2019 Rome FINAL: Novak Djokovic (1) vs Rafael Nadal (2)

Who will win their 34th masters title?

  • Djokovic in 2

    Votes: 32 21.8%
  • Djokovic in 3

    Votes: 26 17.7%
  • Nadal in 2

    Votes: 47 32.0%
  • Nadal in 3

    Votes: 42 28.6%

  • Total voters
    147
So they actually gutted out, and constructed a new court?
New chairs and new surroundijg structure, but the clay and court dimensiones are expected to be the same.

Which, in principle, favors Nadal, as he loves very big courts where he can return well behind the baseline.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
So they actually gutted out, and constructed a new court?
Yes, they took it all out because they were moving building material over it. So it is different now. No matter how much you try to make it the same, it will never be identical IMO. These players will notice it. How much of an impact or how significant it will be, I don't know, depends on the player to a degree, but I have heard it does not play the same way as it did in the past. Not 100%.
 
For most other players yes but ask Nadal himself where he'd have better chances to win a 5 setter and he's choose RG in a heart beat. It's where he's most comfortable, mentally and physically.
As I said. It's not 2010-2011 anymore. He is better off on faster courts. Hence him working on his serve.
 
New chairs and new surroundijg structure, but the clay and court dimensiones are expected to be the same.

Which, in principle, favors Nadal, as he loves very big courts where he can return well behind the baseline.
Well Hitman says they gutted it out. Newly constructed court it seems.
 
Well when a guy like Tsitsipas says he thinks it is harder to play Nadal on hard than on clay, as he is more aggressive and takes time away, I will take that on board.
So Tsitsipas is now our new expert in judging players? Nadal never was better on hardcourt than on clay, and never will be. We all saw how he plays against his main rivals on hardcourt recently-not so good at the very least. This is all what matters IMO. Tsitsipas needs to work a lot for me to to judge the form of a player by a win over him. He is not even close to this right now.
 
As I said. It's not 2010-2011 anymore. He is better off on faster courts. Hence him working on his serve.
Even then who is capable of taking Nadal to 5 sets at RG? Only Djokovic and Thiem I see and Djokovic is older now too compared to 2011-2015 so he'll also feel the effects physically, even more so after reaching these two clay finals. I wouldn't trust Thiem to get a 5 set win over Nadal at RG, he'd be all over the place in the last set.

Though if Nadal were to play them consecutively then it'd be a different thing.

But rarely has Nadal even been taken to 5 sets at RG in the first place. Even in 2017-2018, no one did it.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
So Tsitsipas is now our new expert in judging players? Nadal never was better on hardcourt than on clay, and never will be. We all saw how he plays against his main rivals on hardcourt recently-not so good at the very least. This is all what matters IMO. Tsitsipas needs to work a lot for me to to judge the form of a player by a win over him. He is not even close to this right now.
Nadal was better on HC than on clay pre-2005, I remember it very well. His game was actually designed for HC not clay, until Toni changed it.

The statement is more about Nadal's aggression, he is now more aggressive on non-clay surfaces, look at his Wimbledon 2018 run, and even look at other places. He is taking time away and playing first strike tennis and that is hurting a lot of players. Tsitispas feels Nadal gives him more time to play his game on clay, but on hard, he rushes him. Remember, tennis is about match ups, there is no universal answer for everything.
 
Even then who is capable of taking Nadal to 5 sets at RG? Only Djokovic and Thiem I see and Djokovic is older now too compared to 2011-2015 so he'll also feel the effects physically, even more so after reaching these two clay finals. I wouldn't trust Thiem to get a 5 set win over Nadal at RG, he'd be all over the place in the last set.

Though if Nadal were to play them consecutively then it'd be a different thing.

But rarely has Nadal even been taken to 5 sets at RG in the first place. Even in 2017-2018, no one did it.
You are obviously not the greatest at analysing the different styles these guys play, and how much more miles on the meter each style puts on the meter.

Let me give you a hint. Distance from the baseline matters.
 
You are obviously not the greatest at analysing the different styles these guys play, and how much more miles on the meter each style puts on the meter.

Let me give you a hint. Distance from the baseline matters.
Trying to school me on styles when a certain style has won Nadal 11 RGs?

Okay.
 
Nadal was better on HC than on clay pre-2005, I remember it very well. His game was actually designed for HC not clay, until Toni changed it.

The statement is more about Nadal's aggression, he is now more aggressive on non-clay surfaces, look at his Wimbledon 2018 run, and even look at other places. He is taking time away and playing first strike tennis and that is hurting a lot of players. Tsitispas feels Nadal gives him more time to play his game on clay, but on hard, he rushes him. Remember, tennis is about match ups, there is no universal answer for everything.
It depends on Nadal's confidence too. This time he was hitting many forehand winners against Tsitsipas. The topspin on clay lets him hit winners when his game is on. When he is low on confidence he isn't aggressive anywhere.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Could someone please give me a better account of the 1st set against Schwartzman ? Was it gruelling?
It was a tough, but with clean ball striking. The quality was really good, very deep hitting. He wasn't being brutally battered in that set though. He just had to make sure he was playing at a good level throughout.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
It depends on Nadal's confidence too. This time he was hitting many forehand winners against Tsitsipas. The topspin on clay lets him hit winners when his game is on. When he is low on confidence he isn't aggressive anywhere.
True, but IMO Tsitsipas was still allowed to play his game due to the slowness of the court. In AO, on the faster court, he was blown off of it and had no time to react. So it depends on the match up.
 
True, but IMO Tsitsipas was still allowed to play his game due to the slowness of the court. In AO, on the faster court, he was blown off of it and had no time to react. So it depends on the match up.
Maybe Tsitsipas just played bad there? In Toronto 2018 they had a tough match on hardcourt.
 

Luka888

Professional
I don't know. Nadal will be fresh but Djokovic is a bad match up for him. I wasn't too impressed with Novak today. Still when he plays Nadal, some inner beast wakes up. Who knows? I'd say 50 50.

Djokovic had a tougher draw and both Diego and Potro threw everything at him. Somehow he still managed to win. If Djokovic serves well it's going to tough for Rafa.
 
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This has 2016 written all over it. Djokovic battles through the tougher opponents in back to back matches while his opponent breezed through in straight sets the whole way. I think Nadal has the edge this time but I also won't be surprised if Djokovic guts this out because I think he is hitting the ball better right now. It depends how Djokovic feels tomorrow but Nadal with the edge now.
Not only did Novak have the tougher opponents and matches but Nadal got the afternoon match while Novak had to play till 10-11 PM and has to come back at 4 PM the next day to play Nadal. These two tournaments, Madird and Rome are very poorly scheduled in every way, which in some ways makes them more difficult to win than the Slams. If these two tournaments are only going to be 7 day events, they should not be played in consecutive weeks but should have at least one week between them.
 
Not only did Novak have the tougher opponents and matches but Nadal got the afternoon match while Novak had to play till 10-11 PM and has to come back at 4 PM the next day to play Nadal. These two tournaments, Madird and Rome are very poorly scheduled in every way, which in some ways makes them more difficult to win than the Slams. If these two tournaments are only going to be 7 day events, they should not be played in consecutive weeks but should have at least one week between them.
I agree the back to back Madrid and Rome schedule is just a disaster.
 
By the way, we discuss the mental part but I'm interested to know what is Nadal's physical form right now. Somehow he almost didn't play close matches this year-he either won easy or lost easy. He had a three set match against Tsitsipas in Madrid and he looked very tired in the third set. On the other hand Djokovic looked fine after playing two long matches in the last two days. If Nadal really has physical problems then we can just forget about him winning RG.
 
The back to back Madrid and Rome schedule is so favored towards the top clay guys.

The second tier guys are cooked by the time they come to Rome having played all the weeks after Miami. It is like a walk in the park for the top 4 clay guys.

That and the so called the best of the next gen- Thiem and Zverev are just sucking so badly at this time - makes it so easy for the top dogs to make the Rome finals time and time again. Their 'B' levels are more than enough for the tour.
 
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uscwang

Hall of Fame
Vote Nadal in 2.
Nadal lost 13 games in the whole tournament.
Novak lost that many in his last match.
No contest in Roma. Novak may play the 1st set hard to assess Nadal though.
Expect a huge battle in RG.
 
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