2019 Nitto ATP Finals - WTF - The O2, London

Who wins the 2019 ATP Finals?


  • Total voters
    37
  • Poll closed .

tudwell

Legend
Thiem goes 3-0 probably so it's a straight shoot out for Fed-Djoko.
And even if Thiem were to lose to Berrettini (which lol), he’d be 2-1 with the H2H over whoever wins Djok-Fed, so Thiem will finish the group first if he beats Djokovic today.

I love how convoluted this tournament gets.
 

oldmanfan

Hall of Fame
@tennis_pro may have reached meme level, but his underlying point seems to have been a solid one.
Yup. Berr is the lowest in pts who qualified since WTF moved to the O2 in 2009, and the competition was getting weaker since 2014, especially the last 3 yrs. Unlike @tennis_pro , I think Berr has pretty good upside. Did you see some of his all-court play against Fedr here? His BH is his weakness, but it's no weaker than Z's FH. But in the ATP, stronger FHs (vs. BHs) win more matches if one wing is weaker (see Tsonga vs. Paire). Big Berr will be top10 for a few years at least. Maybe not consecutively.
 

icedevil0289

G.O.A.T.
what are the chances that novak blitzes thiem and then throws roger a bone because i assume at that point novak has already qualified
 

oldmanfan

Hall of Fame
what are the chances that novak blitzes thiem and then throws roger a bone because i assume at that point novak has already qualified
Unfortunately, not high. Djokr wants YE#1, so he'll need all the pts he can get. Even though Fedr might lose, at least we get another Fedovic match, and a live rubber at that. It'll become rarer going forward.
 

aldeayeah

Hall of Fame
Given that Nadal may end up 2nd in his group, I think Djokovic would want to secure 1st place to try to put him down in the semis.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Yup. Berr is the lowest in pts who qualified since WTF moved to the O2 in 2009, and the competition was getting weaker since 2014, especially the last 3 yrs. Unlike @tennis_pro , I think Berr has pretty good upside. Did you see some of his all-court play against Fedr here? His BH is his weakness, but it's no weaker than Z's FH. But in the ATP, stronger FHs (vs. BHs) win more matches if one wing is weaker (see Tsonga vs. Paire). Big Berr will be top10 for a few years at least. Maybe not consecutively.
He's your typical solid top 20 beats mugs sucks against actual good players kind of guy. Something like Ferrer 0.7. The only difference is that the competition is already a lot weaker than in 2012 f.e. but it's gonna be an absolute joke 3 years from now when he's gonna be at his peak. I could see him even win a Slam, no joke. That's how much the tour could suck in the future.
 

icedevil0289

G.O.A.T.
Unfortunately, not high. Djokr wants YE#1, so he'll need all the pts he can get. Even though Fedr might lose, at least we get another Fedovic match, and a live rubber at that. It'll become rarer going forward.
i'm sorry i fail to see how that is comforting in anyway. i've been done with this match up since wimbledon and it used to be the best of the big 4
 

MeatTornado

Legend
what are the chances that novak blitzes thiem and then throws roger a bone because i assume at that point novak has already qualified
More likely that Fed just beats him straight up than Novak throwing him a bone.

Obviously Novak's the heavy favorite, but Fed is still capable of winning a Bo3 match if he brings his best tennis. Way more likely than Novak giving Fed anything.
 

oldmanfan

Hall of Fame
He's your typical solid top 20 beats mugs sucks against actual good players kind of guy. Something like Ferrer 0.7. The only difference is that the competition is already a lot weaker than in 2012 f.e. but it's gonna be an absolute joke 3 years from now when he's gonna be at his peak. I could see him even win a Slam, no joke. That's how much the tour could suck in the future.
I get your meaning. And I too was a bit annoyed at his play against Nadl at USO19 bc Berr's level was good before that match, and Nadl was there for the taking.

For me, Berr has something that makes me think that he'll do very well going forward. I especially like his serve and FH. I also like his story as a pro. He and his parents made sure that he progresses slowly from Futures to Challengers before focusing on the ATP tour. They didn't try to jump into even ATP250s too early. That's clarity of thought and long-term planning (the Williams sisters went a similar route by skipping juniors to focus on their game). And Berr is probably the most complete all-court player along with Tsits. At this juncture, I think only Medipas and maybe Z are ahead of him, and only slightly, for those 23 and under. I just have a feeling that he'll do well among the youngsters, and especially going forward bc of the weaker tour like you said. Also, I think this is his first full year on tour, and he did very well.
 
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oldmanfan

Hall of Fame
i'm sorry i fail to see how that is comforting in anyway. i've been done with this match up since wimbledon and it used to be the best of the big 4
You can't win if you don't play. And Fedr likes a challenge. It's why he still plays; to challenge the youngsters (and oldsters alike). He even likes the challenge when Nadl owns him pre-2014. This is where many are wrong in calling Fedr mentally weak. If he was mentally weak, he wouldn't keep coming after being repeatedly knocked down against Nadalovic, and as a result, we Fedfans would not get the last 7 Fedal, with Fedr winning 6.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
More likely that Fed just beats him straight up than Novak throwing him a bone.

Obviously Novak's the heavy favorite, but Fed is still capable of winning a Bo3 match if he brings his best tennis. Way more likely than Novak giving Fed anything.
Sorry to see you flunked TTW Psychology 101. Whenever this result occurs, it will always be devalued and chalked up to Sudden Serbian Humanitarian Syndrome.
 

TennisFan3

Legend
Rafa may not end up being second in his group, he may not even go to the semis. His form against Zverev was way off. Worst level of play from Rafa since the Monte Carlo semi against the Fog.
I agree. Nadal might not even win a match this WTF. IMO it will be Zverev and TsTsiPas/Medvedev who qualify to go ahead.
 

oldmanfan

Hall of Fame
He can't beat Djokovic for 4 years now.
Which is quite different than 'not being competitive'. Djokr won their last 2 matches by the skin of his teeth, winning 5 straight TBs against Fedr.

You're tough on Nadl, but even after Nadl lost 6 straight against Fedr outside clay, I will always think Nadl has at least a close to 50% to beat Fedr when they meet going forward.
 
He can't beat Djokovic for 4 years now.
But that doesn't mean Federer didn't raise his level

Like in Bercy last year he went unbroken when just few days back he was getting broken 4-5 times by the likes of Krajinovic and Simon.

It wasn't enough because Djokovic clutched it out in the end.
Similar in Wimbledon,

Broken by Harris,Nishikori in first sets ,went unbroken for almost 4 sets.
 

Terry Tibbs

Professional
What if Djokovic beats Thiem, Thiem beats Berrettini & Fedr beats Djokovic :unsure:
That would be an interesting scenario as it would be if Djokovic and Berretini both beat Thiem and Djokovic beats Federer. 3 players then on 1 win each but one of them would still go through. Think it would come down to percentage of sets won, then percentage of games won, followed by pre-tournament rankings. If only 2 players are tied it comes down to the head to head result.
 

Terry Tibbs

Professional
Rafa may not end up being second in his group, he may not even go to the semis. His form against Zverev was way off. Worst level of play from Rafa since the Monte Carlo semi against the Fog.
I heard that Zverev played a blinder so the loss may have been more down to that than his own level of play.
 
I heard that Zverev played a blinder so the loss may have been more down to that than his own level of play.
Zverev was GOATing, but Nadal would have his chances if he didn't make so many unforced errors and stupid decisions. There were a few close games which could go differently if Nadal didn't hit a stupid forehand error at some point.
 

NoleFam

G.O.A.T.
Zverev was GOATing, but Nadal would have his chances if he didn't make so many unforced errors and stupid decisions. There were a few close games which could go differently if Nadal didn't hit a stupid forehand error at some point.
It was a lot more than his errors. From the first point I knew it was going to be a long day for Nadal. When he is looping his forehand like that with minimal aggression, he is asking to be punished, especially against a tall guy with a strong two handed backhand. His forehand was horrible yesterday and Zverev, with a weaker forehand, outwinnered him 13 to 3 on that side, or something along those lines.
 
It was a lot more than his errors. From the first point I knew it was going to be a long day for Nadal. When he is looping his forehand like that with minimal aggression, he is asking to be punished, especially against a tall guy with a strong two handed backhand. His forehand was horrible yesterday and Zverev, with a weaker forehand, outwinnered him 13 to 3 on that side, or something along those lines.
This is Nadal of the last few years. When his opponent plays very well he starts to panic and totally forgets how to play. This is what happened in AO 2019 as well. I said it many times, Nadal's prime was over after AO 2014. Yes, he had this resurgence in 2017-2019 and he won 5 slams in the last 3 years, but he is not even close to his prime level. And we see what happens when he meets a great playing opponent. Put prime Nadal in 2019 and he would probably have a better season than 2013.
 

tudwell

Legend
It doesn't matter if Federer hasn't been playing great here. He will up his level considerably against Djokovic. He does 90% of the time.
He usually comes out pretty sharp against Novak. Their first sets are almost always top notch. We’ll see if it’s enough to get the W this time.
 

NoleFam

G.O.A.T.
He usually comes out pretty sharp against Novak. Their first sets are almost always top notch. We’ll see if it’s enough to get the W this time.
I expect a close high quality match. Playing Djokovic and vice versa is different, because they are rivals who never want the other to show them up, at least not too much. Much pride on the line and with Djokovic, something even more important is on the line.
 

MeatTornado

Legend
He can't beat Djokovic for 4 years now.
So when Zverev had literally never beaten Rafa before, the outcome was never in doubt because "those who actually watched the matches" knew how close they were.

But you're completely discounting Roger's chances with like 20 career wins vs Novak and having match points in a slam final the last time they played?
 
So when Zverev had literally never beaten Rafa before, the outcome was never in doubt because "those who actually watched the matches" knew how close they were.

But you're completely discounting Roger's chances with like 20 career wins vs Novak and having match points in a slam final the last time they played?
Dude, do you REALLY want me to explain the difference? I wouldn't say Zverev is a lock to beating Nadal if their match was played on outdoor clay, you know.
 

MeatTornado

Legend
Dude, do you REALLY want me to explain the difference? I wouldn't say Zverev is a lock to beating Nadal if their match was played on outdoor clay, you know.
But indoor hard courts are far from Fed's worst surface. In fact, it's arguably his best.

And btw you said Berretini was a lock to beat Nadal at the USO, so don't act like you actually take surface into account when you do your handwringing.
 

mightyjeditribble

Hall of Fame
I was pretty sure that they've always played alternate days. Are you sure about 2013? Source?

Sent from my moto g(7) plus using Tapatalk
No I just checked Wikipedia and you're absolutely right.

I guess they changed when they changed the order of play to have losers of match 1 play each other, and winners of match 1 likewise. Otherwise it wouldn't work.

Edit. Yes, it changed in this way from 2014.
 
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