much.
* Drive FHs - after hitting some of these, especially up the middle, he often expected that to force an error and was not ready to hit another ball. You can't do that at 4.0, let alone against Novak. They're going to come back.
* Bailout slices. These came in two forms: non-committal scoop slices on rally balls that did nothing but sit up and fadeaway falling backwards slices with shocking footwork off returns or early in rallies. He gave away a noticeable number where that he wasn't really concentrating. Pretty sure the Melesian math would find hard evidence here.

Two bad service games up a break in the 3rd. The worst was the simply woeful service game up a break at 3-2 in the 3rd. He really should've had the match won at this point. He played a shocking game all round, forgetting all of the above, pulling the trigger early on everything, not getting ready to play another ball etc. The cherry on the s**tcake was he stopped play on a break point expecting an out call that never came. More 4.0 stuff. Plenty of regrettable stupid at 6-5 serving it out too.

He can't keep having so mugatronian episodes if he wants to be king. I still can't believe how many deciding sets he's won against quality players this year. Holy cow they've been messy. He played nearly 30% more service points than Breakpointovic in the match, won 2 more points overall and somehow still won. Nuts.

A lot of this Massu and better strategy to be sure, but the fact remains Thiem was at only 52.0% points won on hard courts for the year entering WTF, the same as 2018. Maybe one can have a Kafelnikov moment and snag a slam with these numbers, but its just a far cry from the top of the game.

To me today's match was also about physical domination. Djoko was drained of his best by the end of the first set and was on hang on mode the rest of the way. Thiem should keep pounding those burgers and with time his serve and physicality are just going to get brutally stronger. Its what happens for players at this age and should help Thiem out a lot.

Thiem was pounding the turbo button and hitting the cover off the ball in this match. Yes he did not go for outright winners, but his pace was massive. He faltered a bit at the end from exhaustion himself. And again all these areas that are getting better will continue to do so for a long, long Thiem. Thiem is on track to becoming some kind of Super Musterian force on tour, but with wins off Clay as well. Its just Brutiful.

 

[ForehandCross]

that bh is on fire today

Beautiful day

No Calm. @Yugram on the ThiemTrain.

My biggest surprise reading this thread

@Yugram actually supported Thiem for a match

Allez

THAT WILL DO IT.

Now hold your damn serve!

THIEMINATED

THIEMINATED

THIEMINATED

THIEMINATED

THIEMINATED

THIEMINATED

THIEMINATED

THIEMINATED

THIEMINATED

THIEMINATED

THIEMINATED

THIEMINATED

THIEMINATED

THIEMINATED

THIEMINATED

THIEMINATED

Slayed. *****’ slayed.

oh this one handed backhand
who needs a wife who needs a woman

This man has solved life.

Djokovic is playing against Wawrinka the Boogeyman now

Yes. Timothy could have been the new Wawarinka to Novak.

Thiem is on his way of beating 2 of the ATG indoor HC players consecutively!

So much for a clay courter

Will get to a HC slam final and win the next HC slam

Djokovic is on FIRE. Thiem is choking and cannot hit anything in the court.

That's why Djokovic is a champion and Thiem is a pretender.

16 slams vs ZERO slams.

Looks like Thiem will have to complete the Ultimate Challenge of this season – beat Djokovic on Tie Break.

And he did, in style too. Was 1-4 done.

I have an unbelievable amount of respect for Thiem for pulling this off. Djokovic couldn't've played ANY better in the last 20-30 minutes, can't even believe I'm saying this.

UN FU****NGBELIEVABLE.

You really are a tennis pro!!

"Clay court specialist" Thiem has just defeated two great hard court players back to back on an indoor fast court!!!
The Thiemination continues.

Hopefully he picks up Thiemination again in NY where he left it last year.

 

[Tennis_Freak99]

Excellent match