2023 Roland Garros R32: [3] Novak Djokovic vs Alejandro Davidovich Fokina [29]

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deleted member 629564
  • Start date Start date

Your pick:

  • Total voters
    36
  • Poll closed .
Respectable loss from Fokina.

As is usually the case, except for a few, Djoko's opponents are playing at their 110% of their usual level to keep up.

Meanwhile, Djokovic gets better as the match progresses. He figures out his opponents, and starts playing at higher level. Often his less than 100% level is good enough to win. His opponents 110% level meanwhile has degraded to lower level, which is not enough to win against Djokovic.
 
The Guru said:
I guess it depends tho. Like protein powder and creatine have a performance enhancing benefit too. It depends how he thinks it works and what type of advantage he thinks its giving him. That's why he should be asked about it. I agree though its potentially problematic.
Click to expand...
This is fair.
 
nachiket nolefam said:
I will say this. Be scared Carlos. Be very very scared.
Click to expand...
At this point hyping up Carlos as his equal still somehow feels like when Rooney was hyped up as Messi's rival in world football for a short while just to have ANY rivalry. In both cases I ask myself "Why exactly him"? People simply need a rivalry between two players I guess.
 
Fokina was very good just Djokovic had no plans to lose today. I think in potential Sf with Alcaraz a day time match is better for Alcaraz as it could become too physical for Djokovic. At night it will produce highest quality match and both I feel will play there best at night but in day Alcaraz will be better so it suits him better
 
So many breaks achieved and neutralized back to loss 2 sets in tie breaks has broken Alex's mind.

Good match for Foki, has taken Djo to a >3.5hr match with two tight sets where no one clearly dominated.
 
My prediction barely held out. Really thought we were looking at a 4-5 set match.

I think the potential Alcaraz matchup is going to be slightly overrated.

What I mean by that is it's either gonna be something like this where Charlie plays insane tennis, Djoko barely holds on, then manages to squeak out two sets then Charlie has a let off and it's over in 3-4 sets not a lot of drama.

Or, if Djoker has an off day and a really sluggish start, it could be a blowout in favor of Alcaraz.
 
tudwell said:
I feel like there's a sort of revisionism surrounding Djokovic. Novak routinely came up short with flat mental performances in big matches in the first half of his career. Since his reawakening in mid-2018 he has indeed been one of the most insanely clutch tennis players ever.
Click to expand...

Djokovic beating Fed twice while 2 match points down in both 2010 and 2011 USOs helped contribute to his mental toughness aura.

King_ Zeglan12 said:
Alcaraz should be happy looking at this match , if Fokina was able to match 2/3 sets , Alcaraz won't have any problem either
Click to expand...

On the other side, Djokovic should be happy looking at Carlos dropping a set to Daniel, a far inferior player to Fokina, while Djokovic has yet to drop a set.

Rosstour said:
I think Fed won more matches from MP down than either of the other two, no?
Click to expand...

There is a whole thread devoted to this. In sheer numbers, Federer has won more matches from MP down than Nadal or Djokovic, but he's lost a lot more matches from match point up than Nadal or Djokovic too and the ratio is most unfavorable to Fed by a lot:

Match points saved and squandered by the Big Four

***FEDERER*** MP WASTED (24) 21 Doha QF Basilashvili 6–3, 1–6, 5–7 (1) 19 Wimbledon F Djokovic 6–7(5), 6–1, 6–7(4), 6–4, 12–13(3) (2)! 19 Madrid QF Thiem 6–3, 6–7(11), 4–6 (2) 18 Wimbledon QF Anderson...
tt.tennis-warehouse.com tt.tennis-warehouse.com
 
The Guru said:
I mean steroids are also available to everyone but we still ban them. If this nanotechnology supposedly gives him increased muscle mass then what's the difference? People should ask him about it. It could be fine but maybe not. Obviously the device doesnt work but thats not the point.
Click to expand...
The product description talks about harnessing light energy generated from within the body lol. It's obviously not designed to confer any tangible physical or athletic benefit to the user. The use of this 'nanotechnology' seems to fall into the same category as boxers who swear by practicing semen retention or celibacy going into big fights. These are all quasi-spiritual practices which supposedly allow individuals to transmutate and channel energy from within the body into their athletic pursuits. At least that's what these people claim. Djokovic obviously believes that this thing is providing him with some tangible benefit on the court (just like he believes that he benefits from visiting energy pyramids in Bosnia prior to important events), but that belief is likely more akin to the faith that a devout Christian athlete might have in the idea that their God is going to pull them through a tough match than it is a powerlifter who is knowingly enhancing their performance through steroid usage. If we're going to call Djokovic's integrity into question over this 'nanotechnology' then we might as well start banning athletes from wearing good luck charm bracelets on their wrists or crosses on their chest as well.
 
Last edited:
Mivic said:
The product description talks about harnessing light energy generated from the body lol. It's obviously not designed to confer any tangible physical or athletic benefit to the user. The use of this 'nanotechnology' seems to fall into the same category as boxers who swear by practicing semen retention or celibacy going into big fights. These are all quasi-spiritual practices which supposedly allow individuals to harness and transmutate energy from within the body. At least that's what these people claim. Djokovic obviously believes that this thing is providing him with some tangible benefit on the court (just like he believes that he benefits from visiting energy pyramids in Bosnia prior to important events), but that belief is likely more akin to the faith that a devout Christian athlete might have in the idea that their God is going to pull them through a tough match than it is a powerlifter who is knowingly enhancing their performance through steroid usage. If we're going to call Djokovic's integrity into question over this 'nanotechnology' then we might as well start banning athletes from wearing good luck charm bracelets on their wrists or crosses on their chest.
Click to expand...
See like I view at that way but I don't know if Djokovic views it that way. Maybe he does and then no issues but if he thinks this thing is like making him faster and stronger and have more stamina in a direct way then its different.
 
The Guru said:
See like I view at that way but I don't know if Djokovic views it that way. Maybe he does and then no issues but if he thinks this thing is like making him faster and stronger and have more stamina in a direct way then its different.
Click to expand...
Why would it make any difference what Novak thinks?
 
GabeT said:
Why would it make any difference what Novak thinks?
Click to expand...
Because I care about intentions not outcomes. Trying to cheat and failing is the same as trying to cheat and succeeding. Again I'm not remotely accusing Novak of cheating but I think he should be asked about this.
 
The Guru said:
See like I view at that way but I don't know if Djokovic views it that way. Maybe he does and then no issues but if he thinks this thing is like making him faster and stronger and have more stamina in a direct way then its different.
Click to expand...
I'm almost certain that this isn't the case based on what I know about Djokovic and what I've read about the technology. He probably does believe it's making him more formidable and enhancing his physical performance on the court but not in a direct way like you said. Boxers and MMA fighters believe that semen retention is going to make them faster and stronger come fight night as well.
 
Djokovic_is_the_best#1 said:
Fokina holds. Overheadovic appears haha.
Click to expand...
Bubcay said:
Bloody Djokosmash™
Click to expand...
Kind love when pros miss those shots, especially one of the greats like Djokovic (who shanked that one so bad his dampener came out). Makes me feel so much better when I do the same thing. It should also make people give Sinner a little more slack about that MP yesterday.

Tennis Fan States63 said:
I was thinking also along the lines of how he approached the game and his craft - and now with just trying to be able to compete - to me, much like Rafa Nadal and Novak Djokovic in some ways.
Click to expand...
Golf is a game, not a sport. Hard to compare them.

Kralingen said:
You joke, but this exact allegation happened in chess.
Click to expand...
Surely butt-plugs are just for the feels, no?

The Guru said:
Because I care about intentions not outcomes. Trying to cheat and failing is the same as trying to cheat and succeeding. Again I'm not remotely accusing Novak of cheating but I think he should be asked about this.
Click to expand...
I think this is the point. It's pretty obvious that little thing does nothing, but the point is that Novak is willing to do whatever it takes to gain an edge. And that mentality...
 
It was before UYSK the great loss but when you type it up on google turns out he has spoken about it other times.
 
GabeT said:
Novak is using a product that can be bought by anyone (https://get.taopatch.com/prodotto/taopatch-start/) . So in what universe is this “cheating” or can even be remotely interpreted as cheating?
Click to expand...
If you dont understand by now you have bad reading comprehension or incapable of thinking abstractly beyond what the rules say. Again clearly I'm not accusing him of cheating and I don't think the device does literally anything.
 
The Guru said:
If you dont understand by now you have bad reading comprehension or incapable of thinking abstractly beyond what the rules say. Again clearly I'm not accusing him of cheating and I don't think the device does literally anything.
Click to expand...
I’m asking why you think anyone should ask Novak anything about this. It’s an openly available device that is perfectly legal that he thinks helps him (even if probably no one else does). If some player though wearing a Casio watch or dressing up in red Lacoste gear would help him win that would be his issue, not something the warranted any questioning
 
GabeT said:
I’m asking why you think anyone should ask Novak anything about this. It’s an openly available device that is perfectly legal that he thinks helps him (even if probably no one else does). If some player though wearing a Casio watch or dressing up in red Lacoste gear would help him win that would be his issue, not something the warranted any questioning
Click to expand...
If he thought the device would empower him to serve 300 miles per hour and run 50 miles an hour than such a device would be unfair and should clearly be banned. Wearing that device with that belief would be a violation of sportsman of fair sportsman behavior. I don't know how else I can spell this out for you.
 
The Guru said:
If he thought the device would empower him to serve 300 miles per hour and run 50 miles an hour than such a device would be unfair and should clearly be banned. Wearing that device with that belief would be a violation of sportsman of fair sportsman behavior. I don't know how else I can spell this out for you.
Click to expand...
why would it be unfair? That‘s the whole point. If Novak and his team found a new training technique that’s allowed him to perform better that wouldn’t be cheating nor (assuming no banned substances are used) would it be “unfair”.

you seem to be implying that if a player finds a way to improve his performance using perfectly legal means that that is somehow unsportsmanlike. This makes no sense.

there was an article recently about his Phelps trained to win so many Olympic medals and it was a different approach (and ultimately more successful) than his opponents. Good for him. Again, unless he used illegal substances that is not unsportsmanlike.

Novak is using an openly available and perfectly legal product that he thinks gives him an edge. Let’s assume he is right. That he somehow found a use for this product that others didn’t, or that for some reason it helps him more than it does others players. That’s no different than having a unique training or nutritional regime and there is nothing unsportsmanlike about it
 
GabeT said:
why would it be unfair? That‘s the whole point. If Novak and his team found a new training technique that’s allowed him to perform better that wouldn’t be cheating nor (assuming no banned substances are used) would it be “unfair”.

you seem to be implying that if a player finds a way to improve his performance using perfectly legal means that that is somehow unsportsmanlike. This makes no sense.

there was an article recently about his Phelps trained to win so many Olympic medals and it was a different approach (and ultimately more successful) than his opponents. Good for him. Again, unless he used illegal substances that is not unsportsmanlike.

Novak is using an openly available and perfectly legal product that he thinks gives him an edge. Let’s assume he is right. That he somehow found a use for this product that others didn’t, or that for some reason it helps him more than it does others players. That’s no different than having a unique training or nutritional regime and there is nothing unsportsmanlike about it
Click to expand...
Right now genetic or robotic implants are probably not illegal by the letter of the law (because they dont exist). If Djokovic discovered how to make robo arms and then built one for himself and replaced his arm with it I think we could agree that would be bad. Or if he cut off his arm and used genetically engineered a god arm and grew it back on his stub. I think we're capable of thinking past what the rules say to see whats actually in the spirit of the sport. A device that just makes you stronger is not superior training it has nothing to do with the person as an individual. It's not in the spirit of sport. I don't know why you insist on being so obtuse about this. Obviously a device that allows you to perform at superhuman levels due to nothing you did is not in the spirit of sport.
 
The Guru said:
Right now genetic or robotic implants are probably not illegal by the letter of the law (because they dont exist). If Djokovic discovered how to make robo arms and then built one for himself and replaced his arm with it I think we could agree that would be bad. Or if he cut off his arm and used genetically engineered a god arm and grew it back on his stub. I think we're capable of thinking past what the rules say to see whats actually in the spirit of the sport. A device that just makes you stronger is not superior training it has nothing to do with the person as an individual. It's not in the spirit of sport. I don't know why you insist on being so obtuse about this. Obviously a device that allows you to perform at superhuman levels due to nothing you did is not in the spirit of sport.
Click to expand...
If and when a device or method or substance exists (and is illegal) then we can discus’s unsportsmanlike conduct. But finding something that provides you with an advantage with little to no extra effort on part of the player DOES NOT mean it’s unsportsmanlike

a player like Novak (and Nadal and Fed and other top players) has huge advantages in the form of access to personal trainers, physical therapists, and nutritionists, all of which we know improve performance and none of which has anything to do with the player ‘as an individual’. Not sure why you insist on being obtuse. I could add access to private planes and better training grounds to the list.
 
GabeT said:
If and when a device or method or substance is illegal then we can discus’s unsportsmanlike conduct. But finding something that provides you with an advantage with little to no extra effort on part of the player DOES NOT mean it’s unsportsmanlike

a player like Novak (and Nadal and Fed and other top players) has huge advantages in the form of access to personal trainers, physical therapists, and nutritionists, all of which we know improve performance and none of which has anything to do with the player ‘as an individual’. Not sure why you insist on being obtuse. I could add access to private planes and better training grounds to the list.
Click to expand...
Ok well I guess you and I just differ on the rules being everything.
 
The Guru said:
Ok well I guess you and I just differ on the rules being everything.
Click to expand...
It’s not just rules. both the letter and the spirit of the law (or tennis rules in this case) allow players to find tech and training that can improve their results, even if the rest of the tour doesn’t have access to them. That’s why no one thinks that Fed or Nadal flying in a private plane with their trainer and physio is perfectly Ok, even if it gives them clear advantages over the 99% of players that can only dream of ever having such advantage.
 
GabeT said:
It’s not just rules. both the letter and the spirit of the law (or tennis rules in this case) allow players to find tech and training that can improve their results, even if the rest of the tour doesn’t have access to them. That’s why no one thinks that Fed or Nadal flying in a private plane with their trainer and physio is perfectly Ok, even if it gives them clear advantages over the 99% of players that can only dream of ever having such advantage.
Click to expand...
So basically according to you if a player wore an iron man suit onto the court. No problem until its banned. Cool.
 
The Guru said:
So basically according to you if a player wore an iron man suit onto the court. No problem until its banned. Cool.
Click to expand...
Do you think an iron man suit would be allowed in a tennis match today? Obviously not so why bring up this ridiculous example?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

D
  • Poll Poll
Olympics 2020 Tokyo R16: [1] Novak Djokovic SRB vs [16] Alejandro Davidovich Fokina ESP
2
Replies
52
Views
3K
Slicehand
S
D
  • Poll Poll
2023 Roland Garros R32: [1] Carlos Alcaraz Garfia vs Denis Viktorovich Shapovalov [26]
7 8 9
Replies
447
Views
7K
Krish0608
Krish0608
D
  • Poll Poll
2023 Australian Open R32: [27] Grigor Dimitrov vs Novak Djokovic [4]
12 13 14
Replies
683
Views
14K
disgruntledamsel
disgruntledamsel
D
  • Poll Poll
2023 Roland Garros R128: [3] Novak Djokovic vs Aleksandar Kovacevic
3 4 5
Replies
216
Views
5K
D.Nalby12
D
D
  • Poll Poll
2023 Australian Open QF: [5] Andrey Rublev vs Novak Djokovic [4]
14 15 16
Replies
776
Views
18K
Rafa4LifeEver
Rafa4LifeEver
Back
Top