Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
Yes and no. Serena didn't play badly in the semi, so the ease with which Osaka beat her was startling. She did look destined for great things when she broke through. Just lost her way a bit in 2019 but she's back on track.
2021 AO Women's Final: [22] Jennifer Brady (USA) vs. [3] Naomi Osaka (JPN)
- Thread starter James P
- Start date
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G.O.A.T.
Wander
Hall of Fame
Honestly, I don't think they were that unlucky. Serena frankly squandered a lot of chances during her prime for various reasons, had several injuries and missed a total of 10 Slams completely between winning her first and last Major title. It's nothing compared to the men's game where Majors have been almost completely dominated by the big 3 for over 15 years. Serena just didn't have rivals at that level for a long time after Venus declined and Henin retired.
roysid
Legend
Lot of gray area there. Does not recognize
not necessarily means leave the citizenship. Ive seen conflicting news reports. Who knows whats the ground reality other than that Osaka stays in US, plays for Japan.
roysid
Legend
Yes. Shes a beast on hard courts. Only need to keep her focus and form.
But she needs to extend her domination to grass and clay. Cant ignore 2 of the 4 slams
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
Brady had no chance, and for those who actually thought Barty was going to even make the final...okay.
In any case, Naomi Osaka wins the 2021 Australian Open, adding a fourth major to her ever-growing list, and all but cementing her position as the dominant player of this era of player.
Updated list of majors winners (not named Serena) since 2010:
Schiavone: FO - 2010
Clijsters: USO 2010 & AO 2011
Li Na: FO 2011 & AO 2014
Kvitova: Wimbledon 2011 & 2014
Stosur: USO 2011
Sharapova: FO 2012 & FO 2014
Azarenka: AO 2012 & 2013
Bartoli: Wimbledon 2013
Pennetta: USO 2015
Kerber: AO 2016, USO 2016 & Wimbledon 2018
Muguruza: FO 2016 & Wimbledon 2017
Ostapenko: FO 2017
Stephens: USO 2017
Wozniacki: AO 2018
Halep: FO 2018
Osaka: USO 2018, 2020 & AO 2019 and 2021
Barty: FO 2019
Halep: FO 2018 & Wimbledon 2019
Andreescu: 2019 USO
Kenin: AO 2020
The beautiful thing abut Osaka's ascendancy is that she has broken out of the idiotic "demure Japanese girl" stereotype some "fans" pinned to her, so she embraced her own identity--particularly with her wise support of the Black Lives Matter movement. She is right in so many ways--exactly what tennis needs, and with her intelligent game (inspired by her idol, Serena Williams), there's no telling how far she can go, but it is wonderful to see.
In any case, Naomi Osaka wins the 2021 Australian Open, adding a fourth major to her ever-growing list, and all but cementing her position as the dominant player of this era of player.
Updated list of majors winners (not named Serena) since 2010:
Schiavone: FO - 2010
Clijsters: USO 2010 & AO 2011
Li Na: FO 2011 & AO 2014
Kvitova: Wimbledon 2011 & 2014
Stosur: USO 2011
Sharapova: FO 2012 & FO 2014
Azarenka: AO 2012 & 2013
Bartoli: Wimbledon 2013
Pennetta: USO 2015
Kerber: AO 2016, USO 2016 & Wimbledon 2018
Muguruza: FO 2016 & Wimbledon 2017
Ostapenko: FO 2017
Stephens: USO 2017
Wozniacki: AO 2018
Halep: FO 2018
Osaka: USO 2018, 2020 & AO 2019 and 2021
Barty: FO 2019
Halep: FO 2018 & Wimbledon 2019
Andreescu: 2019 USO
Kenin: AO 2020
The beautiful thing abut Osaka's ascendancy is that she has broken out of the idiotic "demure Japanese girl" stereotype some "fans" pinned to her, so she embraced her own identity--particularly with her wise support of the Black Lives Matter movement. She is right in so many ways--exactly what tennis needs, and with her intelligent game (inspired by her idol, Serena Williams), there's no telling how far she can go, but it is wonderful to see.
Wander
Hall of Fame
Frankly Barty should've made the final or at least the semi-final. The way her game suddenly collapsed in the quarters after dominating the first set was a bit inexplicable.
In fact, if Barty had made the final (but losing there) as expected, I'd be fine with her still staying at #1, but with this result, it looks a bit bad to have her at #1 and Osaka at only #2 despite winning two of the last three Majors. Meanwhile, Barty's Roland Garros triumph was almost two years ago, but she still holds on to those ranking points for the time being.
GhostOfNKDM
Hall of Fame
Serena's movement got exposed by Osaka, who can match the former in weight-of-shot.
Most of the rest get bullied by Serena's power as she's the one moving them around.
And just to be clear, this isn't a sly dig about Serena's weight... I just think she takes big steps well but isn't used to having to shuffle her feet well enough in anticipatory defense if that makes sense - she's used to standing her ground and dictating play.
Crazy Finn
Hall of Fame
Exactly. Players can get caught flat footed to varying degrees if balls come back to them faster than they're used to or ready for. Serena did this to others for decades, she's not as used to anyone doing it to her.
It might be a little bit of age and not being as quick on her feet as she was a decade ago, but I think much more of it has to do with her opponent's pace. Sabalenka can do this too, to a degree, when she can find the inside of the lines - and frankly, Brady as well at times.
GhostOfNKDM
Hall of Fame
I just posted a thread about this on GPPD - it seems like player groundies, especially the backhand - have become monster strokes. A lot of players today can produce depth, power of shot and direction 'standing where they are' (sorry couldn't think of a better way to phrase it)
It's just amazing to watch for someone who grew up watching tennis in the 80s and 90s
Definitely a tournament of two halves, draw-wise. The top half was a mess / pretty weak, while the bottom half was absolutely stacked / amazing. During the earlier rounds, on one night I was completely spoilt for choice regarding exciting / intriguing women's matches to watch, and on the next my interest was far more lukewarm.
Another extreme example of this on the women's side was the 2007 US Open, when the top half was amazing and the bottom half was very weak.
Another extreme example of this on the women's side was the 2007 US Open, when the top half was amazing and the bottom half was very weak.
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Pmasterfunk
Hall of Fame
Indeed
UUUH
Japan isn't particularly open and accepting of minorities. They do like success stories, so as long as she keeps winning, they'll love her, but if she has a slump her public perception would probably be very negatively affected.
I'm happy she won, I find her quite likable. She already has quite the resume, and the WTA has some fun up and coming stars. I'll probably pay more attention to the women's tour in the upcoming years.
GhostOfNKDM
Hall of Fame
That's why I said hopefully. I'm not making it out like it's perfect everywhere else, but I'm sure other countries have their own issues.
Being loved when successful and hated when losing is fairly common to many places though.
ACE of Hearts
Bionic Poster
Didn’t think much of the match. Both players didn’t play that well.
FakeEmpire
Professional
Guide to navigate woman's matches threads in TTW:
- If a match is straightforward, 3 setters vs 5 setters, equal pay.
- If a match takes too long, why do ladies play before men.
- If Osaka wins, USA vs Japan.
- If Serena wins, absolute sh**show.
- If Serena loses, absolute sh**show.
This is the basic. There are other nuances regarding other players and situations, but these are the crucial points. I may engage a bit too much on the theme "god, please no, so many breaks", but there's a truth to it we can't deny.
As I won't be able to watch the men's final tomorrow, I'll just say now how I appreciated watching actual people seeing the matches live and not electronic billboards with people cheering at home. I'm a bit anti-social, but even I am sick of putting a mask, running from people, washing hands 283635 times, avoiding touching doorknobs like the plague and not touching my eyes even if they're burning like hell and I'm crying like a baby just to go buy a simple loaf of bread. It's just so tiresome. It was nice to see.
- If a match is straightforward, 3 setters vs 5 setters, equal pay.
- If a match takes too long, why do ladies play before men.
- If Osaka wins, USA vs Japan.
- If Serena wins, absolute sh**show.
- If Serena loses, absolute sh**show.
This is the basic. There are other nuances regarding other players and situations, but these are the crucial points. I may engage a bit too much on the theme "god, please no, so many breaks", but there's a truth to it we can't deny.
As I won't be able to watch the men's final tomorrow, I'll just say now how I appreciated watching actual people seeing the matches live and not electronic billboards with people cheering at home. I'm a bit anti-social, but even I am sick of putting a mask, running from people, washing hands 283635 times, avoiding touching doorknobs like the plague and not touching my eyes even if they're burning like hell and I'm crying like a baby just to go buy a simple loaf of bread. It's just so tiresome. It was nice to see.
bigjimbofan
Semi-Pro
It looks like the SJW mute is another level above any other woman in the game on hard courts.
Pmasterfunk
Hall of Fame
I think US/Japan comparison can be somewhat analogous to an Osaka/Serena comparison.
Whether Serena wins or not there are people who will strongly and loudly hate her in the US. If Serena starts losing, Chris Evert will probably keep stanning, but most people are probably just going to lose interest and be indifferent.
Whereas in Japan, as long as she keeps winning she will almost exclusively get praised, but if she starts losing then the vitriol is going to appear and might get even crazier than it can be in the US.
Harry_Wild
G.O.A.T.
Osaka #4 GS and counting.....!
GhostOfNKDM
Hall of Fame
I don't know much about Japanese sports culture, so I'll take your word for it.
Unfortunately that's a burden public figures from a minority community have to face - be perfect to be merely accepted, but one slip and all the hatred under the surface comes out.
I grew up elsewhere but would play for the States. Everyone’s different! Personally I see no reason to resent Naomi for her choice. Japan is lucky to have her.
Gumbo Jackson
Rookie
Congrats to Osaka! She made this routine and is clearly the best player in women's tennis.
Will be interesting to see if she can have more success on non-hardcourts.
Will be interesting to see if she can have more success on non-hardcourts.
ACE of Hearts
Bionic Poster
It was straight sets but she didn’t play all that well. She said she was nervous after the match.
Harry_Wild
G.O.A.T.
Osaka will move to #2 ranking after the 2021 AO win! Breads #13 from #24.
a10best
Legend
Very true. Countries love a winner and just punish a former champ who becomes a fall from grace loser.
Chris Evert's and her Serena lovefest commentary is a joke. We know she is a 24-time slam winner but her best years are almost 10 years ago.It's better to be objective and not biased. She commented like Naomi never beat her and would get nervous. They've had 4 meetings and Serena has not come close to winning a set off her.
Wander
Hall of Fame
Well yes, Brady didn't force her to play particularly well. The real championship deciding match was Muguruza - Osaka all the way back in the 3rd round when she had to play her best to fight off match points. Sometimes these finals happen.
ihitlikeagirl
Semi-Pro
totally agreed. To me, Serena's serve is perfect or near perfect. But when it comes to the rest of her movement and technique, she's often off balance and poor footwork, and pulls up often, which is even more exposed as she is getting older and when she was really out of shape the last couple of years. If she didn't have the serve, I don't think we would be talking about her nor would she have the record she does have.
Osaka is fun to watch! She makes what she does look really easy While I could agree with Bof5 for some reasons, that would have been torturous in the 2021 AO final!!! Too lopsided of a match. Lol, it probably would have been over in 3 obviously but it was torturous to watch it in 2. I've liked Jen(ny) Brady in other matches but this one wasn't good at all. Improved fitness is great to see and hopefully she will keep gaining confidence (and a better backhand!). Wasn't it odd when Osaka asked for her preferred first name usage and then used the opposite name (Jennifer) that Brady said she prefers???? How awkward! I can't tell if Osaka was trying to be funny, misheard or got nervous but it was weird. Also kind of weird that she didn't truly know--I feel like she would have had to know being immersed in the same tennis scene (and in FL) for much of their tennis life. Tennis world is relatively small.
Argument for Bof5 in Women's Slams: Would love to see true fitness levels tested like they are in the men's; think that there would be different variables factoring into who wins things and what is valued
Argument against Bof5 in Women's Slams: Lots of people already complain that women's is boring (not me but lots of people do); inherent general preference for liking men's tennis so doesn't really work for scheduling and keeping audience engaged with the sport (which has issues already); the same people who argue that women should have to do the same as men for same prize money will be annoyed if women's matches were 5 sets and go on forever (the can't win argument).
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
No, as the list of majors winners since 2010 not named Serena--
Schiavone: FO - 2010
Clijsters: USO 2010 & AO 2011
Li Na: FO 2011 & AO 2014
Kvitova: Wimbledon 2011 & 2014
Stosur: USO 2011
Sharapova: FO 2012 & FO 2014
Azarenka: AO 2012 & 2013
Bartoli: Wimbledon 2013
Pennetta: USO 2015
Kerber: AO 2016, USO 2016 & Wimbledon 2018
Muguruza: FO 2016 & Wimbledon 2017
Ostapenko: FO 2017
Stephens: USO 2017
Wozniacki: AO 2018
Halep: FO 2018 & Wimbledon 2019
Osaka: USO 2018, 2020 & AO 2019 and 2021
Barty: FO 2019
Andreescu: 2019 USO
Kenin: AO 2020
--proves, the WTA has more talent fighting for and winning majors (nine players with more than a lone majors title), so that is a clear indicator of Serena having serious competition that just did not roll over as is the case on the men's side over the past two generations.
A match does not have go on and on and on. Few long matches on the men's side were/are worth watching (IOW, most are not McEnroe v Borg: 1980), because the majority is usually a case of two men not knowing how to get the job done, which is a serious commentary on the state of men's tennis, especially of the past 17+ years.
clout
Hall of Fame
I don't think there is the 6-slam marker on the WTA side. Players like Hingis, Sharapova, Davenport, and Clijsters don't have 6 majors but their career numbers scream ATG to meIn the number of grandslams won, Naomi overcame Lindsey Davenport or Angelique Kerber and equal Arantxa Sanchez Vicario, Kim Clijsters or Hana Mandlikova.
Two more grandslams and she will be an ATG player.
clout
Hall of Fame
Agreed. Who f****** cares what her nationality/background is, she's a great tennis player and seems like a nice person irl that's all that matters really
clout
Hall of Fame
Depends. I feel like a lot of the players now either emulated Serena's game or have come up with a style of play to counter her game. Osaka beat down Serena in the semis the same way Serena used to do to players like Sharapova and Azarenka.
clout
Hall of Fame
Even in Canada this is sort of a problem. When Genie was taking everyone by storm in 2014, we all loved her like she was our relative, but in the years since, some Canadian outlets have referred to her as the Quebecois/French-Canadian girl who can't stay off her phone/social media. Same with Ben Johnson in 1988 although that was before my time
ACE of Hearts
Bionic Poster
Serena is much older but she’s still pretty much out of shape.
Beacon Hill
Hall of Fame
She is not Quebecois. She orchestrated her own fall from being highly regarded by the Canadian public. If she puts in effort and stops being a spoiled brat, she can win back that former support.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Partly yes, with the USO incident and all the fall out perhaps, but Canada does have that problem to an extent even if you don't include Genie at all IMO. It's very "what have you done for me lately" especially in sports like tennis which is not very popular here, and only marginally more popular than it used to be since the rise of Raonic, FAA, Shapo, and Andreescu to name the main driving forces.
Essentially I think sports figures are looked at with an air of irrelevance or dislike when they don't do what they're supposed to do, and do it quickly enough for most peoples liking, and that includes the players that work hard, not just the ones that don't. Not saying it's right, I don't think it is and I dislike people that are impatient that way, but it's definitely a prevalent mindset in Canada IMO.
Beacon Hill
Hall of Fame
I wasn't thinking about the US Open incident, but the incidents where she disrespected her opponents. Interesting thoughts about the Canadian public. Do you have some examples? I can't imagine the public turning against Bianca, or even Felix. They still love Leonard after he left the Raptors.
PDJ
G.O.A.T.
Mandlikova, & Sanchez-Vicario did make the finals of all 4 majors. As of now, I'd suggest they achieved more.In the number of grandslams won, Naomi overcame Lindsey Davenport or Angelique Kerber and equal Arantxa Sanchez Vicario, Kim Clijsters or Hana Mandlikova.
Two more grandslams and she will be an ATG player.
Tshooter
G.O.A.T.
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