2019 Shanghai Masters Main Thread

Who wins this stellar competition??


  • Total voters
    44
  • Poll closed .

TennisFan3

Legend
Five years rivalry between Novak and Mad Lad would be very good news for Mad Lad. As Djoko gets older grinding him down will get easier.
Djokovic in slams is a different animal. These guys like Mad lad, TsiTsipas will have no chance. Novak doesn't care about Mickey mouse tournaments.
It would be hard for anyone to stop Novak in slams until he eventually gets old. Don't think next gen are good enough.
 

mightyjeditribble

Hall of Fame
So Med, Thiem, Tsitsi & Zverev at 4-7 in the race; Berrettini at 9 would overtake Agut if he were to beat Thiem.

Could it be these five plus the big 3 at WTF? Would be a good field.


Edit. Just realised Tsitsipas has qualified. So only two spots left. I hope Street makes it as defending champion.
 

ForumMember

Hall of Fame
Djokovic in slams is a different animal. These guys like Mad lad, TsiTsipas will have no chance. Novak doesn't care about Mickey mouse tournaments.
It would be hard for anyone to stop Novak in slams until he eventually gets old. Don't think next gen are good enough.
yes.. he either cares about 500's like Tokyo or Grand slams but has an aversion with having masters title.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
maybe years later (or could be just next year) when looking back, what happened in Beijing and Shanghai 2019 was the turning point for ATP
Full NextGen SF lineup in Shanghai tops Beijing. In years, will it match “Cincinnati-The Real Slam” weekend of 2009 that made someone a TTW legend???
 

3fees

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic and Federer out,, Medleydev is odds on favorite for the title,, Big 2 bite the dust, Thiem lost as well. lol

Cheers
3Fees :)
 

toby55555

Hall of Fame
He cared about this tournament. Don't be ridiculous.
It’s not that the Big3 don’t care about these tournaments it’s just they care mostly for the Slams and gear their year to winning those. Surely no one reads anything into losses outside the Slams anymore?
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
Shanghai’19...The Real Slam 2.0.

Who do you have?:

1. Russian Bullsheet Artist

2. Cowardly Lion of Hamburg

3. Elegant stroking Greek with shoelace problems

4. Italian big enough to Berrettini hug his way to the title

???
 

James P

Hall of Fame
Shanghai’19...The Real Slam 2.0.

Who do you have?:

1. Russian Bullsheet Artist

2. Cowardly Lion of Hamburg

3. Elegant stroking Greek with shoelace problems

4. Italian big enough to Berrettini hug his way to the title

???
I'm team Bullsheet all the way, but wouldn't be mad if any of the other three won this.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
One thing's for certain, there will be 2 first time finalists on Sunday and a guaranteed first time champion!
For Shanghai specifically? Yeah, but Medvedev has won a M1K to join Zedraffe in that club. Shoesypas has also made a final. Only Berrettini is new to this level.
 

James P

Hall of Fame
Poor RBA. Potential he becomes a bridesmaid yet again. Laver Cup alternate and ATF Final alternate? Man, that would suck.
 

ForumMember

Hall of Fame
One Genuine query, if Shanghai is outdoor tournament, why do we never see any kinda sunlight?

it never looks like if matches are in open courts.
 

yokied

Professional
Its a bit gray looking at this... I'll comment on the bolded players in particular who are your LostGen that leave your bored.
Mad Lad has been the number one player since Wimbledon and his lead over Nadal should widen considerably:
1 Daniil Medvedev 23 3350
2 Rafael Nadal 33 3000
3 Andrey Rublev 21 795
4 David Goffin 28 790 - not a slam threat, but hardly a boring player
5 Matteo Berrettini 23 775
6 Gael Monfils 33 775 - has the skills, but injury may hold him back from top of the game
7 Grigor Dimitrov 28 760 - remarkable that Grigor has been unremarkable, his post US Open scares me
8 Diego Schwartzman 27 745
9 Nikoloz Basilashvili 27 735 (500 in Hamburg again)
10 Albert Ramos-Vinolas 31 664 - last gasp, but nice to see something after some good clay play 2 years ago
11 Nick Kyrgios 24 645
12 Richard Gasquet 33 570
13 Alexander Zverev 22 550
14 Alex de Minaur 20 550
15 Novak Djokovic 32 540 - same issue as Thiem I suspect, missing at least 200 points
16 Dominic Thiem 26 530 - the site I got this is not thrilling me because Thiem has a 250 and 500 in the bag so this is at least 200 points off
17 Pablo Carreno Busta 28 507 - perhaps not WTF material, but a nice, nice top 20 player.
18 John Isner 34 475 - might have chopped the 250 from Newport on Big John
19 Karen Khachanov 23 460
20 Roger Federer 38 450

Looking at your LostGen and other type older pigeons, I'd say Isner and Dimitrov would be the ones that would not surprise me entirely if they were relevant in 2020. PCB and Goffin look great right now as well. Murray to my eyes looks on track for the top ten maybe even higher in 2020. Goffin has been a bit of a bore because he looks like he might return to WTF, but ultimately I'd agree with your boredom at the thought of Goffin holding back the big 3.:sneaky:

If Berrettini is the modern servebot well I'm all in because his game is exciting to say the least. On the Italian front it will be interesting if Fognini can mount a WTF charge and he's been held back by some minor leg injury.

I'm rather enjoying these players that appear to bore you. And Beijing's final 4 produce three great matches on the weekend. Zverev v Tsitsipas, Thiem v Khachanov, and Tsitsipas v Thiem. 2017 had a comparable group. 2005 & 2008 had a good prospective SF lineups as well, but as for tennis quality 2019 is Beijing's best final 4 by a wide margin. All of the contestants in 2019 have had had Recent Elos of 5 or higher in the last year and those not near their peak appear to quickly come into form in Beijing. (All 4 in round of 16 in Shanghai).
Sorry for the late reply but I watch the tennis before I poast, unlike many.

I love Coffin's style and watch plenty of his matches, including all of them with PCB this year, whom I also like. Like you said, they're simply not going to win any tournaments facing decent competition, so I don't get too excited. When players like that play each other, like I said the battle for 5-30 in the rankings, they all know they're never going to win anything serious so they play freely with little pressure. The matches usually end up being pretty high quality, but as soon as they win through to play the kings, they implode.

Grigolo and Guru are absolute f***ing clowns and you know it. Surely you trolljest about Jisner and tall-short-slow-man Gasquet? You can @ me about some performance here or there by Grigolo or Guru but that's the point - they performed at their potential when it mattered what, once, twice, and lost anyway? The rest has been smashed racquets and 720 degree smashes. They're even worse to watch than Coffin and PCB. PCB's ground and all court game is criminally underrated but his serve is also criminally underdeveloped. If he gets his serve sorted, watch out.

Berrettini is a mentally tough Sock. The BH is the fatal weakness there and there's always someone around who likes to play topspin to the BH, no? Fog would be a very interesting prospect at WTF because he can beat anyone except Fed, but he definitely has some leg niggle. I think Fog's fitness is the only reason Murray was even partially in the match. Murray isn't going to be top 10 again, not even close. And he's made no real adjustments or developments to become a better attacking player (or any more watchable).

Fed's coaching of the Rot at Laver Cup did seem to backfire on him but Zed is still not a threat IMHO. He lacks the utter bottomless pit of self belief and defensive touch to be king. That could change, but sitting 2-3m behind the baseline and hoping to blaze his way to glory isn't going to help. The muscle comment was a joke about Zed's comments all through the year about all the work he has been doing, seemingly working on every muscle except the one that matters... But you're right, watching drowning desperate Rot writhing around snatching at points is good, possibly the peak Rot experience. This disaster recovery mission will definitely help his character.

Speaking of drowning men snatching at points, I used to be a Thiem fan too but he has just been too stupid for too long. He is too slow on the takeback for groundies - all the other problems flow from that - he needs a full rebuild of the FH at a minimum and maybe some major work on the BH too. He has also allowed too much scar tissue to be built up with big, soft losses to the Nadal. He has lost half a step already, without a physical injury - burgers IMHO. He is damaged and he knows it. I think he's too far gone and can only come back after really feeling it for a few years watching lower-powered players succeed.

Remember, pretty much everyone who has succeeded during the year is tired by this stage of the season. It's no coincidence that the players winning now had pretty slow starts to the year (Med) or were injured. There's only one player to have a genuine career-defining run late this year and that's Med. The rest is just noise.

You've also got to ask yourself, what kind of diamond age is this? What kind of Diamond Age do we want? Diamond Age Minor League? Diamond Age But Only BO3 kthx? We want all courts, all surfaces, open, BO5 no ****ing around Diamond Age. That means recreating your avatar, time after time after f***ing time until Fred, Noel and Ralph just give up and go back to Switzerbiapain.

Right now, Noel is 100% tanking. Whether it started at the USO or after is open to interpretation, so maybe poast-USO. It looks like he has written off the rest of this season. Maybe Ultron shows up at WTF, maybe not, but AO20 will be a verrrrry different story for all of them. Have a look at that AO19 final again. He'll be right there waiting for them with a smile and a heart throw, whichever bright young thing comes crashing through the door on that fateful Sunday...

Med can have his little stares down the court after dusting off Sissy and Rot in BO3 Masters nonsense, but let's see him at AO20. As far as I can see, Ultron has only two weaknesses: returning non-stop 1st serves and reading OHBH DTL at 80+mph. GLWT.

There was some good tennis in Tokyo-Beiijing-Shanghai and they tried so hard and got so far, but in the end, it doesn't even matter...

 

James P

Hall of Fame
Medvedev gave Ultron the best match at AO19 and he wasn't even the Mad Lad yet. Will he surely defeat Nole? I dunno, I don't count out an ATG, but I'd be careful begging for Medvedev. I don't think he's redlining anymore, he's just dropped it into a higher gear and this is his new speed.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Sorry for the late reply but I watch the tennis before I poast, unlike many.

I love Coffin's style and watch plenty of his matches, including all of them with PCB this year, whom I also like. Like you said, they're simply not going to win any tournaments facing decent competition, so I don't get too excited. When players like that play each other, like I said the battle for 5-30 in the rankings, they all know they're never going to win anything serious so they play freely with little pressure. The matches usually end up being pretty high quality, but as soon as they win through to play the kings, they implode.

Grigolo and Guru are absolute f***ing clowns and you know it. Surely you trolljest about Jisner and tall-short-slow-man Gasquet? You can @ me about some performance here or there by Grigolo or Guru but that's the point - they performed at their potential when it mattered what, once, twice, and lost anyway? The rest has been smashed racquets and 720 degree smashes. They're even worse to watch than Coffin and PCB. PCB's ground and all court game is criminally underrated but his serve is also criminally underdeveloped. If he gets his serve sorted, watch out.

Berrettini is a mentally tough Sock. The BH is the fatal weakness there and there's always someone around who likes to play topspin to the BH, no? Fog would be a very interesting prospect at WTF because he can beat anyone except Fed, but he definitely has some leg niggle. I think Fog's fitness is the only reason Murray was even partially in the match. Murray isn't going to be top 10 again, not even close. And he's made no real adjustments or developments to become a better attacking player (or any more watchable).

Fed's coaching of the Rot at Laver Cup did seem to backfire on him but Zed is still not a threat IMHO. He lacks the utter bottomless pit of self belief and defensive touch to be king. That could change, but sitting 2-3m behind the baseline and hoping to blaze his way to glory isn't going to help. The muscle comment was a joke about Zed's comments all through the year about all the work he has been doing, seemingly working on every muscle except the one that matters... But you're right, watching drowning desperate Rot writhing around snatching at points is good, possibly the peak Rot experience. This disaster recovery mission will definitely help his character.

Speaking of drowning men snatching at points, I used to be a Thiem fan too but he has just been too stupid for too long. He is too slow on the takeback for groundies - all the other problems flow from that - he needs a full rebuild of the FH at a minimum and maybe some major work on the BH too. He has also allowed too much scar tissue to be built up with big, soft losses to the Nadal. He has lost half a step already, without a physical injury - burgers IMHO. He is damaged and he knows it. I think he's too far gone and can only come back after really feeling it for a few years watching lower-powered players succeed.

Remember, pretty much everyone who has succeeded during the year is tired by this stage of the season. It's no coincidence that the players winning now had pretty slow starts to the year (Med) or were injured. There's only one player to have a genuine career-defining run late this year and that's Med. The rest is just noise.

You've also got to ask yourself, what kind of diamond age is this? What kind of Diamond Age do we want? Diamond Age Minor League? Diamond Age But Only BO3 kthx? We want all courts, all surfaces, open, BO5 no ****ing around Diamond Age. That means recreating your avatar, time after time after f***ing time until Fred, Noel and Ralph just give up and go back to Switzerbiapain.

Right now, Noel is 100% tanking. Whether it started at the USO or after is open to interpretation, so maybe poast-USO. It looks like he has written off the rest of this season. Maybe Ultron shows up at WTF, maybe not, but AO20 will be a verrrrry different story for all of them. Have a look at that AO19 final again. He'll be right there waiting for them with a smile and a heart throw, whichever bright young thing comes crashing through the door on that fateful Sunday...

Med can have his little stares down the court after dusting off Sissy and Rot in BO3 Masters nonsense, but let's see him at AO20. As far as I can see, Ultron has only two weaknesses: returning non-stop 1st serves and reading OHBH DTL at 80+mph. GLWT.

There was some good tennis in Tokyo-Beiijing-Shanghai and they tried so hard and got so far, but in the end, it doesn't even matter...

Well at least we are on agreement on the LostGen probably staying lost with all the other pigeons and now we're just waiting to see how the rest of the NextGen younger than Medvedev develop.

Part of Medvedev's level is just the sheer number of matches he's played. Could be back to earth by the time 2020 rolls around.

I'm not sure about Djoko 100% tanking and suspect Stefanos will not be a player he'll want to see much of in the future. Djoko's level actually looked excellent even early on in the Tsitsipas match. I think the relative fate of all these players is a bit draw dependent now. Medvedev looks fairly resilient to all but perhaps Fed.

Best of three does matter. World Tour Finals is quite important as is achieving #1 and year end #1. These two may be NextGen's in 2020, if not a major.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Medvedev gave Ultron the best match at AO19 and he wasn't even the Mad Lad yet. Will he surely defeat Nole? I dunno, I don't count out an ATG, but I'd be careful begging for Medvedev. I don't think he's redlining anymore, he's just dropped it into a higher gear and this is his new speed.
Will the Mad Lad be demented enough to throw caution aside and play Vienna if he makes the Moscow final?:unsure: If he runs tables in WTF and Nadal goes out quickly like 2017 would 3000 points be enough to pass Nadal?
 

James P

Hall of Fame
Will the Mad Lad be demented enough to throw caution aside and play Vienna if he makes the Moscow final?:unsure: If he runs tables in WTF and Nadal goes out quickly like 2017 would 3000 points be enough to pass Nadal?
He can't pass Nadal until AO2020, no matter what. Unless ATP Cup has a bigger factor than I think it does. He has a microscopic chance of passing Djokovic, but realistically it's not happening unless Djoker shuts it down for the rest of the season. He's probably about 50/50, maybe a little better, that he'll be ahead of Roger by 2020. It'll come down to Paris and London (and Basel and Vienna).
 

Mike Sams

Legend
Medvedev must be on drugs or something. Dude is making finals of everything and not even getting tired even after really difficult and physically tough matches. :unsure:
 
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