2023 ATP Finals RR: Carlos Alcaraz vs. Alexander Zverev

Who wins?

  • Total voters
    18
  • Poll closed .
onyxrose81 said:
Feeling the pressure of being the one chased. I think he’s also downplaying some nagging injuries. These young guys seem to not want to let them heal completely. He’s only 20, he’ll get there again.
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He was still moving and playing well today though, I don't think he's downplaying being injured, I think if anything then it's the opposite but it's just that players like Zverev at their peak are just as good as Alcaraz is. He's still going to have a significant challenge his career and not be as dominant as Djokovic was.
 
I’ve fallen asleep during all 3 matches so far.
Not even gonna attempt to watch this other one tonight unless I’m 100% ready to go to sleep
 
NYTennisfan said:
I don't even recognize this player we've seen the last few months.
Maybe it's a Spaniard thing. Nadal was at his weakest at year end too.

Not to take away from Zverev though. His serve was massive today and would beat most players on that alone.
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Yeah his serve was great and BH good too. The FH was shaky but he tighten it up in the later part of match.

Alcaraz did okay but on faster indoor conditions he’s rushed more. He doesn’t have the same time to set up his shots.
 
Krish0608 said:
Makes you really think if he’ll actually live up to the billing. My personal estimate is 4-5 slams unless he drastically improves his serve and learns to play smarter tennis. This just won’t cut it, in the long run.
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You could be right, but he's only twenty. This year was his third season on the main tour. He won a slam and six titles overall (could still possibly win a seventh here, though seems unlikely). Even if he loses all his round robin matches, he'll finish the year with 84% matches won. Maybe this is as good as it gets for him – that's possible. But even so, the only player on tour that's consistently better than him is Novak. That's not a bad place to be for a player so young.
 
Baseline_Bungle said:
Ha! so it's a matter of allegiance then...

Well, to address your unsaid question, Djoko said yesterday that if he wants to hang with the young guns, he "has to do everything they're doing, if not more" ... ;)

Seriously though, there's no doubt he's added mass this year, he's spoken about it openly many times. Still, his musculature displays none of the unnatural hypertrophy seen, for example, on the Spanish Trinity.

As far as bloodwork/EPO etc, however, he's as suspect as any of them, including the old maestro and all of that lot.
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Excellent comment.
 
tudwell said:
You could be right, but he's only twenty. This year was his third season on the main tour. He won a slam and six titles overall (could still possibly win a seventh here, though seems unlikely). Even if he loses all his round robin matches, he'll finish the year with 84% matches won. Maybe this is as good as it gets for him – that's possible. But even so, the only player on tour that's consistently better than him is Novak. That's not a bad place to be for a player so young.
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Definitely not a bad place to be. However let’s take this into account: He’s been injured and had to miss large chunks of the season every single one of his last 3 seasons. His body is unable to keep up with his style of play. That’s sort of a red flag.
 
Krish0608 said:
Definitely not a bad place to be. However let’s take this into account: He’s been injured and had to miss large chunks of the season every single one of his last 3 seasons. His body is unable to keep up with his style of play. That’s sort of a red flag.
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Who cares. He is just 20.

Him missing season at age 18 and 19 should bother nobody. He didn't miss out any non mandatory tournament after turning 20. He turned down Tokyo after playing Beijing Shanghai. So his body is holding up just right.
 
You know, I sort of like that while Alcaraz is obviously a great player, he isn't having unimpeded ascendancy. Always remember that the Big 3 are such a historical anomaly in terms of dominance and trajectory. Alcaraz is more like many previous greats - showing incredible potential at a young age and making due on his promise - remember he DOES have two Slams already (people forget and write off quickly) - but it hasn't simply been clear sailing to racking up tons of Slams. He'll get more Slams, IMO, but he'll hit road bumps, as he has post-Wimbledon this year. And that's more interesting to me. Watching three players near-completely dominate what amounted to multiple generations of tennis was amazing. But, I really don't need to have that repeated.
 
Zed returning to his old killer server ways. Very high numbers against a guy like Alcaraz. The Spaniard obviously with far bigger weight against Mr. Server-pusher number 2.


TODAY2023DIFFERENCE
C. ALCARAZA. ZVEREV
2588 MDISTANCE RUN2722 M
213.2 KPHFASTEST 1ST SERVE222.7 KPH
50.00%1ST SERVE UNRETURNED45.57%



C. ALCARAZA. ZVEREV
AVERAGE SERVE SPEED
190.2 KPH1ST SERVE208.1 KPH
158.7 KPH2ND SERVE162.9 KPH
188.4 KPHHISTORICAL 1ST SERVE208.6 KPH
157.0 KPHHISTORICAL 2ND SERVE160.3 KPH

C. Alcaraz serves 18% to the M-section of the Deuce court on his 1st serve TODAY and 35.8% in 2023.
 
I'm watching the replay of this on Tennis Channel and I swear that dude calling the match with Annacone just talks and talks, and just to hear the sound of his voice again, talks some more.
 
Terenigma said:
He was still moving and playing well today though, I don't think he's downplaying being injured, I think if anything then it's the opposite but it's just that players like Zverev at their peak are just as good as Alcaraz is. He's still going to have a significant challenge his career and not be as dominant as Djokovic was.
Click to expand...
Watching the match, I was actually struck by how ordinary Alcaraz looked today. It was like some of his power had been drained, and he was just another really good player, but nothing particularly special. Unless he can play his high-energy brand of tennis over the long haul, his success might be relatively limited. I say relatively because he already has two slams, which is awesome, but people have already anointed him the next great, so...
Krish0608 said:
Definitely not a bad place to be. However let’s take this into account: He’s been injured and had to miss large chunks of the season every single one of his last 3 seasons. His body is unable to keep up with his style of play. That’s sort of a red flag.
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Yep, totally agree. As I said above, his success seems to be contingent upon him bringing a huge amount of energy and workload to the table. Without it he loses that edge, and doing so is clearly very hard on this body, and probably hard on his mind as well.
 
robyrolfo said:
Watching the match, I was actually struck by how ordinary Alcaraz looked today. It was like some of his power had been drained, and he was just another really good player, but nothing particularly special. Unless he can play his high-energy brand of tennis over the long haul, his success might be relatively limited. I say relatively because he already has two slams, which is awesome, but people have already anointed him the next great, so...

Yep, totally agree. As I said above, his success seems to be contingent upon him bringing a huge amount of energy and workload to the table. Without it he loses that edge, and doing so is clearly very hard on this body, and probably hard on his mind as well.
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Alky has one significant win, so far: over Djok at this year's Wimbledon.
We'll see how it goes for the little fella.
 
I know it's the warrior more so than the sword, but I wonder how some of these younger guys like Raz and similar are going to do over the long haul, trying to swing near-retail specs at warp speed, versus more traditional (heavier) static/swing-weight at slightly slower speed, per the older players, and a certain portion of younger ones. Seems to me the latter setup is the recipe for more consistency over time. But, I'm happy to be proven wrong...
 
Trip said:
I know it's the warrior more so than the sword, but I wonder how some of these younger guys like Raz and similar are going to do over the long haul, trying to swing near-retail specs at warp speed, versus more traditional (heavier) static/swing-weight at slightly slower speed, per the older players, and a certain portion of younger ones. Seems to me the latter setup is the recipe for more consistency over time. But, I'm happy to be proven wrong...
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They are swinging ladies sticks while pumped to the heavens on the juice …. Something’s gotta give.
 
Trip said:
I know it's the warrior more so than the sword, but I wonder how some of these younger guys like Raz and similar are going to do over the long haul, trying to swing near-retail specs at warp speed, versus more traditional (heavier) static/swing-weight at slightly slower speed, per the older players, and a certain portion of younger ones. Seems to me the latter setup is the recipe for more consistency over time. But, I'm happy to be proven wrong...
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I’ve been thinking the same. It seems someone like Carlos has to input a lot more effort and racquet head speed to produce that good penetrating solid ball that the heavy stick players seem to generate with greater ease.

I am often shocked at the relentless pace and solidity of Djokovic’s strokes. By appearances, he often seems to be the guy expending less effort, but his output is usually better and you can see the difference.
 
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