2021 Next Gen ATP Finals

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V

Vamos Rafa Nadal

Guest
The tournament is next week. Here are the current 8 qualifiers and the two current alternates (subject to change):

1. Jannik Sinner (Italy) (9)
2. Carlos Alcaraz (Spain) (35)
3. Sebastian Korda (USA) (39)
4. Jenson Brooksby (USA) (56)
5. Lorenzo Musetti (Italy) (67)
6. Brandon Nakashima (USA) (65)
7. Juan Manuel Cerundolo (Argentina) (85)
8. Sebastian Baez (Argentina) (111)

9. Holger Rune (Denmark) (118)
10. Hugo Gaston (France) (103)

Not sure why FAA has withdrawn? Sinner might get into the ATP Finals and I assume would withdraw from this one if that happens? Looking forward to this tournament!
 

James P

G.O.A.T.
The 8th pick is not derived from the NextGen Race, but rather a wild card. I don't think it's been announced, but I'm guessing it'll be Giulio Zeppieri or Flavio Cobolli.

Also, there's about a 99.9% chance neither FAA or Sinner play.
 

Swingmaster

Hall of Fame
I could see Korda not playing. No dire need for the cash money, plus they've been obsessed with trusting "the process." Does the process include Next Gen?
 

Swingmaster

Hall of Fame
The 8th pick is not derived from the NextGen Race, but rather a wild card. I don't think it's been announced, but I'm guessing it'll be Giulio Zeppieri or Flavio Cobolli.

Also, there's about a 99.9% chance neither FAA or Sinner play.
Shouldn't be an Italian. They've got two already. Better give it to Rune to generate a little interest up there in the North.
 
V

Vamos Rafa Nadal

Guest
Does anyone know why Felix has withdrawn?

Aren't Ruud and Hurkacz more likely to make it in to the ATP finals - meaning that Sinner would be in this one - or is my math wrong?
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Does anyone know why Felix has withdrawn?

Aren't Ruud and Hurkacz more likely to make it in to the ATP finals - meaning that Sinner would be in this one - or is my math wrong?
Because the Next Gen ATP finals is stupid and those who have actually performed well on tour know that. Guys like Sinner, Alcaraz and FAA are better than that.
 

James P

G.O.A.T.
Yeah, it's big money. To that point in his career, Sinner earned about the same from that one tournament than he did in his entire career (back in 2019).
 
V

Vamos Rafa Nadal

Guest
I actually like it - it's a showcase for the next generation of players. I want Alcaraz to win it, of course!
 
Does anyone know why Felix has withdrawn?

Aren't Ruud and Hurkacz more likely to make it in to the ATP finals - meaning that Sinner would be in this one - or is my math wrong?
Sinner is currently in 8th ahead of Hurk in the race to Turin. No math needed,
you can just ask Google ;)

Needless to say, the real race will likely come down to next week's Stockholm tournament, which may well end up having the strongest field of any ATP 250 ever, as all those still in contention will basically be forced to show up (and it still could be ALL OF THEM: Ruud, Sinner, Hurk, Norrie, and even FAA)

Therefore, neither Sinner nor Aliassime will play in Milan, even should they be officially eliminated after this week. Sinner hasn't officially withdrawn mostly for contractual/marketing reasons, but I guarantee you there is absolutely ZERO chance of him going to the nextgens. Brooksby however has now also officially pulled out, meaning we'll most likely have Baez and Rune in the final 2 spots (barring further withdrawals).

No wild card this year as Italy already has a player in the field (Musetti).
 

James P

G.O.A.T.
Shouldn't be an Italian. They've got two already. Better give it to Rune to generate a little interest up there in the North.
1. There's only going to be one Italian (pre wild card), Lorenzo Musetti
2. Rune will make top 7 if Sinner and FAA expectedly drop out.
 
Sinner has already won the tournament, there does not seem any real benefit in him playing it again. If he wins it, he doesn't gain anything from it; if he doesn't, he just looks silly. And that's without the added complications of the race to Turin.

Either the ATP have stopped caring about the NextGen finals themselves, or putting on Stockholm in the same week was a big mistake. Surely anyone who can get entry to Stockholm would rather play there and get actual ranking points.
 

Larry Duff

G.O.A.T.
The 8th pick is not derived from the NextGen Race, but rather a wild card. I don't think it's been announced, but I'm guessing it'll be Giulio Zeppieri or Flavio Cobolli.

Also, there's about a 99.9% chance neither FAA or Sinner play.
Should be MurrayGOAT
 

Swingmaster

Hall of Fame
Sinner has already won the tournament, there does not seem any real benefit in him playing it again. If he wins it, he doesn't gain anything from it; if he doesn't, he just looks silly. And that's without the added complications of the race to Turin.

Either the ATP have stopped caring about the NextGen finals themselves, or putting on Stockholm in the same week was a big mistake. Surely anyone who can get entry to Stockholm would rather play there and get actual ranking points.
But a million bucks!
 
V

Vamos Rafa Nadal

Guest
Because he’s the 11th ranked player in the world and wants to eat at the adults table ?
Why are so many of you so snarky all the time? It's really disheartening. I get really tired of it.
 
V

Vamos Rafa Nadal

Guest
I have never seen Cerundolo play in a match. I have seen all of the other players at least once or twice... I am looking forward to this tournament, which starts next Tuesday. Looks like the Stockholm Open and the women's WTA finals are at the same time?
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
I have never seen Cerundolo play in a match. I have seen all of the other players at least once or twice... I am looking forward to this tournament, which starts next Tuesday. Looks like the Stockholm Open and the women's WTA finals are at the same time?

As far as Milan, if enough of the top players are in the draw, we could see some good matches.

Cerundolo is fun to watch on clay. I don't know if we'll get to see too much of him on the indoor courts, but you never know.
 
V

Vamos Rafa Nadal

Guest
Sinner and Brooksby have withdrawn (FAA had already withdrawn earlier). Sinner will be playing in Stockholm, which I find surprising. So the new top 8 are:

1. Carlos Alcaraz
2. Sebastian Korda
3. Lorenzo Musetti
4. Brandon Nakashima
5. Cerundolo
6. Sebastian Baez
7. Holger Rune
8. Hugo Gaston

Glad Carlos won't have to play Sinner again this year but Gaston is in this tournament. Here's hoping they are in different groups! Hoping Carlos wins this but who knows? Round robins are tricky.
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
Sinner and Brooksby have withdrawn (FAA had already withdrawn. Sinner will be playing in Stockholm, which I find surprising.

It's actually not that surprising that a player of Sinner or FAA's level would drop out. The Next Gen tournament is basically an exhibition. The tournament does not provide any points towards competitors' ATP Rankings. If you win, the ATP does not recognize it as an official ATP Tour tournament triumph, although matches do count towards the season's official win-loss record.

For example, if you look at Sinners ATP bio, it says he has won 5 ATP titles... not 6. That's because the ATP doesn't recognize his Next Gen win in 2019 as a title.

The Next Gen Finals also uses funky experimental things, like best of 5 Fast Four scoring with no ad. They were also the first tournament to do completely electronic line calls with no judges. I'm not sure what new things they are trying this year.

The primary reasons to play the Next Gen Finals are for money and notoriety/exposure. In 2019, Jannik was an relatively unknown player that had spent most of 2019 ranked outside of the top 200, only having won a handful of ATP Tour level matches, but was on the rise with a recent Antwerp semifinal that year. Going into the tournament, he actually wasn't ranked high enough to be in the top 8 of the Next Gen standings, but got the Italian wild card entry. However, as we all know, he thumped the field and destroyed poor De Minaur in the championship match. He took home over $400,000 in prize money, which was massive for him at the time, and was suddenly on the radar of everyone that was looking to see who the next ATP star might be. Sinner was then able to parlay the newfound fame into more endorsement deals and wildcards into additional ATP events, which helped him in his ascention to where he is now.

For many of the guys in the current Next Gen draw, especially the two from Argentina, this is an opportunity to gain some much needed cash and possibly break out with some big wins. I've seen everybody but Cerundolo and Baez play, so it's a chance for those guys to get some exposure and see if they can beat a more famous player like Alcaraz or Korda. It's too bad that Brooksby got injured because if he was in, 3 US players would have been in the draw, and we all know that the US is desperate for a champion, or at least a consistant top 10 player. An win by an American could help that player gain some traction in the media, I suppose.

For Sinner and FAA, already ranked #9 and #11 in the ATP rankings, the points in Stockholm are more important for them heading into 2022. Sinner has a chance to end the year with his 5th ATP title, and FAA with his first (which is crazy to think about how successful he's been without winning a title yet).
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
By the way, here is the prize money for the Next Gen tournament this year:

RoundPrize Money
Undefeated champion$400,000 (€362,000)
Final win$142,000 (€126,000)
Semi-Final match win$109,000 (€99,000)
Round-Robin match win$23,000 (€21,000)
Participation Fee$80,000 (€72,000)
Alternate$12,000 (€11,000)

Overall, prize money is down compared to 2019. They have bumped up the participation fee, but lowered the amount that you can win overall. For example, if you lose in the semifinal or final, you don't get any extra money from what you already accumulated. An undefeated champion this year would get $400k compared to $429k in 2019.
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
It's too bad that Jenson had to drop out. Now we won't get Brooksby v. Gaston. I predict there would have been a lot of dropshots in that one.
 

mpournaras

Hall of Fame
Is the prize still a million? If Sinner and FAA don't play, a guy like Alcaraz would be happy to grab the million. The title itself isn't worth much.
No. It is total of 1.4 millio. Still good money but FAA and Sinner especially want to eat at the adults table and the Next Gen ATP finals is not the tournament to do that at. Sinner has a lot of pride and is beyond the participation trophy equivalent of the ATP Finals.



Alternate$12,000
Participation Fee$80,000
Round-robin match win$23,000
Semi-final match win$109,000
Final win$142,000
Undefeated champion$400,000
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The term "next gen" has exploded around here due to this marketing idea so it's hardly stupid. The final is not for players who have advanced rapidly, that's all.

Because the Next Gen ATP finals is stupid and those who have actually performed well on tour know that. Guys like Sinner, Alcaraz and FAA are better than that.
 

Swingmaster

Hall of Fame
No. It is total of 1.4 millio. Still good money but FAA and Sinner especially want to eat at the adults table and the Next Gen ATP finals is not the tournament to do that at. Sinner has a lot of pride and is beyond the participation trophy equivalent of the ATP Finals.



Alternate$12,000
Participation Fee$80,000
Round-robin match win$23,000
Semi-final match win$109,000
Final win$142,000
Undefeated champion$400,000
That's a weird payment structure. Why should an undefeated champion get so much more money than a plain champion.
 

mpournaras

Hall of Fame
That's a weird payment structure. Why should an undefeated champion get so much more money than a plain champion.
The undefeated champion doesn't receive $400,000 for that one match, that's the cap on his prize money for the entire tournament.
I think James is right... but to address your question... US Open series that culminated at the (shocked face) US Open used to give the winner an extra 500k if they had the most points from the USO series tournaments AND won the USO. Roger did it a few times. Not sure if they still do that. So it is not unprecedented
 

Swingmaster

Hall of Fame
The undefeated champion doesn't receive $400,000 for that one match, that's the cap on his prize money for the entire tournament.
I see now. You add them all up.

I think they should try offering a million to the winner. That might've enticed Sinner and FAA. It's hard not to think about those two being absent, just like it was the first year when Zverev wasn't there. Maybe they should expand the field to sixteen or thirty two. If you're not gonna have the best, have more of the non-best.
 
V

Vamos Rafa Nadal

Guest
I am looking forward to it and hope Carlos plays well! :)
 
It's actually not that surprising that a player of Sinner or FAA's level would drop out. The Next Gen tournament is basically an exhibition. The tournament does not provide any points towards competitors' ATP Rankings. If you win, the ATP does not recognize it as an official ATP Tour tournament triumph, although matches do count towards the season's official win-loss record.

For example, if you look at Sinners ATP bio, it says he has won 5 ATP titles... not 6. That's because the ATP doesn't recognize his Next Gen win in 2019 as a title.

The Next Gen Finals also uses funky experimental things, like best of 5 Fast Four scoring with no ad. They were also the first tournament to do completely electronic line calls with no judges. I'm not sure what new things they are trying this year.

The primary reasons to play the Next Gen Finals are for money and notoriety/exposure. In 2019, Jannik was an relatively unknown player that had spent most of 2019 ranked outside of the top 200, only having won a handful of ATP Tour level matches, but was on the rise with a recent Antwerp semifinal that year. Going into the tournament, he actually wasn't ranked high enough to be in the top 8 of the Next Gen standings, but got the Italian wild card entry. However, as we all know, he thumped the field and destroyed poor De Minaur in the championship match. He took home over $400,000 in prize money, which was massive for him at the time, and was suddenly on the radar of everyone that was looking to see who the next ATP star might be. Sinner was then able to parlay the newfound fame into more endorsement deals and wildcards into additional ATP events, which helped him in his ascention to where he is now.

For many of the guys in the current Next Gen draw, especially the two from Argentina, this is an opportunity to gain some much needed cash and possibly break out with some big wins. I've seen everybody but Cerundolo and Baez play, so it's a chance for those guys to get some exposure and see if they can beat a more famous player like Alcaraz or Korda. It's too bad that Brooksby got injured because if he was in, 3 US players would have been in the draw, and we all know that the US is desperate for a champion, or at least a consistant top 10 player. An win by an American could help that player gain some traction in the media, I suppose.

For Sinner and FAA, already ranked #9 and #11 in the ATP rankings, the points in Stockholm are more important for them heading into 2022. Sinner has a chance to end the year with his 5th ATP title, and FAA with his first (which is crazy to think about how successful he's been without winning a title yet).
Great analysis, I fully agree.

Sinner in particular has very little to gain (apart from $$ which is probably becoming less relevant for him already) by playing NextGen Finals. He's already won it, so really if he won it it would do very little, and if he lost, it would be seen as a poor result.
 

McLovin

Legend
I am looking forward to it and hope Carlos plays well! :)
Even though I hate the 'Fast 4' format, I am looking forward to today's Alcaraz/Rune match. Should be interesting, as well as the pending Korda/Musetti match (no info on whether that will be tomorrow or Thursday).
 
S

Slicehand

Guest
Unbeliebable cerundolos coach, all he said for the whole match was " venga, venga" (come on come on) hate live coaching, itll become another sport and will take the fight within oneself away
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
Cerundolo edges him out in that game. I watched one of his matches on clay earlier this year, and he has a solid forehand with lots of spin. But here I can see his serve needs some work. There's a lot of moving pieces and it is not fluid at all.
 
S

Slicehand

Guest
Cerundolo edges him out in that game. I watched one of his matches on clay earlier this year, and he has a solid forehand with lots of spin. But here I can see his serve needs some work. There's a lot of moving pieces and it is not fluid at all.
The thing he does with his head and left shoulder on serve is cringy
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
Cerundolo has a great dropshot, and although his forehand is built for clay, it's no joke on hard courts either.
 

Visionary

Hall of Fame
Unbeliebable cerundolos coach, all he said for the whole match was " venga, venga" (come on come on) hate live coaching, itll become another sport and will take the fight within oneself away
"venga" could perhaps mean come without "on" but I have not watched the match. If I were the coach, I'd give instructions so that only my player'd know what I want him to do. I'd avoid the mic at all costs. Coaching during games and on changeovers may not be the same thing though.
 
S

Slicehand

Guest
"venga" could perhaps mean come without "on" but I have not watched the match. If I were the coach, I'd give instructions so that only my player'd know what I want him to do. I'd avoid the mic at all costs. Coaching during games and on changeovers may not be the same thing though.
Man im spanish, i know what he meant, the only thing i heard him say differently was once that he said "use more the down the line forehand" and the rest of the time, "venga venga venga" just pumping him up when he was losing, i guess they are not used to give live coaching, but i also think if we keep coaching during the future, tennis will lose a very important element, the meditative-self talking, which is so important and has always been
 
S

Slicehand

Guest
Now 218, i know hes looking more for power than accuracy but...
 
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