2019 Halle open R32 :- R. Federer [1] v/s J. Milman

Match result prediction poll

  • Goat in 2

    Votes: 28 70.0%
  • Goat in 3

    Votes: 1 2.5%
  • Milkman in 2

    Votes: 6 15.0%
  • Milkman in 3

    Votes: 5 12.5%

  • Total voters
    40

Otacon

Hall of Fame
Well rested legs?

I think it's only a problem against players that can actually exploit it - players with weapons. Most still can't trouble Roger enough so the 'strategy' fails if not executed well enough. Roger gets a lot of those back with his semi-squash/FH slice on the stretch.
We often talk about his neo-BH in 2017, but if you watch his final against Nadal more closely, he also won that match thanks to his running FH. The best illustration is that incredible rally in the 5th where he was stretched to his right side several times but stayed in the point and turned defense into attack.
 
D

Deleted member 763024

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We often talk about his neo-BH in 2017, but if you watch his final against Nadal more closely, he also won that match thanks to his running FH. The best illustration is that incredible rally in the 5th where he was stretched to his right side several times but stayed in the point and turned defense into attack.
Absolutely.

I still think the AO17 triumph was more a testament to his renewed movement than any other aspect of the game.

The Neo-BH was more a symptom than a cause of that resurgence.
 
I don't want Fed to get a handicapped Wimbledon win on his CV. I want Djokovic in the semis and Nadal in the Finals. This is so much more exciting and fun to which if he is able to win the first.
 
Anderson. It’s possible for either Zverev or Tsitsipas end up 4th depending on how they all do this week. The top 8 are set (Thiem and Nishikori are the others) but ordering can shift a bit.
Thanks. Hope Stef gets it because I'd rather he not be a potential QF opponent. I'm not too worried about Anderson in current form, or Thiem on grass.
 
Thanks. Hope Stef gets it because I'd rather he not be a potential QF opponent. I'm not too worried about Anderson in current form, or Thiem on grass.
If I'm counting up the points correctly, I think for Tsits to get the #4 seed, he has to win Queens and have Anderson not make the semis and have Zverev not win Halle. Not getting any points last week really hurt his chances.
 
If I'm counting up the points correctly, I think for Tsits to get the #4 seed, he has to win Queens and have Anderson not make the semis and have Zverev not win Halle. Not getting any points last week really hurt his chances.
Seeds for a slam all are based on rankings right up until the slam? Is there a deadline? aka can someone win a challenger and sneak a few extra points? You'd figure by all these years I'd know it by now.
 
Seeds for a slam all are based on rankings right up until the slam? Is there a deadline? aka can someone win a challenger and sneak a few extra points? You'd figure by all these years I'd know it by now.
Wimbledon uses a different formula (ATP points + grass points last 12 months + 0.75 x best grass result 13-24 months prior). Tourneys through this week count (so Eastbourne next week won't count). So winning Queens/Halle could be worth up to 1,000 (less if it replaces a tournament that's currently providing points - I think Tsits has a 90 point result that would drop if he exceeds that at Queens - if that's correct he can only net 910 Wimbledon points were he to win).
 
No, they still have a seeding committee which can override the rankings. Roger Federer was seeded no. 1 at Wimbledon last year although he was ranked no. 2 at the time. The men's world no. 1, Rafael Nadal, was seeded no. 2.

Serena Williams was ranked no. 183 going into last year's Wimbledon, but seeded no. 25.

They used to have a seeding committee which could override the rankings, but that hasn’t been the case since 2002. I can’t see any way they’d override the seeding formula.
 
If I'm counting up the points correctly, I think for Tsits to get the #4 seed, he has to win Queens and have Anderson not make the semis and have Zverev not win Halle. Not getting any points last week really hurt his chances.
Wouldn't a final do it?

Alternatively, if Anderson withdraws
 
No, they still have a seeding committee which can override the rankings. Roger Federer was seeded no. 1 at Wimbledon last year although he was ranked no. 2 at the time. The men's world no. 1, Rafael Nadal, was seeded no. 2.

Serena Williams was ranked no. 183 going into last year's Wimbledon, but seeded no. 25.
They didn’t override the rankings last year. There’s just a different formula that’s used for Wimbledon which Roger led last year. It’s an explicit formula and everyone would have known Roger would be seeded #1.
 
Saw the highlights. Fed Serving well and he hit some pretty commanding forehand’s and volleys. He’ll only build on that moving forward.

Overall solid, from what I saw.
Not bad for a first match once he got to the 2nd set. He probably chose a little more rest than usual over practice beings he played the FO. Match play will fix the shortcomings. Timing is different on grass. It's the same thing I've seen for 20 years. The clay helps for the most part for preparation, but the timing takes a match or so. He has to remember to get low and react quicker. It's all about adjusting. He's fine (y)
 
Not bad for a first match once he got to the 2nd set. He probably chose a little more rest than usual over practice beings he played the FO. Match play will fix the shortcomings. Timing is different on grass. It's the same thing I've seen for 20 years. The clay helps for the most part for preparation, but the timing takes a match or so. He has to remember to get low and react quicker. It's all about adjusting. He's fine (y)
I thought the grass looked pretty chewed up for being so early in the week. Hopefully dealing with that is good practice for Wimby 2nd week :)
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Absolutely.

I still think the AO17 triumph was more a testament to his renewed movement than any other aspect of the game.

The Neo-BH was more a symptom than a cause of that resurgence.
renewed movement in AO 17 ?
His movement was actually somewhat rusty in AO 2017 after the 6 month gap. His FH+BH ballstriking made up for it.
His movement was back to what it should've been in IW 17.
 
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Deleted member 763024

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renewed movement in AO 17 ?
His movement was actually somewhat rusty in AO 2017 after the 6 month gap. His FH+BH ballstriking made up for it.
His movement was back to what it should've been in IW 17.

This is not ping pong. In tennis, you have to move to get into a position to hit the FH+BH - 'ballstriking' as you mention.

You don't get to hit good shots without the benefit of good movement.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
This is not ping pong. In tennis, you have to move to get into a position to hit the FH+BH - 'ballstriking' as you mention.

You don't get to hit good shots without the benefit of good movement.
not really. there are some shots which requirement excellent movement, but not necessarily clean ballstriking.
watch Fognini
watch older Agassi
watch AO 2017 again
watch fed in YEC 2005 vs Nalby with an injured ankle.

I made this thread after IW 17 :

His FH from AO onwards this year has been the best he's hit since 12 ( visible since the Nishikori match at the AO ) His BH is arguably as good as BH at his peak ( minus passing shots I think )....

The BH improvement was a work under progress under Edberg and finished under Ljubicic. He was hitting it consistently and deep , but not taking it as early as he is now.

He wasn't confident about going for it on the FH with his new racquet, but he's ripping it since his comeback.

Started returning more aggressively under Edberg , esp. with BH .....and finished under Ljubicic.

On the flip side, his movement has declined compared to 15, that was more visible in AO than in IW and is being masked by his groundies off both wings.

He's not servebotting as well as he was in 15, though serve is still pretty good.
Regularity of volleying has gone down quite a bit and level of it somewhat as well I think.

The big time-off ( 6 months ) gave him enough time to recover completely , become more confident on his groundstrokes ?

Comments ?
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...015-comparision-of-components-of-game.585744/
 
D

Deleted member 763024

Guest
not really. there are some shots which requirement excellent movement, but not necessarily clean ballstriking.
watch Fognini
watch older Agassi
watch AO 2017 again
watch fed in YEC 2005 vs Nalby with an injured ankle.

I made this thread after IW 17 :



https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...015-comparision-of-components-of-game.585744/
Completely disagree. Unless the ball is coming to you exactly where you are, you cannot strike the ball well. The rest of the time a player would be arming the ball or lunging for it if they cannot put themselves in advantageous positions.

The only way you can position yourself to be in such a situation is if you 'move well' - which is not the same as foot speed, because it's about anticipation, being smart about patterns and controlling the middle of the court.

So perhaps we are talking about two different things here, but I don't agree with your thesis.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Completely disagree. Unless the ball is coming to you exactly where you are, you cannot strike the ball well. The rest of the time a player would be arming the ball or lunging for it if they cannot put themselves in advantageous positions.

The only way you can position yourself to be in such a situation is if you 'move well' - which is not the same as foot speed, because it's about anticipation, being smart about patterns and controlling the middle of the court.

So perhaps we are talking about two different things here, but I don't agree with your thesis.
But if you are striking the ball really well off both wings, you don't have to move as much. The opponent will be on the run. that's what fognini does. That's what older Agassi did. That's what Fed did in AO 2017. Excellent ballstriking covers up decline in movement.

Not sure if you are aware, but Fed also had a minor groin injury at the AO.
About fed's movement ...

here from the AO 2017 semi :

Fed's movements looking sluggish at times... Hopefully he can relax a bit soon.
Federer's movement seemed very very off in the 4th and 5th set. Not sure if its related to the injury or just lack of regular tour matches in the last 6 months.
His movement has been sluggish all tournament, Stan will certainly illuminate it a fair amount.
I missed most of the first set, what I saw for most of the match (besides the second) was Federer scrapping and fighting and taking the crucial breaks to take the match. I wouldn't go as far as to say Federer had no business winning that match, he won more points overalll - but he certainly had to work for it.

Physically Federer looked just okay to me, especially in the fifth and after he got the break I thought Federer was playing much more freely. I do think his movement is still lacking even compared to 2015 but he was able to defend and hang in there with Stan in a lot of rallies despite facing big time pressure. My main worry is the serve, the percentage was quite low for him and he's going to need it to save his work rate in the final - especially against Nadal. Federer says the injury isn't a big deal, that might be an attempt to ease the pressure but as you say the 2 days off will certainly come in handy. This match was only 3 hours 4 minutes (Federer ran 1.2km IIRC), so despite being 5 sets it was a long match.

As far as beating Nadal goes I don't have much hope, I will never completely count Federer out but he has to be the underdog. I would favour Federer against Dimitrov in the final but not overwhelmingly so.
From the nishikori match , my own comments :

yes, movement is not 100% convincing, but ballstriking has been good ..
nah, FH is quite decent ...

Like I said before in this thread, we have 2 federers in this AO ..one who was struggled , been sluggish ...and one who has been very good ...
 
From the BBC website

25 June 2019

World number two Rafael Nadal says "it doesn't seem right" that he could be seeded behind world number three Roger Federer at Wimbledon. Wimbledon seeding is different from the other Grand Slams in that it does not always follow world rankings and is affected by grass-court performances. It means Federer may be seeded ahead of Nadal, who could be in the same half of the draw as Novak Djokovic.

"It's just Wimbledon that does it," said 12-time French Open winner Nadal. Speaking to Spanish TV station #Vamos, Nadal added: "If everyone did it, I think it would be appropriate or correct. Either way, being second or third seed, I have to play at the best level to aspire to the things I aspire to.

"It is better to be second than third, but if they consider that I have to be third, I will accept." Wimbledon seedings will be announced on Wednesday and Nadal, 33, is likely to be behind defending champion Djokovic and eight-time winner Federer, who won his 10th title at the grass-court tournament in Halle last week.
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From the BBC website

26 June 2019

World number two Rafael Nadal has been seeded third for Wimbledon this year behind top-ranked Novak Djokovic and world number three Roger Federer.

The Spaniard now has a 50-50 chance of being in the same half as Djokovic and thus could meet him in the semi-finals. Had he been second seed, rather than Federer, he could not have met the defending champion before the final.

Last year's finalist and world number eight Kevin Anderson is seeded fourth, and John Isner moves up to ninth after his run to the 2018 semi-finals. Anderson's elevation to fourth seed means Dominic Thiem, Alexander Zverev and Stefanos Tsitsipas all drop down one position in the seedings compared to their world ranking.
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They didn’t override the rankings last year. There’s just a different formula that’s used for Wimbledon which Roger led last year. It’s an explicit formula and everyone would have known Roger would be seeded #1.
 
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