2021 US Open SF: [1] Novak Djokovic vs. [4] Alexander Zverev

To the final


  • Total voters
    203

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
You said without Novak.

Without Novak Med would currently only have 1 slam, Zverev 0 and Tsitsipas 1.

Multi slam champions doesn't equal ATG.
Ok, so I exaggerated a bit. Sue me! :-D ;)
the point is that most of the analysis in this site (weak eras, bad next gen, domination of older players, homogenization) goes away without the big 3. it’s the Big 3 (and Novak now as the last of them still contesting slams) that skew all the results. Without them we would have long ago had an orderly succesion of generations, several other players would have been ATGs (and possibly players some here like to call mugs), Sampras would likely still have the slam record, and no one would be dominating across all surfaces
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Ok, so I exaggerated a bit. Sue me! :-D ;)
the point is that most of the analysis in this site (weak eras, bad next gen, domination of older players, homogenization) goes away without the big 3. it’s the Big 3 (and Novak now as the last of them still contesting slams) that skew all the results. Without them we would have long ago had an orderly succesion of generations, several other players would have been ATGs (and possibly players some here like to call mugs), Sampras would likely still have the slam record, and no one would be dominating across all surfaces
Sure, but if they need 3 guys 2-3 generations older to retire for them to win just 1 slam, it doesn't sound like they're great players.
 

Omega_7000

Legend
Djokovic had to deal with Fedal when he was young. Federer got to deal with the likes of Baghdatis Roddick Bjorkman Kiefer etc. :rolleyes:

Using Federer as a comparison is terrible, if anything, use Nadal as a comparison would serve a better argument
Shut the front door with that nonsense.

Djokovic has a 6 year age advantage over Federer and is another goat contender. At that level a gap of 6 years is enormous.

If Federer was playing now, he would also be sweeping the next gen trash.
If Federer had to deal with a 6 year older Djokovic, he would be dominating that rivalry....Djokovic started beating Fed regularly when Fed was 32/33 and had broken all records already
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
The sport needs another unique dominant player with a beautiful aggressive aesthetic game. Enough of these robotic two handed pushers with no forecourt game.
We have a unique, dominant player who just made the USO final and going for the biggest prize in tennis. Maybe you would enjoy another sport if you don't find him or any of these other players interesting?
 

FedrMatt

Semi-Pro
Djokovic had to deal with Fedal when he was young. Federer got to deal with the likes of Baghdatis Roddick Bjorkman Kiefer etc. :rolleyes:

Using Federer as a comparison is terrible, if anything, use Nadal as a comparison would serve a better argument
Djokovic would be losing regularly to prime Baghdatis, Safin, Hewitt, Roddick, Nalbandian, Ferrero, Kiefer and most of the top 20 from 2004-07 right now.
 

FedrMatt

Semi-Pro
We have a unique, dominant player who just made the USO final and going for the biggest prize in tennis. Maybe you would enjoy another sport if you don't find him or any of these other players interesting?
a 2HBH baseline pusher is “unique”? Lol
 

Ray Mercer

Hall of Fame
We have a unique, dominant player who just made the USO final and going for the biggest prize in tennis. Maybe you would enjoy another sport if you don't find him or any of these other players interesting?
I would enjoy a young Federer or Nalbandian. Medvedev is not an entertaining player. He’s a lanky defensive pusher. You should be jailed for comparing him to a prime Federer.
 
By the time he does.. No one will care. He can't even get big wins in the slams at 24
The Next Gen have been woeful competing in Grand Slams. What good would it be if Zverev finally gets past a limping Novak when he is 38? Legends like Sampras, Fed and Novak did it the hard way i.e. beating the top-dog of the previous Era.

Zverev is undeniably talented and phenomenally skilled. He just misses the extra 1% of self belief and mental fortitude that separates the Big 3 from the rest. He should look in the mirror and will himself to get better and work even harder.

These youngsters need to step up and prove themselves soon otherwise their victories will be hollow. Just winning in Masters 1000 or world tour finals ain't gonna fix anything.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Djokovic had to deal with Fedal when he was young. Federer got to deal with the likes of Baghdatis Roddick Bjorkman Kiefer etc. :rolleyes:

Using Federer as a comparison is terrible, if anything, use Nadal as a comparison would serve a better argument
What a moronic argument :-D :laughing:

And like every other Fed hating moron, you're just throwing out rabdom names like a bozo.

Djokovic has also dealt with the likes of Anderson, Berrettini and Karatsev. How come you don't mebtion them?

The Federer comparison is perfectly valid as they've both had easy and stronger periods, but Novak has had it easier for far longer than Fed, 8 years and counting now.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
We have a unique, dominant player who just made the USO final and going for the biggest prize in tennis. Maybe you would enjoy another sport if you don't find him or any of these other players interesting?
I don't know, man, you're just saying this because you're a Djokovic fan. If Federer was in this position, I'm sure you'd be complaining about the tour as well, like how 2017-2018 was.
 

reef58

Semi-Pro
I’m literally not hahaha

I’m just correcting delusional comments. You guys love projection.
You are projecting your subjective opinions as objective facts in order to bolster your narrative.

You act like the world just stopped producing tennis players all in an effort to inflate Dojo's stats. The current generation of players are great, but they just have a three headed buzz saw Fed, Nad, Joker to deal with. It is really unprecedented. In 5 years one of these players will have 5 plus slams on their resume and people will be talking about how great they are.
 

Ray Mercer

Hall of Fame
You are projecting your subjective opinions as objective facts in order to bolster your narrative.

You act like the world just stopped producing tennis players all in an effort to inflate Dojo's stats. The current generation of players are great, but they just have a three headed buzz saw Fed, Nad, Joker to deal with. It is really unprecedented. In 5 years one of these players will have 5 plus slams on their resume and people will be talking about how great they are.
Nobody will be talking about how great they are because the new expected standard is 20 slams. Anything less is subpar.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Djokovic had to deal with Fedal when he was young. Federer got to deal with the likes of Baghdatis Roddick Bjorkman Kiefer etc. :rolleyes:

Using Federer as a comparison is terrible, if anything, use Nadal as a comparison would serve a better argument

Federer was dealing with Agassi, Nadal(05 onwards), Hewitt, Safin, Roddick, Ferrero, Nalby, Davy

Imagine the rubbish in your mind to bring up Roddick, Bjorknan, Kiefer before bringing up Agassi, Nadal, Hewit, Safin etc.
 
The Next Gen have been woeful competing in Grand Slams. What good would it be if Zverev finally gets past a limping Novak when he is 38? Legends like Sampras, Fed and Novak did it the hard way i.e. beating the top-dog of the previous Era.

Zverev is undeniably talented and phenomenally skilled. He just misses the extra 1% of self belief and mental fortitude that separates the Big 3 from the rest. He should look in the mirror and will himself to get better and work even harder.

These youngsters need to step up and prove themselves soon otherwise their victories will be hollow. Just winning in Masters 1000 or world tour finals ain't gonna fix anything.

Yep.. They all got big slam wins and destroyed the beliefs of their predecessors directly and kicked them to the curb by and large. These last 2 gens of mugs failed to do so.. So thus when they do starting gobbling slams they will be shallow victories and no one will care. We'll just say "What the hell, you had to wait for the Big 3 to become geratric to finally win something of note?
 

Nadal15thslam

Hall of Fame
What a moronic argument :-D :laughing:

And like every other Fed hating moron, you're just throwing out rabdom names like a bozo.

Djokovic has also dealt with the likes of Anderson, Berrettini and Karatsev. How come you don't mebtion them?

The Federer comparison is perfectly valid as they've both had easy and stronger periods, but Novak has had it easier for far longer than Fed, 8 years and counting now.
Nadal is the only one who always had it tough. I don't remember a period when he was beating mugs for years and years
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
I don't know, man, you're just saying this because you're a Djokovic fan. If Federer was in this position, I'm sure you'd be complaining about the tour as well, like how 2017-2018 was.
This is nothing like 2017-2018 though, at least in quality. This tournament has been great. I remember hardly anything about 2017 USO besides Nadal winning. 2018 was better with the Thiem/Nadal classic and Del Potro's quality but it still wasn't on the level of this USO.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
You are projecting your subjective opinions as objective facts in order to bolster your narrative.

You act like the world just stopped producing tennis players all in an effort to inflate Dojo's stats. The current generation of players are great, but they just have a three headed buzz saw Fed, Nad, Joker to deal with. It is really unprecedented. In 5 years one of these players will have 5 plus slams on their resume and people will be talking about how great they are.
ghanta great. Forget ATG level, they are not even at Hewitt/Roddick/Safin/Murray/Wawa level. (maybe Thiem might just make it)
Two gens of utter mediocrity in slams till now (Fail gen and new gen so far)
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
Sure, but if they need 3 guys 2-3 generations older to retire for them to win just 1 slam, it doesn't sound like they're great players.
There are two options. Either we think the Big 3 are unique, once in a lifetime type of players. Or we think hundreds, possibly thousands, of players saw their level drop relative to what was expected of them. i choose the former. Once you take out the Big 3 the whole debate changes.
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
You are projecting your subjective opinions as objective facts in order to bolster your narrative.

You act like the world just stopped producing tennis players all in an effort to inflate Dojo's stats. The current generation of players are great, but they just have a three headed buzz saw Fed, Nad, Joker to deal with. It is really unprecedented. In 5 years one of these players will have 5 plus slams on their resume and people will be talking about how great they are.
Exactly
 

tudwell

Legend
Ignoring any debate about just how high a level Novak or his opponents have displayed in this calendar slam – what strikes me is just how monumental this has all been as a feat of mental strength. Novak’s back has been against the wall over and over, and every time he comes through. Every. Single. Time. You can tell he’s fighting his own nerves, you can see how tight he’s gotten at times, and it’s just incredible to watch the way he pushes all that aside and basically wills himself to a win. It’s gotta be a mind boggling amount of pressure he’s under, and its mind boggling that he hasn’t buckled beneath it.
 
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Nadal15thslam

Hall of Fame
Ignoring any debate about just how high a level Novak or his opponents have displayed in this calendar slam – what strikes me is just how monument this has all been as a feat of mental strength. Novak’s back has been against the wall over and over, and every time he comes through. Every. Single. Time. You can tell he’s fighting his own nerves, you can see how tight he’s gotten at times, and it’s just incredible to watch the way he pushes all that aside and basically wills himself to a win. It’s gotta be a mind boggling amount of pressure he’s under, and its mind boggling that he hasn’t buckled beneath it.
If Novak plays like this in a season like 2012 he wins no slams. In 2021 he almost has 4. The weak era theory is justified.
 

FedrMatt

Semi-Pro
You are projecting your subjective opinions as objective facts in order to bolster your narrative.

You act like the world just stopped producing tennis players all in an effort to inflate Dojo's stats. The current generation of players are great, but they just have a three headed buzz saw Fed, Nad, Joker to deal with. It is really unprecedented. In 5 years one of these players will have 5 plus slams on their resume and people will be talking about how great they are.
As a previous comment said, even without the presence of Novak, the main competitors (Z, Tsitsipas etc) would all still be on 0 to 1 slam
 

fundrazer

Legend
This is nothing like 2017-2018 though, at least in quality. This tournament has been great. I remember hardly anything about 2017 USO besides Nadal winning. 2018 was better with the Thiem/Nadal classic and Del Potro's quality but it still wasn't on the level of this USO.
First week was great. Many enjoyable matches on mens and womens side (I've been watching a lot) . QF onward on mens side has been ****.
 

Nole Slam

G.O.A.T.
I don't know, man, you're just saying this because you're a Djokovic fan. If Federer was in this position, I'm sure you'd be complaining about the tour as well, like how 2017-2018 was.
Idk about him, but I wouldn't spam this forum with salty stupid posts every day.

Not talking about you.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
This is nothing like 2017-2018 though, at least in quality. This tournament has been great. I remember hardly anything about 2017 USO besides Nadal winning. 2018 was better with the Thiem/Nadal classic and Del Potro's quality but it still wasn't on the level of this USO.
He was talking about the years 17-18, not particular USOs.
2017 USO was weak on men's side, but it did have the delpo-Thiem thriller. Not the problem of others if you can't remember it.
 

Kralingen

Hall of Fame
What have I said that’s false?
I definitely think peak Roddick, Hewitt, Safin would be able to get him once or twice, but come on. You said this:
Djokovic would be losing regularly to prime Baghdatis
Let’s not even get into the other names you listed lol. You’ve essentially said he would not only lose in 2004-07, he would lose regularly to the rest of the top 20, aka he would be a middling 12th ranked player or something in that era. Joking or what?
 
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