2019 Thiem in 2023, how would he stack up to Chaz?

Who wins across these tournaments?

  • Thiem would win on HC and clay

    Votes: 5 10.9%

  • Alcaraz would win on HC and clay

    Votes: 14 30.4%

  • They would split wins in a lot of close matches

    Votes: 18 39.1%

  • Thiem would win on HC, Alcaraz on clay

    Votes: 1 2.2%

  • Alcaraz would win on HC, Thiem on clay

    Votes: 8 17.4%
  • Total voters
    46
jl809

jl809

Legend
2019 Thiem
- Lost early with injury at the AO
- Won Indian Wells beating Fed
- lost in Miami to Hubi Doo
- Won Barcelona beating Nadal en route
- Lost in Madrid SFs 7-6 7-6 to Djokovic
- Lost in Rome to Verdasco
- Reached the RG F beating Khachanov and Djokovic, then lost to Nadal in 4

So far 2023 Chaz
- Didn’t play the AO
- Won Indian Wells beating Sinner and Meddy B
- Lost in Miami to Sinner
- Won Barcelona beating Tsitsipas en route
- Will probably win Madrid beating Struff again
- ???
- ???

If these lads played across these tournaments, who would win and where?
 
Alcaraz is near big 3 level. Thiem is one time slam champ when pandemic hugely benefited him. His lone masters came in IW on slowest court where fed sadly couldn't hit through him.

0 masters outside that
0 Barcelona
0 ATP finals

Thiem wins nothing and Alcaraz wins both.
 
Was going to say Carlos looked better in his lone slam final but that was just before 2023 but Thiem faced Nadal RG 2019 in form after mauling with Djokovic for 5 sets but in Alcaraz case it's too early to say because the year still has 3 more majors.
 
jl809 said:
Thiem beat Federer and a younger and far better Nadal and Djokovic in this time period tbf
Click to expand...
Those things now to me mean nothing. Thiem is beating wrong guys at wrong place.
Djokovic at RG is not invincible.
Nadal at AO isn't invincible.
No.
 
nachiket nolefam said:
Those things now to me mean nothing. Thiem is beating wrong guys at wrong place.
Djokovic at RG is not invincible.
Nadal at AO isn't invincible.
No.
Click to expand...
Sure, but Djokodal also aren’t invincible in Madrid, which is the only place he’s beaten them so far after he lost to Nadal at IW. We just don’t have the sample data for this year so far unfortunately :(
 
There‘s no real poll option for me. My guess is that Thiem would win about 25% of their matches on both surfaces, as long as they don‘t meet in a final. I think his AO 2020 level was really high as well. And I do think his US open run was pretty great .. if you ignore the final (which is one of the reasons, I mentioned the not-in-a-final-thing before)
Also his ATP finals in 2019 and 2020 were more than solid, beating Djokovic both times, Federer, Nadal and Tsitsipas, while loosing both finals (again..) in close three sets.
 
jl809 said:
Sure, but Djokodal also aren’t invincible in Madrid, which is the only place he’s beaten them so far after he lost to Nadal at IW. We just don’t have the sample data for this year so far unfortunately :(
Click to expand...
I can agree with this. But we know Carlito is the closer. He likes to close out matches. And Thiem almost lost his only slam win but was against Zverev who had second worst choke of 21st century. Without that he won't even have 1 slam. So to put him as some sort of winner in 2023 is intellectually dishonest.
 
Alcaraz takeover said:
I don't think some (want to) realize how good Alcaraz is right now and how he's elevated his game, even from last year.

Some of these comps lately. No disrespect to Thiem obviously but the Spaniard is winning 93% of his matches this year.
Click to expand...
Yes. This is hardly to be argued now. The guy doesn't lose matches anymore. Thiem was Never like this. Even after beating Nadal he never won a single clay masters. I think the case is very strong that not Carlos but Dominic is overrated. As a Novak fan I was very much worried when Thiem was the opposition to Nadal at RG. Thiem offered absolutely no challenge to Rafa at RG.
 
jl809 said:
2019 Thiem
- Lost early with injury at the AO
- Won Indian Wells beating Fed
- lost in Miami to Hubi Doo
- Won Barcelona beating Nadal en route
- Lost in Madrid SFs 7-6 7-6 to Djokovic
- Lost in Rome to Verdasco
- Reached the RG F beating Khachanov and Djokovic, then lost to Nadal in 4

So far 2023 Chaz
- Didn’t play the AO
- Won Indian Wells beating Sinner and Meddy B
- Lost in Miami to Sinner
- Won Barcelona beating Tsitsipas en route
- Will probably win Madrid beating Struff again
- ???
- ???

If these lads played across these tournaments, who would win and where?
Click to expand...
If they'd play before the finals, Alcaraz would win 6 or 7 out of 10 matches.
If they'd play in the finals, Alcaraz would win 10 out of 10 matches.
 
Rafa4LifeEver said:
If they'd play before the finals, Alcaraz would win 6 or 7 out of 10 matches.
If they'd play in the finals, Alcaraz would win 10 out of 10 matches.
Click to expand...
Thank you. All good folks please expose Thiem.

Carlos is not like Thiem, Medvedev, Wawrinka, might offend his fans but even Andy Murray. He is better than them.
 
When are some going to realize that Alcaraz is a different level than the filler gen ?

He still needs physical maturity and improvement in serve to compete at the big 3 level, but people have to realize that the wasteful gen from Nishikori, Raonic all the way to Med, Thiem, Tsitsipas, Zverev are just bad and are 2-3 levels lower than big 3.
 
Kralingen said:
Alcaraz will eventually surpass Thiem I believe but right now his 22-23 level is not at such an unimpeachable place that we can guarantee him wins over Thiem (who hit just as hard and had some great shotmaking of his own)
Click to expand...
If you take away Thiem's choking (I know, big), I really don't think Alcaraz could separate himself. The matches would be very close, and I would back Thiem for majority of them.
 
ND-13 said:
When are some going to realize that Alcaraz is a different level than the filler gen ?

He still needs physical maturity and improvement in serve to compete at the big 3 level, but people have to realize that the wasteful gen from Nishikori, Raonic all the way to Med, Thiem, Tsitsipas, Zverev are just bad and are 2-3 levels lower than big 3.
Click to expand...
Absolutely — there’s an inevitability about his game, much like what we saw from the big three. You know at the end of sets he’s going to break, you know when the points are big he’s going to win them, and you’re pretty sure he’s going to win the matches. You never saw this from generation filler.
 
Thiem could zone in any given match, of course, but over several matches it’s gotta be Alcaraz. The big gap between the two is on the return. Thiem won just 19% of return games on hard in 2019, according to the ATP site. Alcaraz is on 32% so far this year (the same mark he hit last year). That number shot up to 29% for Thiem on clay but so far Alcaraz has been breaking serve over 40% of the time, I believe, on the terre battue. Just a mismatch when they have similar hold games and Alcaraz has more tools to win the point once it’s going – although again if Thiem is in-the-zone enough he could outmaneuver Carlos on a particular day. But that would be a relative rarity, I would guess.
 
Domi probably has the best record of his gen against the Big 3 and has the most memorable wind against them, which means his peak could be pretty high. He was never the dominant player that Alcaraz is currently however, and if Carlos can still spray UEs, Thiem could leak a sh*t ton of them when he wasn't redlining. Anyway that would be a fun match with lots of intensity and Thiem could have his chances, but not in a final as he is a mental midget when playing them.
 
Peak Thiem has the marginal level advantage on aggregate imo, but his chokery would equalise the playing field, particularly in finals. Don't think there'd be a great deal to split them.
 
alcaraz looks like a better player. 18-20 thiem could score some wins with his ball bashing but overall alcaraz would dominate
 
Thiem with a probably equal peak but lower floor and median so Alcaraz is more likely to win than not. Of course, RG is crucial and this year's hasn't happened yet so can't say until it does.
 
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