2022-23 Alcaraz vs 2001-02 Hewitt

[AnOctorokForDinner]

2001 Hewitt vs 2022 Alcaraz

Slams: 3R-QF-4R-W vs 3R-QF-4R-W - exactly identical

Level analysis:

AO - Hewitt lost 7-5 in the fifth to Moya, who lost QF badly to Grosjean; Alcaraz lost 7-6 in the fifth to Berrettini, who took a set off Nadal in SF. Edge Alcaraz though it hardly matters given the early round loss.

RG - Hewitt lost easily to Ferrero while Alcaraz lost in tight-ish four to Zverev. Clear edge Alcaraz

WB - Hewitt lost in 5 to Escude while Alcaraz lost in routine 4 to Sinner. Edge Hewitt

USO - after surviving a tough match vs Roddick, Hewitt dominated Kafelnikov and Sampras; Alcaraz went five with old Cilic, Sinner (saved MP), Tiafoe and tight four with Ruud in the final. Big edge Hewitt

Conclusion: Hewitt gets the nod since he was clearly better in his title run


Masters: 5 SF vs 2 W, 1 SF, 2 QF - big edge Alcaraz (note that he had 1 fewer masters due to no Shanghai)

Level analysis:
Alcaraz won Miami (Cilic, Tsitsipas, Hurkacz, Ruud) and Madrid (Norrie, Nadal, Djokovic, Zverev). Hewitt had SF losses to Gambill and Portas at the respective slot venues (Miami and Hamburg). Massive lead for Alcaraz that's only a little dented by Hewitt's other results being somewhat better (SF losses to Agassi, Rafter, Haas while Alcaraz has SF loss to Nadal and QF losses to Norrie and Rune).


YEC: W vs DNP
Hewitt won dropping just one set (beat Agassi, Rafter, Ferrero, Grosjean). Alcaraz withdrew injured. Naturally, massive lead for Hewitt


Smaller titles:
Hewitt has 4 titles in 8 entries (beat Norman, Sampras, Henman, Federer); Alcaraz has 2 titles and 2 finals in 6 entries (beat Berrettini, Schwartzman, Tsitsipas; lost finals to Musetti, Sinner). Edge Hewitt


Team competition (Davis Cup):
Hewitt played all singles rubbers and went 7-1 with one loss to Escude in the final (France beat Australia 3-2); his wins included straight-setting Kuerten on his home clay
Alcaraz played 2 RR rubbers (lost to FAA, beat Kwon), did not play knockout since he was injured

Overall conclusion: Alcaraz leads masters but Hewitt leads everywhere else, clear nod to Hewitt I think

----

2002 Hewitt vs 2023 Alcaraz

Slams: 1R-4R-W-SF vs DNP-SF-W-SF - slight edge Alcaraz

Level analysis:

AO - Hewitt was still reeling from the effects of chickenpox and lost in 1R; Alcaraz missed it with injury. Basically a zero for both

RG - Hewitt lost 4R to Canas in 4 (Canas lost QF to Costa in 5); Alcaraz lost SF to Djokovic in 4. Clear edge Alcaraz though the double crampstick takes some of it off.

WB - Hewitt had a topsy-turvy five-set match with Schalken but then straight-setted Henman and routined hapless Nalbandian; Alcaraz beat Berrettini, Rune, Medvedev for the loss of one set then toppled Oldovic in an up-and-down five-setter. Neither obviously superior though Hewitt seems the more natural grasscourter to me but let's call it a tie

USO - Hewitt lost to Agassi in 4, who lost to Sampras in 4; Alcaraz lost to Medvedev in 4, who lost to Djokovic in 3. Hewitt's loss was a bit closer against an apparently better opponent so edge Hewitt

Conclusion: small edge for Alcaraz, nothing more


Masters: 1 W, 2 F, 1 SF, 1 QF vs 2 W, 1 F, 1 SF, 1 QF - mild edge Alcaraz

Level analysis: both won IW in dominant fashion (Hewitt beat Moya, Sampras and Henman, Alcaraz beat FAA, Sinner and Medvedev - let's call it a tie given Pete was waning); both lost the final in Cincinnati (Hewitt in tight 2 to Moya, Alcaraz in tight 3 to Djokovic - edge Alcaraz); Alcaraz won in Madrid (Zverev, Khachanov, Struff) while Hewitt lost his other final in Paris in straights to zoning Safin - only a small edge Alcaraz given the difference in opponent caliber; Alcaraz also has three-set SF loss to Sinner and three-set QF loss to Paul while Hewitt has a fairly routine SF loss to Federer and a QF crushing by Safin - again a small edge to Alcaraz

Conclusion: Alcaraz indeed has a mild edge and that's it

YEC: W vs SF - apparent big edge Hewitt
Both made SF with a 2-1 record, then the difference starts. I don't think it's as much of a lead given Hewitt needed tight wins over Federer in SF and Ferrero in F and Djokovic played better than them so I reckon Hewitt loses to him but still performs better than Alcaraz who sprayed plentiful UEs so edge Hewitt.

Smaller titles:
Hewitt has 2 titles in 7 entries (beat Agassi, Henman), Alcaraz has 3 titles and 1 final in 5 entries (beat Norrie, Tsitsipas, de Minaur)
Hewitt's tight win over Agassi in San Jose was the best but overall Alcaraz still obviously did better

Team competition (Davis Cup):
Hewitt didn't play in the World Group, just one match in September qualies against some challenger mug (easy win, of course); Alcaraz didn't play at all. Zero cred for both.

Conclusion: bunch of mild edges lead to a clear nod for Alcaraz overall

As the edges for both years go the opposite ways, it's unclear who leads when comparing the respective two-year periods. I'm inclined to give it to Hewitt since YEC>masters and he has that nice DC run. What say you?

(Of course, Hewitt was a year older, which means something when both are that young - 20-21 and 19-20 respectively - but still it's a nice dispell of the weak transitional era vulture vs strong budding ATG myth.)

 

[The Blond Blur]

Pretty comprehensive breakdown and I deem it to be morally objective. I’ll just add that Rusty finished YE#1 in back to back years to Tiny Carl’s lone YE#1 finish. Think that pretty clearly tips the scales in Hewitt’s favor.

 

[metsman]

01-02 Hewitt in 22-23 wins 3 majors and both YEC, don't see why Djokovic so far past his best should be favored over someone with good fundamentals (which Alcaraz doesn't have and Hewitt does) combined with much superior movement (which Alcaraz should have, but doesn't, and Hewitt does). Djokovic's serve is not nearly good or consistent enough to make up for that vast gulf. Even Federer's serve might not be, and 14- Federer would likely struggle with Hewitt very heavily. Clay today would also suit Hewitt much more, so he'd have much better results there off sheer consistency than 01-02.

Hewitt was better at the majors he won, also decent enough form at a third even if the loss itself was disappointing. If Alcaraz's "edge" comes from losses to Berrettini, Zverev, and unable to hang with a geriatric physically, that's not any kind of edge worth mentioning. Alcaraz's results were better in masters, but the depth and nature of the field/calendar is so much different today that it's almost impossible to compare. With YEC, Hewitt was certainly better outside slams on the biggest stages, and a win like San Jose 2002 or over Kuerten at Davis Cup shows me a much more impressive level than Alcaraz ever has.

That being said I think due to the disappointing second half correctly exposing the Wimbledon win as a fluke, the Alcaraz hype is slowly starting to die down where even semi-casuals (at least people who have a decent sense of who Hewitt is) won't auto put him over someone like Hewitt. After Wimbledon this thread would have gotten a lot more heat.

 

[nolefam_2024]

A mosquito may become number 1 in weak 2001.

 

[Third Serve]

this paints a deeply troubling picture for our resident objective tennis observers to ponder

 

[Razer]

01-02 Hewitt in 22-23 wins 3 majors and both YEC, don't see why Djokovic so far past his best should be favored over someone with good fundamentals (which Alcaraz doesn't have and Hewitt does) combined with much superior movement (which Alcaraz should have, but doesn't, and Hewitt does). Djokovic's serve is not nearly good or consistent enough to make up for that vast gulf. Even Federer's serve might not be, and 14- Federer would likely struggle with Hewitt very heavily. Clay today would also suit Hewitt much more, so he'd have much better results there off sheer consistency than 01-02.

Hewitt was better at the majors he won, also decent enough form at a third even if the loss itself was disappointing. If Alcaraz's "edge" comes from losses to Berrettini, Zverev, and unable to hang with a geriatric physically, that's not any kind of edge worth mentioning. Alcaraz's results were better in masters, but the depth and nature of the field/calendar is so much different today that it's almost impossible to compare. With YEC, Hewitt was certainly better outside slams on the biggest stages, and a win like San Jose 2002 or over Kuerten at Davis Cup shows me a much more impressive level than Alcaraz ever has.

That being said I think due to the disappointing second half correctly exposing the Wimbledon win as a fluke, the Alcaraz hype is slowly starting to die down where even semi-casuals (at least people who have a decent sense of who Hewitt is) won't auto put him over someone like Hewitt. After Wimbledon this thread would have gotten a lot more heat.

All true but you're ignoring the athletic gulf between Hewitt and Alcaraz across 22 years of evolution ??

If we teleported Hewitt from 01 to 2022 then Alcaraz would thrash him, we would need this new Hewitt to be born in early 2000s and evolve accordingly, otherwise he ain't beating 2014 Federer or 2022 Alcaraz or 2023 Djokovic.

Alcaraz might very well be a modern day Hewitt as Djokovic is possibly a modern day Agassi ( a hypothetically enhanced version of Agassi who is significantly younger to Pete in this universe and who won the slams race )

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

All true but you're ignoring the athletic gulf between Hewitt and Alcaraz across 22 years of evolution ??

If we teleported Hewitt from 01 to 2022 then Alcaraz would thrash him, we would need this new Hewitt to be born in early 2000s and evolve accordingly, otherwise he ain't beating 2014 Federer or 2022 Alcaraz or 2023 Djokovic.

Alcaraz might very well be a modern day Hewitt as Djokovic is possibly a modern day Agassi ( a hypothetically enhanced version of Agassi who is significantly younger to Pete in this universe and who won the slams race )

What would you say has fundamentally changed in the world of sports and athletics to encourage such an athletic gulf as you see it?

 

[Razer]

What would you say has fundamentally changed in the world of sports and athletics to encourage such an athletic gulf as you see it?

I donno, maybe some "medicines" that these guys are taking to train so much and be powerful .... plus better racquets and shoes etc maybe

So young Hewitt too would have to be on those to level up, thats what I am saying.

I was watching yesterday's match between Djokovic and Alcaraz ..... Djokovic is nearly 37 and see how he is moving and hitting.... can you imagine a 37 year old 20-25 years ago like that ??? .... I guess great age shift is very real. Today's 36 might be 28-30 of the yesteryears.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

I donno, maybe some "medicines" that these guys are taking to train so much and be powerful .... plus better racquets and shoes etc maybe

So young Hewitt too would have to be on those to level up, thats what I am saying.

I was watching yesterday's match between Djokovic and Alcaraz ..... Djokovic is nearly 37 and see how he is moving and hitting.... can you imagine a 37 year old 20-25 years ago like that ??? .... I guess great age shift is very real. Today's 36 might be 28-30 of the yesteryears.

You've hinted with your quotes there, but indeed, that's probably the only thing I can think of that could advance in a meaningful way. Training methods, recovery techniques, physio and rehabilitation likely won't have changed very much, and Hewitt's athleticism and fundamentals attest to that as an example. The thing is, it's not like there's a sea of 37 year old tennis players performing at high levels, so the premise would yield something of an outlier; if Djoker were to truly be moving like he's 25 year old, as Goran suggests, then I'd wager there's something very shady going on and it's not pyramids.

 

[Razer]

You've hinted with your quotes there, but indeed, that's probably the only thing I can think of that could advance in a meaningful way. Training methods, recovery techniques, physio and rehabilitation likely won't have changed very much, and Hewitt's athleticism and fundamentals attest to that as an example. The thing is, it's not like there's a sea of 37 year old tennis players performing at high levels, so the premise would yield something of an outlier; if Djoker were to truly be moving like he's 25 year old, as Goran suggests, then I'd wager there's something very shady going on and it's not pyramids.

Djokovic has slowed down a little bit from his peak years but the speed difference is not that much visible. I suspect his Vo2 max levels must have come down for sure, unless someone runs a medical test on him no way to determine how much he has declined.

 

[dking68]

Hewitt

 

[mental midget]

You've hinted with your quotes there, but indeed, that's probably the only thing I can think of that could advance in a meaningful way. Training methods, recovery techniques, physio and rehabilitation likely won't have changed very much, and Hewitt's athleticism and fundamentals attest to that as an example. The thing is, it's not like there's a sea of 37 year old tennis players performing at high levels, so the premise would yield something of an outlier; if Djoker were to truly be moving like he's 25 year old, as Goran suggests, then I'd wager there's something very shady going on and it's not pyramids.

fwiw i would bet that no player in history has been more disciplined about all aspects of physical and mental preparation than novak, with the added benefits in advances in sports science. there have certainly been 'heavy trainers' in the past, lendl, borg, courier even...but i believe novak has taken that aspect of the game to a new level with the nutrition, stretching, etc. etc. The guy is a machine.