2021 Rome masters final :- (1) Djokovic [SRB] v/s (2) Nadal [ESP]

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aorgwimbus

New User
Another clay match Djokovic coming to play against Nadal with nothing left in the tank and no realistic chance to win. He really needs to learn to pick his fights. Nadal would never allow himself to get a beatdown on his major opponent’s favorite surface unless it is inevitable..
 

USO

Banned
If Djokovic fans think that the only reason why Djokovic would lose is the schedule then they are wrong. If anything what hurt him is his own sloppiness.

In the FO 2020, he had the chance to finish Tsitispas in straight sets even had match points but then faltered and it went 5 sets.

In Rome 2021, he had the chance to finish Sonego in straight sets even had match points but then faltered and it went 3 sets.

So it's his own fault if he is not "fresh" enough against Nadal.
 

StrongRule

G.O.A.T.
If Djokovic fans think that the only reason why Djokovic would lose is the schedule then they are wrong. If anything what hurt him is his own sloppiness.

In the FO 2020, he had the chance to finish Tsitispas in straight sets even had match points but then faltered and it went 5 sets.

In Rome 2021, he had the chance to finish Sonego in straight sets even had match points but then faltered and it went 3 sets.

So it's his own fault if he is not "fresh" enough against Nadal.
Well, the schedule here is indeed unfair. But we wouldn't hear even one word about it if Nadal was the one who had to play 2 matches.
 
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BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
He still won 2 sets, right? And lost 2 in tiebreaks.
So a 6-2 fifth set for Roger is a "close match" that Rafa almost won? Clue: a close match is the 2019 Wimbledon final, not the 2007 Wimbledon final. Hilarious cherry picking here. Troll somewhere else since you're all over the map at this point.
 
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StrongRule

G.O.A.T.
So a 6-2 fifth set for Roger is a "close match" that Rafa almost won? Clue: a close match is the 2019 Wimbledon final, not the 2007 Wimbledon final. Hilarious cherry picking here. Troll somewhere else since you're all over the map at this point.
Yes, 7-6 4-6 7-6 2-6 6-2 is a close match. It was very even until the last 3 games, which are the reason why the score of the fifth set was one side. So we have to simply ignore the fight that happened before that? AO 2009 also was a close match, despite a 6-2 fifth set.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
So I don't get it after all...He is not the same player, or he is the best on clay who is just always unlucky with the schedule? Have to choose.

This time it would be fair to play the final on Monday, I agree. But in general, Djokovic gets way too many excuses. @mike danny totally ignores it when same things happen to Nadal for example. He wouldn't say a word if Nadal was the one who had to play 2 matches today.
And how do you know that?
 

StrongRule

G.O.A.T.
And how do you know that?
Based on your recent comments. Somehow all the excuses work for Nadal's opponents, but not for him. If anything, at the first half of the tournament the schedule was unfair to Nadal.

Mentality matters a lot in tennis, this is what you ignore. Nadal might gift Djokovic the title here, even if Djokovic will not be physically fit.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
Don't think this will be an easy rafa victory like everyone thinks.

Rafa goes in favourite, more rest.

But when Novak is this much of an underdog, he usually delivers
Yes, I am gun shy to say this is in the bag bcoz I remember I saw a tired, overplayed but game underdog enter a final and absolutely kick some bum at WTF’16 against an opponent who owned that venue and their rivalry. Sadly, he has never played at that level since then.
 
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mike danny

Bionic Poster
First you say Djokovic is done on clay. Now you say he is the best on clay and only loses because he is unlucky with the schedule. Many double standards. Totally ignored me mentioning Madrid 2009 as well.

I would have liked the final to be moved to Monday by the way, it would be fair. But it would not make you stop complaining about it. Even if the final is played a week from now you will keep saying Djokovic is tired. (even though Nadal also played a lot)
I mean, you'd be complaining endlessly if Nadal was the one who played 2 matches in the same day.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Based on your recent comments. Somehow all the excuses work for Nadal's opponents, but not for him. If anything, at the first half of the tournament the schedule was unfair to Nadal.

Mentality matters a lot in tennis, this is what you ignore. Nadal might gift Djokovic the title here, even if Djokovic will not be physically fit.
Nah, dude, you're just making stuff up, because you're obsessed with Djokovic.

And Nadal has handed so many titles to Djokovic on clay indeed LOL.
 

StrongRule

G.O.A.T.
I mean, you'd be complaining endlessly if Nadal was the one who played 2 matches in the same day.
I didn't make excuses for the Madrid 2009 loss, even though Nadal was obviously tired. But what could he do in that final? Try to give his best and do as much as possible.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Nadal played one long match before the semifinal, not few of them like in AO 2017. Also, the semifinal was played for 2 days. I also like how you totally ignore the same thing: how Djokovic was not tired in AO 2012 but suddenly very tired in USO 2013? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Again, when did I say he was tired at the 2013 USO?

And again, Fed also played difficult matches at the 2017 AO. He lost as many sets as Nadal before the final. But sure, he was perfectly fine, while only poor Nadal was in trouble.

Even if it was one difficult match, you forget that before that he had played a full clay season, which more than evens that out with AO 2017. At least at AO 2017 he was fresher due to it being his first serious tournament of the year. And even if the Wimb semi was contested over 2 days, he still had enough energy after 3 exhausting sets of tennis to play 2 more exhausting sets of tennis until 10-8 in the 5th all of this after 5 hours with Del Potro.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I didn't make excuses for the Madrid 2009 loss, even though Nadal was obviously tired. But what could he do in that final? Try to give his best and do as much as possible.
Well, Nadal was tired there, but he was also 23, not 34 like Djokovic is now having played more tennis than Nadal at that time LOL.
 

StrongRule

G.O.A.T.
Nah, dude, you're just making stuff up, because you're obsessed with Djokovic.

And Nadal has handed so many titles to Djokovic on clay indeed LOL.
I wonder how after their Rome 2016 match anyone can seriously say Nadal doesn't have mental problems against Djokovic on clay. Even if that was the worst ever Nadal.
 

Vamos Rafa Nadal

Hall of Fame
Rafa has now won 101 matches in a row on clay when he has won the first set! So I am hoping he gets off to a great start tomorrow! Correct me if I am wrong but it has been awhile since there has been a match between Djokovic and Nadal???

I have been impressed with the improvements Nadal has made in his last two matches since the close match with Shapovalov: improved first serve percentage today (75%!) and improved second serve percentage, esp. yesterday against Zverev. He is making good mental decisions. Of course Djokovic is a more difficult opponent but Nadal is the superior clay player. I know Djokovic can ruin my weekend by winning tomorrow but I really do think Rafa will prevail!!!!
 

StrongRule

G.O.A.T.
Again, when did I say he was tired at the 2013 USO?

And again, Fed also played difficult matches at the 2017 AO. He lost as many sets as Nadal before the final. But sure, he was perfectly fine, while only poor Nadal was in trouble.

Even if it was one difficult match, you forget that before that he had played a full clay season, which more than evens that out with AO 2017. At least at AO 2017 he was fresher due to it being his first serious tournament of the year. And even if the Wimb semi was contested over 2 days, he still had enough energy after 3 exhausting sets of tennis to play 2 more exhausting sets of tennis until 10-8 in the 5th all of this after 5 hours with Del Potro.
Again, that were 2 matches. And then in USO 2018 Nadal played a few tough matches and was done for the rest of the season. Or he wasn't tired then as well?
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I wonder how after their Rome 2016 match anyone can seriously say Nadal doesn't have mental problems against Djokovic on clay. Even if that was the worst ever Nadal.
Bolded is your answer. If the crux if your argument is using 2016 Nadal, then you've lost the argument before it even started LOL.

And Djokovic didn't win that title anyway.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Again, that were 2 matches. And then in USO 2018 Nadal played a few tough matches and was done for the rest of the season. Or he wasn't tired then as well?
USO 2018 was the final slam of the year, of course he was more tired then. AO 2017 is the first slam of the year.

Like I said, there were 2 matches, but on the back of having played a full clay season at age 32, so he wasn't as fresh as at AO 2017.
 

Ray Mercer

Hall of Fame
Going Nadal in 2. Everything points toward a Nadal win. He’s a lot fresher than Djokovic and Djokovic struggled mightily with Tsitsipas and Sonego. Nadal has also crushed him the last few times they’ve played on clay. I would be very surprised if Djokovic pulls it off. It’s sad that Thiem, Tsitsipas and others haven’t buried these two guys on clay yet.
 

StrongRule

G.O.A.T.
Bolded is your answer. If the crux if your argument is using 2016 Nadal, then you've lost the argument before it even started LOL.

And Djokovic didn't win that title anyway.
And the second set in Rome 2019 which he choked after missing tons of break points? I can hardly think of any match against Djokovic when Nadal didn't start showing signs of mental weakness at some point. Sometimes he gets away with it, sometimes not.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
And the second set in Rome 2019 which he choked after missing tons of break points? I can hardly think of any match against Djokovic when Nadal didn't start showing signs of mental weakness at some point. Sometimes he gets away with it, sometimes not.
I mean, you'll have to show me one clay match where Nadal did not get away with it. Outside 2015-2016.
 

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic will have to produce something extraordinary to win tomorrow. He will have to serve like Sampras, and return like Djokovic. In neutral rallies Rafa will just pound him with heaviness. He needs to find a way to be on the front foot as mich as possible and avoid trading blows with Rafa. And for god sake, don't get passive. Pluss the scheduling part doesn't help either.

Peak Djoko needs to arrive tomorrow. If there is someone who can do it, it's him.
 

ACE of Hearts

Bionic Poster
Going Nadal in 2. Everything points toward a Nadal win. He’s a lot fresher than Djokovic and Djokovic struggled mightily with Tsitsipas and Sonego. Nadal has also crushed him the last few times they’ve played on clay. I would be very surprised if Djokovic pulls it off. It’s sad that Thiem, Tsitsipas and others haven’t buried these two guys on clay yet.

And never will. Mugs! They will win when they retire.
 
Djokovic will have to produce something extraordinary to win tomorrow. He will have to serve like Sampras, and return like Djokovic. In neutral rallies Rafa will just pound him with heaviness. He needs to find a way to be on the front foot as mich as possible and avoid trading blows with Rafa. And for god sake, don't get passive. Pluss the scheduling part doesn't help either.

Peak Djoko needs to arrive tomorrow. If there is someone who can do it, it's him.
To be fair he’s already exceeded my expectations. Didn’t think he was even playing well enough on clay to even reach a final again. However, it’s seems like the usual use up lots of energy to just get butchered off Rafa in final scenario again. Still it’s been a great tournament for him.
 
Novak should have close out his match in two sets. If he takes a set off nadal it will be a victory tomorrow.
The fact Novak still had to play 2 matches in one day is a lot. It’s not like moving the final to Monday is a hard choice. Not like they have full crowds at minute anyway. Yeah some but not all. I don’t see why they haven’t. Just typical stubborn attitude and incompetence by the Italian organisers.
 

TennisFan3

G.O.A.T.
Yes, 7-6 4-6 7-6 2-6 6-2 is a close match. It was very even until the last 3 games, which are the reason why the score of the fifth set was one side. So we have to simply ignore the fight that happened before that? AO 2009 also was a close match, despite a 6-2 fifth set.
This has got to be one of the best posts by @StrongRule

That being said I think Wimbledon 2007 was closer than AO 2009 final in the 5th set for sure. AO 2009 Fed had almost given up and looked mentally spooked.

Wimbledon 2007, however, Nadal was fighting and Fed pulled up a serving and aggression masterclass that reminded me of that great Pete Sampras. That was a level that Nadal could not match.
 

yokied

Hall of Fame
They’re 50+ matches into the rivalry folks. We know the various introductions, match scripts and postscripts. Why the hell is everyone still getting so uptight?

It all means nothing for RG, where Noel is likely to get pantsed again, if he gets to the final. So let’s just hope Noel comes to play and at least makes a match of it, for tennys itself, and for Carlos to have something to wring his hands about for the next month.
 

dapchai

Hall of Fame
Serve and net game will be Nadal's biggest weaknesses today. Djokovic can exploit them by returning nicely and putting a lot of dropshots.
 
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