2019 ATP Rome Masters

Champion


  • Total voters
    86
I think it is. There's no way a near 38 year old Fed is beating Nadal on clay, no matter how bad Rafa is playing.
The age gap hasn't changed between Rafa and Federer lol. They are both getting old. Federer has just the same disadvantage he has always had. If Roger can win five times in a row against Rafa a couple of years ago he can win on clay against the Rafa in current form if he plays a great match. Rafa lost to Thiem, Fognini and Tsitsipas. Roger is one of the greatest clay court players of all time. I have him only behind Rafa and Borg. No other player was winning French Opens during Rafa's peak and Fed had his chances in 06, 07 and 11.
 
The age gap hasn't changed between Rafa and Federer lol. They are both getting old. Federer has just the same disadvantage he has always had. If Roger can win five times in a row against Rafa a couple of years ago he can win on clay if he plays a great match. Rafa lost to Thiem, Fognini and Tsitsipas. Roger is one of the greatest clay court players of all time. I have him only behind Rafa and Borg. No other player was winning French Opens during Rafa's peak and Fed had his chances in 07 and 11.
You're the only one, though.
 
Roger is one of the greatest clay court players of all time. I have him only behind Rafa and Borg.
Um, you are absolutely crazy. Federer is a really good clay court player, but he isn't just behind Nadal and Borg. That is insane. Federer isn't close to Djokovic on clay. Let us not forget that Federer lost in four sets to John Isner in best-of-five on clay in Davis Cup. JOHN ISNER ON CLAY. That should end the entire discussion right there.

Saying Federer on clay is just behind Nadal and Borg is like saying Nadal on grass is just behind Federer and Sampras. Insane.
 
Um, you are absolutely crazy. Federer is a really good clay court player, but he isn't just behind Nadal and Borg. That is insane. Federer isn't close to Djokovic on clay. Let us not forget that Federer lost in four sets to John Isner in best-of-five on clay in Davis Cup. JOHN ISNER ON CLAY. That should end the entire discussion right there.

Saying Federer on clay is just behind Nadal and Borg is like saying Nadal on grass is just behind Federer and Sampras. Insane.
Bolded: now that's just hyperbole.

And regarding John Isner, Rafa was pushed to 5 sets by him at RG. Does that invalidate Rafa's clay court prowess too?
 
Um, you are absolutely crazy. Federer is a really good clay court player, but he isn't just behind Nadal and Borg. That is insane. Federer isn't close to Djokovic on clay. Let us not forget that Federer lost in four sets to John Isner in best-of-five on clay in Davis Cup. JOHN ISNER ON CLAY. That should end the entire discussion right there.

Saying Federer on clay is just behind Nadal and Borg is like saying Nadal on grass is just behind Federer and Sampras. Insane.
Isner is a great player. Almost beat RAFA at RG.
 
Um, you are absolutely crazy. Federer is a really good clay court player, but he isn't just behind Nadal and Borg. That is insane. Federer isn't close to Djokovic on clay. Let us not forget that Federer lost in four sets to John Isner in best-of-five on clay in Davis Cup. JOHN ISNER ON CLAY. That should end the entire discussion right there.

Saying Federer on clay is just behind Nadal and Borg is like saying Nadal on grass is just behind Federer and Sampras. Insane.
i was with you until the nole part. i dont particularly think he is better, imo neither are natural clay court players but are such all good around players who have done well in rather weak clay court era.

i mean you could also say that nadal was pushed to 5 sets by john isner on clay as well.
 
Bolded: now that's just hyperbole.

And regarding John Isner, Rafa was pushed to 5 sets by him at RG. Does that invalidate Rafa's clay court prowess too?
You are talking about hyperbole? So winning in five sets against John Isner on clay is almost at the same level of losing in four sets to him on clay? Please. Let's get into the details of those matches. Nadal lost two tiebreaks against Isner. Nadal won every set there wasn't a tiebreak. How about Federer's match against Isner? There was only one tiebreak (which Isner won). Isner broke Federer in two other sets. Broke him twice in the final set.

Those two matches aren't even close in comparison.
 
i was with you until the nole part. i dont particularly think he is better, imo neither are natural clay court players but are such all good around players who have done well in rather weak clay court era.

i mean you could also say that nadal was pushed to 5 sets by john isner on clay as well.
Nole is better on clay than Fed because he has won every clay masters and multiple times as well. But saying Fed is not close to him on clay when he actually is represents pure hyperbole. At RG, they are pretty much neck and neck.
 
You are talking about hyperbole? So winning in five sets against John Isner on clay is almost at the same level of losing in four sets to him on clay? Please. Let's get into the details of those matches. Nadal lost two tiebreaks against Isner. Nadal won every set there wasn't a tiebreak. How about Federer's match against Isner? There was only one tiebreak (which Isner won). Isner broke Federer in two other sets. Broke him twice in the final set.

Those two matches aren't even close in comparison.
So what? Every one has bad matches on occasion, why should the surface matter? You act like Federer lost to Isner at RG or something. He lost at Davis Cup, which no offense, is not really that important to someone's legacy on clay. But since you focus on that so much, why not mention how Fed won Davis Cup for Switzerland on clay in 2014?

Regarding Rafa, he had no business being pushed to 5 by Isner in his own backyard, so to me it's the same thing.
 
Nole is better on clay than Fed because he has won every clay masters and multiple times as well. But saying Fed is not close to him on clay when he actually is represents pure hyperbole. At RG, they are pretty much neck and neck.
yeah true, i guess though i sometimes write it off as back luck running into rafa since fed has a much bigger match up issue, and he was the second man for a long time, but at the end of the days titles are the most important thing so i'll def give it to nole. in general though i do think both have benefited from lack of clay court competition at times.
 
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