2019 US Open Women's Final - (8.) SERENA Williams vs. (15.) BIANCA Andreescu

Who wins the women's final?


  • Total voters
    75
  • Poll closed .

Fugazi

Professional
Svitolina is worlds ahead of Andreescu right now... in every possible way. And Williams absolutely crushed Svitolina... and Williams wasn't even playing her best tennis. I'd love for it to be a competitive and dramatic match, but I think this is going to be a rout. Williams in 2.

I know a lot of people hated seeing the top women seeds going out early, but I personally love seeing Svitolina, Andreescu, and Bencic come through the draw. That's awesome for women's tennis. The women's field is so good right now. You literally have no idea what is going to happen in the Top-20 (aside from Williams bulldozing through a draw -- and even that is unpredictable anymore).
Andreescu has a 38-4 record this year (before the US Open). Has never lost to a top 10 player. She has everything: power, precision, consistency, athleticism, agility, intelligence, mental toughness. But sure, Svitolina is worlds ahead of her!
 
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Mr Feeny

Hall of Fame
Well done Andreescu !

Serena jumping over that ball that went long was cringe worthy. Ball was never going to hit her. She just likes being over dramatic.
That was weird. And there was another awkward one on the left sideline where she misjudged the height of a put-away. I've never seen that in tennis before. Some audible laughter from the crowd.
 

Subway Tennis

Hall of Fame
I think you are confusing her fitness trainer Virginie Tremblay, who did assume coaching duties but only in Aukland since her actual coach was unable to make the trip. Edit: but since you wonder, she played tennis as a junior, though maybe not at an international level. She consulted regularly with the actual coach in Aukland.

Sylvain Bruneau is her coach and responsible for turning her from a hard hitter into the player with an intricate game she is now.
It looks like that's exactly what I was doing. Thanks for the heads-up and the correction. :)
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
watching the full match now.
1st game was a bad service game from Serena - 2 DFs including 1 on BP. then game play b/w them was even stevens until the last service game. Bianca puts her under pressure & Serena DFs on SP. Very good play from Bianca in the set, excellent serving and clean play.
1st service of Serena in 2nd set, Bianca puts her under pressure with 3 good points on the return and Serena DFs again on BP.
 

Sparlingo

Professional
I don't see how a U.S. tournament can dictate how a foreign player pays taxes. That is likely decided by the Canadian government.
This income is not taxable in canada because it is not income earned in Canada. The Canadian government does not tax on the basis of "world income", but the USA does. Canada does tax income earned at the Rogers Cup, whether the player is Canadian or not.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Bianca putting pressure on and Serena with some sloppy play makes it 5-1 Bianca.
Serena does great to break Bianca from MP down - nothing much wrong that Bianca did tbh.
Then Serena holds convincingly.
The next game, Bianca serving for the match 2nd time -- signs of serves+Serena playing well leads to another break.
 

Raul_SJ

Legend
This income is not taxable in canada because it is not income earned in Canada. The Canadian government does not tax on the basis of "world income", but the USA does. Canada does tax income earned at the Rogers Cup, whether the player is Canadian or not.
So an American playing in the Rogers Cup pays taxes to Canada on his prize winnings. After that, he has to pay additional taxes to the U.S.
:unsure:

American players who earn money abroad disclose their winnings on their 1040, but the taxation of those earnings depends on tax treaties we have with that country, taxes paid to that country for your Foreign Tax Credit, and tons of other factors.​
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
then both Serena and Bianca hold at 30 each.
Bianca breaks with an excellent return game to seal the match, including a FH return winner off 2nd serve.
 
There is no way anyone can make a prediction about long term consistency of WTA players. Injury, the depth of the WTA. There are no dominant players. She may get to #1 doubtful she stays there for long. To many good players can beat her on any given day.
She has played and won 13 matches in a row, she beat Serena twice in that process.

Hard to tell with those credentials, that she can be beaten by too many good players.

Forget not, her Indian wells victory, where she beat Svitolina in semifinals, and Kerber in the final. Two good players, well she got them.
And even Muguruza, that on a given day can beat almost anyone, got thrashed 6/0 6/1

She is 19 and on the rise.

A few years ago, Bencic beat Serena. Bencic is smart, but it was obvious that she lacks power and stamina.
Well, Andreescu got both, power and stamina.

In the last 3 years, we've seen 3 girls with real power, Serena, Osaka, and Andreescu. Osaka is lost, Serena is fading.

I don't see too many good players that can beat her on ANY GIVEN DAY, as you say.
 

Sparlingo

Professional
So an American playing in the Rogers Cup pays taxes to Canada on his prize winnings. After that, he has to pay additional taxes to the U.S.
:unsure:

American players who earn money abroad disclose their winnings on their 1040, but the taxation of those earnings depends on tax treaties we have with that country, taxes paid to that country for your Foreign Tax Credit, and tons of other factors.​
I should have been more specific, but the my main point stands - which was the basis for USA income tax is world income. Yes, generally the taxes paid in other countries is credited based on tax treaties. Other countries generally only tax income earned in that country and not on world income. Tennis players seek tax havens not because of prize money income tax but to save income tax on money from endorsements and investments etc. American players generally don't relocate to tax havens because they have to pay American income tax based on world income anyway.
 

Goldie

Rookie
Seems many pro athletes move to Monte Carlo. These days, Governments have there hands in our pockets a lot more. Might as well give them all our money, and they will give us what we need. Oh wait that is socialism ( Great until you run out of everyone's else's money. )
 

Midaso240

Hall of Fame
She has played and won 13 matches in a row, she beat Serena twice in that process.

Hard to tell with those credentials, that she can be beaten by too many good players.

Forget not, her Indian wells victory, where she beat Svitolina in semifinals, and Kerber in the final. Two good players, well she got them.
And even Muguruza, that on a given day can beat almost anyone, got thrashed 6/0 6/1

She is 19 and on the rise.

A few years ago, Bencic beat Serena. Bencic is smart, but it was obvious that she lacks power and stamina.
Well, Andreescu got both, power and stamina.

In the last 3 years, we've seen 3 girls with real power, Serena, Osaka, and Andreescu. Osaka is lost, Serena is fading.

I don't see too many good players that can beat her on ANY GIVEN DAY, as you say.
I really like what I've seen,but I have to see how she does on grass and clay before I get too carried away with her as a consistent top player. Few WTA players seem to be able to play really well across all surfaces,Halep perhaps being the most consistent atm...
 
Boy, I sure hope you're not an accountant doing taxes for anyone. Bianca would have to fill out her tax return claiming all her income, less expenses incurred to earn that income, and pay tax on the net amount less a credit for taxes she paid in other countries with which Canada has a tax treaty. It's all very complicated but the formula is basically what I laid out.
I'm definetely not doing taxes for anyone else, don't worry. Looks like there were agreements or something I didn't know of and it was more complicated than what was reported in news article I had read here that had dealt with the subject, so thanks for the correction, but I was mainly trying to insist that it was not the country of residence that was responsible for taxing the prize money.

I'd really only ever heard that prize money made no difference regarding the country of residence. Doesn't look like I was way off on that.
 
Seems many pro athletes move to Monte Carlo. These days, Governments have there hands in our pockets a lot more. Might as well give them all our money, and they will give us what we need. Oh wait that is socialism ( Great until you run out of everyone's else's money. )
Canadian might move to Bahamas like Pospisil, Bouchard and Shapovalov. A lot of tennis player also resides there such as Nick Kyrgios and Edmund.
Also, how the hell Felix Auger is already reside in Monte Carlo? Didn't they have to purchase a property or something? (This is after he made semis in Miami).
 

zvelf

Semi-Pro
As Serena danced around the court being hailed as the greatest women's player of all time, the camera was supposed to pan around the crowd, showing all the Black celebrities gloating like they had some part in her success.

But their hero is now old and fat and shouldn't be wearing skin-tight clothing. A sweaty mess with rolls around her middle.
Someone's got a bizarre fantasy of people he doesn't like to engage in racist schadenfreude.

Long Live Stefi Graf.
Günter Parche, is that you?

No, I actually agree that Graf has greater achievements than Serena, but Serena is still one of the top five women to ever play tennis, so it's not like there's much to mock.
 

a10best

Hall of Fame
Exactly. Canada provided her and her family with citizenship and opportunities, and funded her junior tennis career. But why bother giving back now that she is able to earn a lot of money. Life is about taking all that you can, and giving as little as possible.
Well it happens and they're certainly free to do that. She can pay Canada back for their funding. No rule on paying them back in perpetuity. So many Euro players have domiciled in Monaco and American players take up residence in Florida or Texas.
 

Beacon Hill

Hall of Fame
I should have been more specific, but the my main point stands - which was the basis for USA income tax is world income. Yes, generally the taxes paid in other countries is credited based on tax treaties. Other countries generally only tax income earned in that country and not on world income. Tennis players seek tax havens not because of prize money income tax but to save income tax on money from endorsements and investments etc. American players generally don't relocate to tax havens because they have to pay American income tax based on world income anyway.
I believe your main point is incorrect. Most countries consider all the income you made anywhere in the world. It all must be declared. Then taxes owing may be adjusted if you paid taxes to another jurisdiction, and there is a reciprocal tax treaty with that country. What is different about the United States compared to almost all other countries is that citizens are responsible for filing and paying US taxes not based on whether they reside in the US, but whether they are US citizens, or even considered citizens for tax purposes.
 

Beacon Hill

Hall of Fame
Well it happens and they're certainly free to do that. She can pay Canada back for their funding. No rule on paying them back in perpetuity. So many Euro players have domiciled in Monaco and American players take up residence in Florida or Texas.
Yes, she should calculate exactly how much funding she received, and pay back only that amount. And if she didn't make it as a professional, like 99.9% of the other juniors in Tennis Canada programs, of course she would not pay anything back. Take advantage of social programs when you need them, but don't feel any responsibility to fund them when you can afford to, and after you've benefited from them - it only makes sense. She doesn't need Tennis Canada anymore, so why should she help them out? She might not even need Canadian citizenship anymore, so move away. If later on if she sees some advantage in being Canadian again, and after she wouldn't have to pay higher taxes, then she could come back.
 

a10best

Hall of Fame
Yes, she should calculate exactly how much funding she received, and pay back only that amount. And if she didn't make it as a professional, like 99.9% of the other juniors in Tennis Canada programs, of course she would not pay anything back. Take advantage of social programs when you need them, but don't feel any responsibility to fund them when you can afford to, and after you've benefited from them - it only makes sense. She doesn't need Tennis Canada anymore, so why should she help them out? She might not even need Canadian citizenship anymore, so move away. If later on if she sees some advantage in being Canadian again, and after she wouldn't have to pay higher taxes, then she could come back.
Well, no. She should pay them back with a bonus or what she feels is fair & appreciative. I don't think she'll give up Canadian citizenship though. So, she may never escape those taxes.
You can't get upset at people relocating for tax reasons. There's hundreds of thousands of ex-NewYorkers, Californians, and people in other high tax states/countries doing just that. I like these states but the savings & potential investments really add up with a relocation. Quality of life is what's important though.
 

coupergear

Professional
Have you watched Serena play the last few years? She is often terribly off balance.
totally agree here. this is my biggest observation. I have not been a Serena fan over the years nor do I watch much womens tennis but she literally seems to be stumbling around all over the court. She's not in balance and terrible preparation. No chop steps, not on balls of feet, just flat footed. Age and weight are catching up to her. she has superior upper body strength and stroke muscle memory to still pull off amazing shots even off balance. against most of the tour she can still dominate but against the top players who are hitting big she is exposed. To me that strange double clutch on the sitter was an example-- just coming into the ball with bad preparation and trying to do it with all upper body... misjudging.
 
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coupergear

Professional
People may say it's a bad service day for Serena. but the opponent plays a big role. if you're up against someone that you feel like is going to be able to beat you on the baseline that you can't go toe-to-toe in Rallies you are going to try to do more with your first serve and your percentage is going to drop. I feel like Serena was struggling on her serve due to the opponent. It was clear she was not able to hang in rallies and was trying to shorten points thus try to do more with the first serve. I would say her earlier loss to the same opponent set her up for taking more risks on serve.
 

Toyo

Rookie
We can't be sure how Bianca will react. This is her first major finals. This is not Indian Wells finals.
Yes, Serena has the pressure of #24 but she has been in the finals 33 times. Ridiculous... The kid is the one most likely to feel the pressure.
Bianca says Serena is her idol. How can she not be intimidated by going up against her childhood idol?
Serena is the last opponent Bianca wants to be playing.
I think we all know now that Bianca plays like a veteran and feels no pressure that she can't overcome and isn't intimidated by anyone. A future Superstar perhaps?
 

celito

Rookie
I agree with congrats to Bianca.
I think that you are predisposed to dislike anything Serena does. If anyone else jumped over that ball, I'm guessing you wouldn't have noticed/cared. It wasn't significant. Let it go.
Yes to the first statement. I don't like her. How could anyone ?
No to the second. I would have noticed any player doing that.
 

Beacon Hill

Hall of Fame
Well, no. She should pay them back with a bonus or what she feels is fair & appreciative. I don't think she'll give up Canadian citizenship though. So, she may never escape those taxes.
You can't get upset at people relocating for tax reasons. There's hundreds of thousands of ex-NewYorkers, Californians, and people in other high tax states/countries doing just that. I like these states but the savings & potential investments really add up with a relocation. Quality of life is what's important though.
I don't get upset - it's not worth it. Bianca got a lot from Canada that allowed her to get where she is. So if she accepts a system that funds her to become exceedingly rich, i don't think it's too much to ask to also accept the other side of it - Canada's tax structure that provides money for programs such as the one from which she benefited. So she makes 6 million this year instead of 8. It's not so bad.
 
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a10best

Hall of Fame
I don't get upset - it's not worth it. Bianca got a lot from Canada that allowed her to get where she is. So if she accepts a system that funds her to become exceedingly rich, i don't think it's too much to ask to also accept the other side of it - Canada's tax structure that provides money for programs such as the one from which she benefited. So she makes 6 million this year instead of 8. It's not so bad.
I agree with you if her giveback + bonus due to her success truly helps other social programs and is not wasted on unproven or low probable success initiatives.
 

ALEXT

Semi-Pro
I don't get upset - it's not worth it. Bianca got a lot from Canada that allowed her to get where she is. So if she accepts a system that funds her to become exceedingly rich, i don't think it's too much to ask to also accept the other side of it - Canada's tax structure that provides money for programs such as the one from which she benefited. So she makes 6 million this year instead of 8. It's not so bad.
Based on info I gathered from someone I know who had two boys playing at high national level few year ago (they came up with Shapovalov), when the young athletes enter Tennis Canada High Performance Program(s) they are contractually bound to pay certain percentage from their future professional earnings back to Tennis Canada.
This is separate from the federal/provincial income tax everyone pays. Canada has treaties with many countries to avoid double taxation as well. The income earned in a foreign country is mainly taxed in the country of origin.
 

Beacon Hill

Hall of Fame
I agree with you if her giveback + bonus due to her success truly helps other social programs and is not wasted on unproven or low probable success initiatives.
As Canada has a somewhat democratic structure, at least citizens can vote to influence what tax revenue is used for. Anyway, back to well done Bianca for beating Serena, and hope she can win a few more.
 

RayPS97

New User
Who was the scrawny screaming brunette the camera kept panning to who kept throwing her arms up in the air like Jesus just descended on the court?



Serena played better in the second set: In the first photo(1-2), she breaks back to give the fans some joy.

In the second, she holds to win a third game after a long dry spell after just breaking the Andreescu in the game before(3-5). The fans want more and let her know

In the third photo, she breaks again (4-5)...it seems to be working and the fans get even louder. Not sure if this where Bianca plugged her ears...if not...it was the next game where Serena held. Most 19 year olds would be a quivering pile of jelly in that enviroment (crowd knows it) but Andreescu holds for 5-6 and the breaks , again, for 5-7 and the Championship. Damn impressive !!!

I think Serena just met someone that competed better on Saturday...nuff said :censored:


If it had gone to a third set, it was anyone's match. Might have to give the edge to Serena, especially with that hostile crowd loudly against Bianca.
Would have dwarfed the 40-15 Wimbledon choke.
5-1 :(
But would you be losing your f-ing mind at every Serena point if you were in the crowd?
The crowd is so fcking annoying, I hate it when people cheer on double-faults and unforced errors.
What is this? I thought the old Soviet Union went out of business. Apparently contrary opinions to yours are not to be allowed.
I said the crowd was on Serena's side (clearly a self evident claim if you watched the match) and after going O for four in her last four finals
getting another slam title now amounts to a growing mental hurdle.
This is not "denigrating" Serena. There are called common sense observations. Sorry your knickers got twisted up. You also could relax and breathe some more.
 
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Serena played better in the second set: In the first photo(1-2), she breaks back to give the fans some joy.

In the second, she holds to win a third game after a long dry spell after just breaking the Andreescu in the game before(3-5). The fans want more and let her know

In the third photo, she breaks again (4-5)...it seems to be working and the fans get even louder. Not sure if this where Bianca plugged her ears...if not...it was the next game where Serena held. Most 19 year olds would be a quivering pile of jelly in that enviroment (crowd knows it) but Andreescu holds for 5-6 and the breaks , again, for 5-7 and the Championship. Damn impressive !!!

I think Serena just met someone that competed better on Saturday...nuff said :censored:
Yes. Great work tracking down those images. Impressive.
I remember all three people though I was referring mostly to number two.
They were all greatly invested in their tennis God, Serena, it looks like but sometimes God does not answer your prayers.
The man I thought might have been in the Williams player's box but I could be wrong.
 

RayPS97

New User
Yes. Great work tracking down those images. Impressive.
I remember all three people though I was referring mostly to number two.
They were all greatly invested in their tennis God, Serena, it looks like but sometimes God does not answer your prayers.
The man I thought might have been in the Williams player's box but I could be wrong.
The first pic and second are actually of the same person...tough to see from a cursory look at them. She was fist pumping and rolling her wrist like the second coming of Arsenio Hall( A animated GIF be cool...will see).

The umpire did a good job of limiting the crowd from applauding errant Andreescu first serves with a simple "Please". While the Standing ovations mounted with each point/game in Serena's favor....the "crunch time" verve that Andreescu has brought out under pressure surfaced again to take game eleven and a 6-5 lead and eventually another break for the championship.

What I most admired about tennis is the unspoken code that past greats like Laver, Lendl and Connors operated before a match and after a match. Laver was quoted that if he made it the court side seats he was "read to play" with all the physical and mental connotations of that phrase. When Lendl lost to Michael Chang (FO final) and Connors to Ashe(Wimb. Final), they acknowledge they lost to a better player on the day. Serena could learn from them and hold her head up high.
 
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Ruark

Semi-Pro
In the final, Serena said it was the worst she played in the entire tournament. But suppose she had been "on her game" and in top Serena form. Would Bianca still have won? Opinions?
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
I think @Meles predicted the men's final participants as well.

A few weeks before USO he had a long post about Nadal and Moya retooling for more success on grass and hardcourt, and that Nadal may start winning more on those surfaces.

He also posted about US Open conditions suiting Nadal after reading info about the surface underlay.

He was quite bullish about Medvedev's chances weeks out from the start of the tournament.
Also on the Andreescu bandwagon early at US Open once I looked into her record, but did not post anywhere on it.:oops:
 
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