2022 Wimbledon QF: Novak Djokovic vs. Jannik Sinner

[NoleFam]

Also, @NoleFam, have I decreased this badly in your eyes, that I'm now Ace Of Hearts?

Lol, let's not go overboard here.

 

[ACE of Hearts]

He may not be better than Federer at his best, and I've even said Federer is a better grass court player, but he's the best of his era without a doubt. That's really all that matters, plus he has bragging right in taking away Wimbledons from Federer.

It absolutely does. Are we going to sit here and say Borg didn't deserve his 5 because he mostly won them in a weak era? Most of his grass era was was not that strong honestly with only Connors to battle him who was his pigeon at Wimbledon. Look at his draws. Once McEnroe rose up, Borg was in trouble. Scraped by in '80 and beaten in '81. You are only as good as your competition and Djokovic has been better than his. Playing time travel tennis to say he wouldn't beat peak Federer and he's not worthy is kind of sour grapes.

I am fed fan but i hate when other fed fans bring up this argument about grass. Federer time and time again had opportunities against novak in the grand
Slams and always failed to deliver. Wimbledon in 2019 and the us open in 2015 are just some of his shortcomings. Federer missed his opportunities.

 

[NoleFam]

I am fed fan but i hate when fed fans bring up this argument about grass. Federer time and time again had opportunities against novak in the grand
Slams and always failed to deliver. Wimbledon in 2019 and the us open in 2015 are just some of his shortcomings. Federer missed his opportunities.

2019 Wimbledon was so on Federer's racket. He had his chance. You have to just say he missed his opportunity in a winnable match, credit his opponent and try to move on from it. A loss like that is devastating but you can't say Djokovic didn't earn what he's achieved or he's not worthy of it.

 

[I Am Finnish]

Berdych leads Djokovic 2-1 at Wimbledon, so comparing Sinner to Berdych is a bit off as well for now

Berdych >>>>> Fedal

 

[mike danny]

He may not be better than Federer at his best, and I've even said Federer is a better grass court player, but he's the best of his era without a doubt. That's really all that matters, plus he has bragging rights in taking away Wimbledons from Federer.

Sure, but he beat Fed thanks to his age advantage. Fed couldn't get bragging rights at the AO because Djokovic wasn't in his mid 30's.

It absolutely does. Are we going to sit here and say Borg didn't deserve his 5 because he mostly won them in a weak era? Most of his grass era was was not that strong honestly with only Connors to battle him who was his pigeon at Wimbledon. Look at his draws. Once McEnroe rose up, Borg was in trouble. Scraped by in '80 and beaten in '81. You are only as good as your competition and Djokovic has been better than his. Playing time travel tennis to say he wouldn't beat peak Federer and he's not worthy is kind of sour grapes.

Sorry, it doesn't. Federer not beating Djokovic at the AO is precisely because Djokovic is 6 years younger. That's what we were talking about.

 

[DSH]

He’s dumping all over them.

 

[mike danny]

2019 Wimbledon was so on Federer's racket. He had his chance. You have to just say he missed his opportunity in a winnable match, credit his opponent and try to move on from it. A loss like that is devastating but you can't say Djokovic didn't earn what he's achieved or he's not worthy of it.

If Federer had had a Norrie or Goffin type of player, this wouldn't be an issue. Djokovic still hasn't had this issue and won't have it this year either.

 

[ACE of Hearts]

2019 Wimbledon was so on Federer's racket. He had his chance. You have to just say he missed his opportunity in a winnable match, credit his opponent and try to move on from it. A loss like that is devastating but you can't say Djokovic didn't earn what he's achieved or he's not worthy of it.

Nobody is saying that but my point is Roger has no excuses . Other fed fans give him excuses i don’t have. He always came up short against novak in some very winnable matches. ‍♂️

 

[SonicNirvana]

I like how Nadal ruined the life for some Federer fanboys.

it's pathetic really

 

[Federev]

Ok mikey, back to this. Now I did allude to the fact that Federer somewhat inflated his AO count but that's because Djokovic came back to the top of the game and reeled off 3 in a row at AO. To get to his 6, Djokovic didn't have a player who was missing from the top of the game and who would have been a roadblock to him winning 6. Also, he has not played poorly this tournament if you have been watching his matches.

Djokovic is an all court player at this stage in his career and this is a baseline centric grass era. He approached more than anyone in 2019 for example except Federer, something like 200-250 approaches. He's the best player of his era on grass and I don't know why that is so hard for some Federer fans to accept.

Facts.

I do think 2017 Fed was a unique, strange, and exceedingly potent resurgence. I think he would have won what he won that year regardless.

But I agree with the rest.

 

[I Am Finnish]

#NextGen losing from 2-0 up is spreading faster than Covid.

Savage

 

[ACE of Hearts]

If Federer had had a Norrie or Goffin type of player, this wouldn't be an issue. Djokovic still hasn't had this issue and won't have it this year either.

Dude be honest Roger has done a lot to choking against novak. Those are straight facts. 2019 wimbledon and 2015 us open are prime examples of that. Novak always made him uncomfortable.

 

[NoleFam]

If Federer had had a Norrie or Goffin type of player, this wouldn't be an issue. Djokovic still hasn't had this issue and won't have it this year either.

But he had his era though. Djokovic won 5 Wimbledons over Nadal/Federer. He didn't play Sinner's and Shapovalov's in every match

 

[DSH]

He may not be better than Federer at his best, and I've even said Federer is a better grass court player, but he's the best of his era without a doubt. That's really all that matters, plus he has bragging rights in taking away Wimbledons from Federer.

It absolutely does. Are we going to sit here and say Borg didn't deserve his 5 because he mostly won them in a weak era? Most of his grass era was was not that strong honestly with only Connors to battle him who was his pigeon at Wimbledon. Look at his draws. Once McEnroe rose up, Borg was in trouble. Scraped by in '80 and beaten in '81. You are only as good as your competition and Djokovic has been better than his. Playing time travel tennis to say he wouldn't beat peak Federer and he's not worthy is kind of sour grapes.

Borg had as a rival a genius four years younger than him, while your idol had a genius too but almost six years older than him, do you see the difference?

 

[mike danny]

But he had his era though. Djokovic won 5 Wimbledons over Nadal/Federer. He didn't play Sinner's and Shapovalov's in every match

Yes, he had his era, but it was easier for him than for Fed at the AO.

 

[NoleFam]

Nobody is saying that but my point is Roger has no excuses . Other fed fans give him excuses i don’t have. He always came up short against novak in some very winnable matches. ‍♂

I happen to agree with you. Roger could have been the oldest Slam winner ever. It was there for the taking and he was good enough to do it.

 

[ACE of Hearts]

If Roger had beaten novak in 2015 us open and at the 2019 wimbledon i think i would feel differently. For some strange reason fed always got tight against this guy.

 

[mike danny]

I happen to agree with you. Roger could have been the oldest Slam winner ever. It was there for the taking and he was good enough to do it.

Can't fault him really. No way not to have a mental block since his momentum vs Djokovic was non-existent.

He didn't get 6 matches vs Djokovic at Wimb in his best years like Nadal at RG to build confidence from.

 

[NoleFam]

Facts.

I do think 2017 Fed was a unique, strange, and exceedingly potent resurgence. I think he would have won what he won that year regardless.

But I agree with the rest.

2017 Federer played amazing in both Slams he won. Totally deserved honestly. We can say that peak Djokovic would have been a problem but Federer still played extremely well, especially at Wimbledon, and would have been a challenge for anyone.

 

[I Am Finnish]

Did tennis lose when Federer did it?

 

[ark_28]

Agree but Norrie less hopeless than Goffin is my point

Considering he’s losing to Goffin he probably is more hopeless!

 

[NoleFam]

Borg had as a rival a genius four years younger than him, while your idol had a genius too but almost six years older than him, do you see the difference?

Yea but they only played twice at Wimbledon, the 1st time when he won his 5th title. The rivalry was cut rather short. He won 4 before McEnroe rose up.

 

[ACE of Hearts]

Can't fault him really. No way not to have a mental block since his momentum vs Djokovic was non-existent.

He didn't get 6 matches vs Djokovic at Wimb in his best years like Nadal at RG to build confidence from.

Dude just stop! That was a choke job if i ever saw one why not take your time to get in a very good serve. To lose four straight points is ridiculous. I think federer has the most heartbreaking matches in the history of the game despite being one of the greatest players off all time.

 

[NoleFam]

Can't fault him really. No way not to have a mental block since his momentum vs Djokovic was non-existent.

He didn't get 6 matches vs Djokovic at Wimb in his best years like Nadal at RG to build confidence from.

It was the damage that was done before that match which is the reason why he lost it, which is what @ACE of Hearts is talking about. Wins Federer could have had in USO especially that made him doubt himself against Djokovic.

 

[NoleFam]

 

[I Am Finnish]

Wawrinka
Ymer
Isner
Alcaraz
Djokovic
Goffin / Norrie
Nadal / Kyrgios / Fritz

That's actually about as tough a path as you could conjure up with this field.

Well it's an exhibition tournament no?

 

[Rosstour]

What a joke. How many times is this going to happen?

 

[mike danny]

It was the damage that was done before that match which is the reason why he lost it, which is what @ACE of Hearts is talking about. Wins Federer could have had in USO especially that made him doubt himself against Djokovic.

Well, yeah, the guy in his mid 30's was facing prime Djokovic and those losses dented his confidence. It's easy to say Fed is mentally weak, but who wouldn't be in his place?

 

[NoleFam]

Yes, he had his era, but it was easier for him than for Fed at the AO.

Federer only had to beat the AO GOAT once to win an AO though. Not sure about that.

 

[PUSB]

Considering he’s losing to Goffin he probably is more hopeless!

Tbis after Goffin played 5 sets last round as well!!

 

[mike danny]

Federer only had to beat the AO GOAT once to win an AO though. Not sure about that.

Well, I was saying that Djokovic had no one at Wimb to stop him because the biggest threat was 6 years older than him. Fed couldn't win AO with Djokovic as Djokovic wasn't the older player and he always faced his best versions there except 2007 which I don't put much stock in anyway.

 

[PUSB]

Well, yeah, the guy in his mid 30's was facing prime Djokovic and those losses dented his confidence. It's easy to say Fed is mentally weak, but who wouldn't be in his place?

Federer is not mentally weak. Tell that to Nadal and Djokovic they will laugh at you . 20 majors is all anyone needs to know.

 

[Adv. Edberg]

Close. But you left off the 5-7 2-6 overture sequence.

yeah, I assumed Djoko would be in 3rd gear from the get go

 

[mike danny]

It was the damage that was done before that match which is the reason why he lost it, which is what @ACE of Hearts is talking about. Wins Federer could have had in USO especially that made him doubt himself against Djokovic.

You're talking about USO 2011? Sure, that was bad, but Fed got back at him at Wimb, so I don't think it caused him too much distress.

 

[ACE of Hearts]

Well, yeah, the guy in his mid 30's was facing prime Djokovic and those losses dented his confidence. It's easy to say Fed is mentally weak, but who wouldn't be in his place?

You’re making excuses for his shotty play. Was Federer good enough to win those matches? Yes or no? You’re using the novak prime excuses instead of saying roger was good enough to take novak down.

 

[NoleFam]

Well, I was saying that Djokovic had no one at Wimb to stop him because the biggest threat was 6 years older than him. Fed couldn't win AO with Djokovic as Djokovic wasn't the older player and he always faced his best versions there except 2007 which I don't put much stock in anyway.

Well I could say Federer had less of a rival because Djokovic was 6 years younger than him and he reeled off multiple titles before Djokovic was a threat. The sword cuts both ways.

 

[Larry Duff]

If my aunty was born in Equatorial Guinea she'd be African.

 

[mike danny]

Well I could say Federer had less of a rival because Djokovic was 6 years younger than him and he reeled off multiple titles before Djokovic was a threat. The sword cuts both ways.

Sure, but I'm talking about direct matches vs Djokovic. Always faced the guy at his best there => Fed never beat Djokovic at the AO and Djoko did beat Fed at Wimb.

 

[DSH]

What a joke. How many times is this going to happen?

Ask Janowicz!

 

[FranzS]

Djokovic, please bagel this Italian clown mug.

Unhappy about your life?

Anyway, congrats to Novak. The old guys are still one step above. It will be sad for us to be left with a lesser field of players when they're gone.

 

[Wilhelm]

GG for Novak, but it bothers me that the youngsters never, ever pull through.

 

[randomtoss]

No. Enough of these excuses for the young players. Nadal beat peak Federer in BO5 at age 19. These guys can't beat a 35 years old Djokovic when they are 2-0 up in sets. Moreover, they are so bad that nobody even EXPECTS them to win the match when they are 2-0 up.

I undestand your frustration, I myself cannot wait for the young ones to take over. But still, IMO there's a big difference between a 25 yo and and 20 yo man, be it on mental strength, tennis skills or stamina. We shouldn't have to rely on the very young players to beat Djokodal, the 25-30 yo should be the ones winning these matches.

 

[Third Serve]

Sure, but I don’t think there is any way to measure quality across eras or time

obviously not to a 100% objective degree but I believe it is possible to make some comparisons with a reasonable degree of certainty because we have match statistics and, well, the videos themselves

 

[DSH]

I remember the one Federer played against Benneteau during his title run in 2012. Now that was a close one! Fed was 2 points away from going out in 4.

Benneteau choked!

 

[DSH]

Goffin and norrie fighting for who will get straightseted by earth’s mightiest warrior.

It doesn't matter, the winner of their match will walk away with the biggest check.

 

[DSH]

Nadal fans complain about Djokovic's weak Wimbledon draws, Djokovic fans complain about Rafa's weak RG draws, but when anyone says Nadalovic/Djokodal have vultured during the Inflation Era, they join forces and attack.

And Federer fans like you believe that Roddick was a "worthy" rival for his idol with the head to head 21 to 3 in favor of the Swiss and an 8 to 0 in GS tournaments, the last one well remembered for the choke of the American.

 

[I Am Finnish]

 

[Aabye5]

He is still thin and frail.

So is Djokovic.

 

[Tennis Fan States63]

I had to miss the match......that was FREAKIN INSANE from Djokovic. Full flaps and perfect skid landing.

 

[mike danny]

I undestand your frustration, I myself cannot wait for the young ones to take over. But still, IMO there's a big difference between a 25 yo and and 20 yo man, be it on mental strength, tennis skills or stamina. We shouldn't have to rely on the very young players to beat Djokodal, the 25-30 yo should be the ones winning these matches.

But we have seen 21 year olds beat the best in the past.