2019 Rome FINAL: Novak Djokovic (1) vs Rafael Nadal (2)

Who will win their 34th masters title?

  • Djokovic in 2

    Votes: 32 21.8%
  • Djokovic in 3

    Votes: 26 17.7%
  • Nadal in 2

    Votes: 47 32.0%
  • Nadal in 3

    Votes: 42 28.6%

  • Total voters
    147

duaneeo

Hall of Fame
I think Djokovic will beat Nadal, which is the best outcome. With no clay title, Nadal would head into Roland Garros with a lack of confidence. With two clay Masters, Djokovic would head into Roland Garros as the favorite--adding to the pressure of winning another NCYGS and CGS.
 

Feather

Legend
Well when a guy like Tsitsipas says he thinks it is harder to play Nadal on hard than on clay, as he is more aggressive and takes time away, I will take that on board.
I agree with you.

The scoreline also suggests so. In Melbourne, Tsitsipas was slaughtered. I expected worse on clay when they played on Madrid but Tsitsipas won! Even yesterday, it was competitive in Rome. No way, it can be compared to Melbourne match.

Rafa plays better on hard courts than on clay. Also on grass , he is more deadly in the last two years. He would have mostly made the final in 2017 if not for Mueller loss and if not for Novak Djokovic, probably would have won Wimbledon 2018
 

Tiki-Taka

Hall of Fame
54th meeting, for the Masters record... These two are so special. Whatever the outcome, I think we have a great Roland Garros ahead of us.

Best of luck to both, I hope they give us another match to remember. Rafa has done better in Rome this week but you can't ignore Novak's better form in 2019 as well as the recent big matches that he won in this rivalry. Very pleased that he recovered from his struggles before mid 2018. He looks really determined to remain the best on the big occasions for a bit longer.
 
I think Djokovic will beat Nadal, which is the best outcome. With no clay title, Nadal would head into Roland Garros with a lack of confidence. With two clay Masters, Djokovic would head into Roland Garros as the favorite--adding to the pressure of winning another NCYGS and CGS.
Which in your view means that Federer might win Roland Garros?
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
I told you not to tell me. thanks a lot. anyway, what if Novak wins tomorrow ?? Does that mean RAFA has no chance at the Rolland garros ?
 

tudwell

Legend
I think Djokovic will beat Nadal, which is the best outcome. With no clay title, Nadal would head into Roland Garros with a lack of confidence. With two clay Masters, Djokovic would head into Roland Garros as the favorite--adding to the pressure of winning another NCYGS and CGS.
The perfect moment for Thiem to strike.
 

DSH

Hall of Fame
I think Djokovic will beat Nadal, which is the best outcome. With no clay title, Nadal would head into Roland Garros with a lack of confidence. With two clay Masters, Djokovic would head into Roland Garros as the favorite--adding to the pressure of winning another NCYGS and CGS.
Djokovic will be never be the favorite against Nadal on clay, much less at RG when the Spaniard is light years ahead of the competition, yes, this include the Serbian.
Strength in numbers;

86 wins 2 defeats
11 titles in 11 finals.
He only lose 6 sets in all the finals he played there.

On clay, the match is always in Nadal's racket.
Never forget that.
:p
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Djokovic will be never be the favorite against Nadal on clay, much less at RG when the Spaniard is light years ahead of the competition, yes, this include the Serbian.
Strength in numbers;

86 wins 2 defeats
11 titles in 11 finals.
He only lose 6 sets in all the finals he played there.

On clay, the match is always in Nadal's racket.
Never forget that.
:p
We forget how epic the king is :) I forgot he's already won Rome 8 times o_O

 

DSH

Hall of Fame
I agree with you.

The scoreline also suggests so. In Melbourne, Tsitsipas was slaughtered. I expected worse on clay when they played on Madrid but Tsitsipas won! Even yesterday, it was competitive in Rome. No way, it can be compared to Melbourne match.

Rafa plays better on hard courts than on clay. Also on grass , he is more deadly in the last two years. He would have mostly made the final in 2017 if not for Mueller loss and if not for Novak Djokovic, probably would have won Wimbledon 2018
Not likely, the reality is that he would have defeated Anderson as easily as Djokovic did.
Wimbledon 2018 semifinals is a mirror of what was RG 2013 also in the semifinals.
Those matches were the real final.
The last match in those majors was only a procedure for the winners.
 

BeatlesFan

Talk Tennis Guru
Betting odds have Nadal as a clear favourite though.
Novak's won 13 of the their last 16 matches. Nadal winning tomorrow (even on clay) would be almost as surprising as Fed beating Rafa in the 2017 AO final. Mental ownership has only been reversed in the Open era twice: Lendl getting the best of Mac from 1985 on and Fed (so far) overturning his mental demons against Nadal the past 4 years.
 

BeatlesFan

Talk Tennis Guru
Plus he is mentally spooked.

Even if he were 100% mentally, he would still lose because he is not at his best. With mental issues, it will be a demolition.
The fact the Djokovic fans don't even realize this is beyond belief. Almost all picking Nadal to beat him, which is bizarre.
 

TennisFan3

Legend
The fact the Djokovic fans don't even realize this is beyond belief. Almost all picking Nadal to beat him, which is bizarre.
Djokovic fans are just being conservative and risk averse. In the very unlikely event that an Asteroid crashes on planet earth as we all die = Nadal beating Djokovic ---- in that remote event, they want to be covered.

Basically when Djoko wins in straight sets, they want to trumpet how good Djokovic is and that he is invincible.

Fact is, Nadal is probably the easiest matchup for Novak. Even a sub-par Novak troubles Nadal because of the matchup issues. Dominating/beating Nadal is what gives Novak confidence. Sort of what Nadal USED TO BE for Federer.
Story would have been different if we had a lean/fit Stanimal or non-choking Thiem.
I actually would not use a Nadal demolition to gauge Djokovic's level. That is just routine for Djokovic.
 
Wanting has nothing to do with who wins. The one who plays better and matches up better wins. (hint: Novak)
Do you think all the recent times that Nadal lost to Fed/Djoko he did NOT want to win those matches as much as Fed/Novak did?
Nole has nothing to play for tomorrow. He’s passed his pre FO test already. Nadal’s intrinsic motivation for this tournament far greater.
 
B

BrokenGears

Guest
Djokovic fans are just being conservative and risk averse. In the very unlikely event that an Asteroid crashes on planet earth as we all die = Nadal beating Djokovic ---- in that remote event, they want to be covered.

Basically when Djoko wins in straight sets, they want to trumpet how good Djokovic is and that he is invincible.

Fact is, Nadal is probably the easiest matchup for Novak. Even a sub-par Novak troubles Nadal because of the matchup issues. Dominating/beating Nadal is what gives Novak confidence. Sort of what Nadal USED TO BE for Federer.
Story would have been different if we had a lean/fit Stanimal or non-choking Thiem.
I actually would not use a Nadal demolition to gauge Djokovic's level. That is just routine for Djokovic.
Betting odds are more accurate than you and BeatlesFan
 

TennisFan3

Legend
Nole has nothing to play for tomorrow. He’s passed his pre FO test already. Nadal’s intrinsic motivation for this tournament far greater.
I'm still not able to understand. What has motivation got to do with anything?
You can have all the motivation in the world, but what happens if you cannot execute?
I also have all the motivation to beat Novak or the motivation to become the richest person in the world. Does it mean that any of that will happen? Exactly.
 

chjtennis

G.O.A.T.
This time, I think it's advantage Nadal. Djokovic played a couple of tough long matches in the last two days while Nadal had it pretty easy. They are no spring chickens anymore and Djokovic will feel the pain and aches. Of course, Djokovic is more than capable of pulling it off, but if I had to, I'd put my money on Nadal purely because he should be much fresher, especially when he hasn't played as much throughout the clay season so far while Djokovic has played 9 matches and is onto his 10th now in the past 2 weeks. Nadal grinds a win out in 3, in 3 hours.
 

NuBas

Legend
I think Djokovic will beat Nadal, which is the best outcome. With no clay title, Nadal would head into Roland Garros with a lack of confidence. With two clay Masters, Djokovic would head into Roland Garros as the favorite--adding to the pressure of winning another NCYGS and CGS.
Djokovic won Madrid and what else?
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
Novak's won 13 of the their last 16 matches. Nadal winning tomorrow (even on clay) would be almost as surprising as Fed beating Rafa in the 2017 AO final. Mental ownership has only been reversed in the Open era twice: Lendl getting the best of Mac from 1985 on and Fed (so far) overturning his mental demons against Nadal the past 4 years.
I'm picking Nadal in two sets. 13/16 means nothing on clay. Nadal was awful everywhere for 2015-2016, and that's when Novak beat him three times in a row on clay, when he was otherwise pretty much on top of the world. The last two clay matches went to Nadal in straight sets. I think Nadal's team has plugged some holes, and I think Novak is not (yet) at his best on clay. He needs to be his best on clay on a day when Nadal is not, exactly the reverse of when they meet on faster surfaces. I can't believe a guy who barely won against Schwatzman and who has had long matches this week will be mentally on top tomorrow.

But we shall see. ;)
 

DSH

Hall of Fame
Do you recall the betting orders before the AO 2019 Final?
Hardcourt now equals clay?
Please, those who think that Nadal will be defeated before the match (as it was in Australia), against the Serbian on slow courts, is wrong and is ignorant to continue believing that Djokovic is favorite and superior to Spaniard even on clay.
The reality is that if Nadal does not hesitate, if he does not have those mental lapses that happen to him when he faces Djokovic, he is clearly superior not only for today's game but especially in the event of an eventual final between both in RG in a few weeks (with the Thiem's permission) where the Spaniard has a perfect mark there in that instance and where he has a clear dominance there in personal confrontations and that would have been much greater if Djokovic had not lost the last two years in advance.
 
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Tennisgods

Hall of Fame
So, a Djokodal final in the last warmup before FO.
Can we name and shame those dudes who had Thiem as a favourite for FO over both these men? I think we deserve a period of respectful silence from them while they take a good hard look at themselves.
I’ve got Djokovic to win this one, he’s retrieving everything at the moment, his defensive game looks somewhere near peak. An absolute wall and Nadal isn’t getting past him right now.
 

weakera

Legend
This is a pretty massive match in terms of the h2h if you think about it from Rafa's perspective. If he falls 4 under .500, you get the feeling he will never come close again, whereas if he gets to 2 there's at least some semblance of hope.
 

Big_Dangerous

Talk Tennis Guru
Their 5th final in Rome, on no other tournament they have same or more mutual finals.
2009 - Nadal won 7:6(2), 6:2


2011 - Djoker won 6:4, 6:4


2012 - Nadal won 7:5, 6:3


2014 - Djoker won 4:6, 6:3, 6:3


Who will win this time? :cool:
Lol, I like how Djokovic is wearing 3 different apparel brands in those series of pictures. And tomorrow it'll be 4 since he'll be wearing the Lacoste.

In any case, I just don't know how much Novak has left in the tank. In addition to playing really tough physical 3 set matches in the quarters and semis, he also played very late into the night on both occasions. It'll be awfully difficult for him to recover and play a final against Rafa at around 4 PM local time, when he gutted out a tough 3 set match win against Schwartzman that didn't finish until around 11 PM. And the previous night, his match against Del Potro, where he had to save match points in that second set tiebreaker, didn't finish until well after midnight.
 

weakera

Legend
I don't see the fatigue as a problem for Nole at all, personally. I'll believe fatigue is a problem for him in a final when it causes him to lose during his gluten free days. The dude is a freak of nature who decimated Anderson in straights the day following two consecutive Rafa wars, he can handle a bo3 tournament.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
I don't see the fatigue as a problem for Nole at all, personally. I'll believe fatigue is a problem for him in a final when it causes him to lose during his gluten free days. The dude is a freak of nature who decimated Anderson in straights the day following two consecutive Rafa wars, he can handle a bo3 tournament.
Agree. The Mummy is never tired. He'll show up.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
This is a pretty massive match in terms of the h2h if you think about it from Rafa's perspective. If he falls 4 under .500, you get the feeling he will never come close again, whereas if he gets to 2 there's at least some semblance of hope.
Does RAFA have a mental block against nole now ? does he get discouraged when novak starts to handle him from the baseline ?
 
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