2023 Roland Garros SF: [1] Carlos Alcaraz vs. [3] Novak Djokovic

[Smecz]

Even Fedal had cramps, two of the most pampered players ever. I’m sure even Novak had experienced that.

Carlos is not that muscular.

When did federer have cramps?

 

[The Fedfather]

I had no doubt Djokovic would defeat the overrated Alcaraz. One wonders how all of the passengers on Alcaraz's train--the very same people who spent the past few weeks guaranteeing Alcaraz was not only going to win the 2023 French Open (due to those Nadal-like clay talents...whoopsy), but would utterly dominate and destroy Djokovic if they met at this event.

That collective act of drunken fanboy genie-bottle rubbing was nonsense all along, proven with such potent talent today. Congratulations to Djokovic for allowing his game to state the obvious.

This is the equivalent of saying that sayings Djokovic is one of the greatest players was nonsense all along because he absolutely blew it against Medvedev at the USO 2021 final.

Surprise, surprise, people reasonably make judgements about a player's overall level based on how the player performed consistently in the past. Not based on a single match, not based on a single tournament a player either won or lost.

The Alcaraz hype train is doing just fine because the guy is the world #1 with a Slam and other big titles to his name at barely 20 years old. This loss from him was not him playing at his usual level and then being impeded physically. It says nothing about his general ability.

 

[Bogdan_TT]

One of the reasons i support Novak so much is he gets so much stick from Western press & media and definitely some of that is because he is Eastern European. I remember Lendl used to get similar treatment although not quite as bad.

Take today's BBC headline "

Novak Djokovic through to final after Carlos Alcaraz injury​

No mention that Novak was playing great or that cramps are all part of game and to do with fitness levels and not a true injury. Trust me if position had been reversed they would have said "Alcaraz makes Novak look old as he breaks him down through sheer power "

I really hope Novak wins on Sunday to get it right up them lol

This is felt by 100% of people from EE and denied by 99% of people from WE. True story.

 

[Benf15harp]

It was a cramp. Not an injury.

Sure it was

 

[gqnelly]

Even Fedal had cramps, two of the most pampered players ever. I’m sure even Novak had experienced that.

Carlos is not that muscular.

https://www.**************.org/imgb/134088/carlos-alcaraz-s-body-transformation-from-skinny-to-muscular.webp

 

[time_fly]

Alcaraz redlining trying to take this set. So far it’s working for him, but he’s not going to make it 5 sets playing like this so he’d better take these three in a row.

Let’s see how long Carlos can go without cramping if he’s running 3 40 meter sprints per point.

I'm not the type to brag by saying I called it in the middle of the second set ... but I called it in the middle of the second set.

 

[Boom-Boom]

When did federer have cramps?

never

 

[Boom-Boom]

It was a cramp. Not an injury.

he even started to cramp with right hand before his leg … very weird stuff

 

[Rina]

Glad this was, as i posted, a mock thread. No need to clap back AT all “losers.” Lol at Carlos winning cramps or not.

 

[joekapa]

he even started to cramp with right hand before his leg … very weird stuff

Yes. His whole body locked up.

 

[Baseline_Bungle]

"I don't mind the boos. I just keep winning."

GOOSEBUMPS

 

[Boom-Boom]

Yes. His whole body locked up.

yep. rarely saw this at top pro level
he needs to stop chasing every ball 300% and Djoko makes you visit the Chatrier of course …but for a 20 year old to cramp so badly after only 2 sets is weird…

 

[marc45]

...edit

 

[uscwang]

While I believe Novak will win this SF in 5, there is a distinct chance that this SF ends in a retirement.

Novak has a list of injuries too long to talk about.

Here is a list of Alcaraz' recent injuries:
Nov 4, 2022 Retired from Paris Masters and skipped WTF due to an internal oblique muscle tear in the left abdominal wall with an estimated recovery time of six weeks.
Jan, 2023 Withdrew from AO due to a muscle injury in the right leg picked up in training.
Feb 26, 2023 Picked up a grade one strain in the (same) right hamstring in the final in Rio. Withdrew from Acapulco.
April 1, 2023 Picked up post-traumatic arthritis in the left hand and muscular discomfort in the spine during Miami. Withdrew from MC.
While Alcaraz' injuries are unfortunate and one can only imagine what more he could've achieved without them, they are abnormally frequent for a player this young and should raise an alarm that something in his way of training and playing may not be sustainable.

Called it before the match. It is an important factor overlooked by most people who thought Alcaraz' stamina is better than or equal to Novak's.

 

[Smecz]

never

It always puzzled me that Federer never had cramps or shortness of breath, one of the best physically prepared players of all time

 

[Tiki-Taka]

A real pity it ended this way. We were in for a match for the ages the way it started.

Still, so much praise for both of these guys. Carlos still has some holes in his game, or rather the approach to the game. Something he can learn from as his career only just started and with immense success already. For me he undoubtedly has the highest potential of anyone that came after the Big 3, and regardless of the downs he will inevitably experience along the way, he is on his way to fulfill it. So many qualities in his tennis, the variety, the little dose of arrogance on the court, mixed with humility and respect towards his competitors... He's got it all to be the star of the show for many years to come. As for today, refusing to wave the white flag despite it being clear there was no chance to stay alive, massive praise to him for that.

And what to say about Novak we haven't said before. I keep reiterating he is the man to beat to this day. He is not backing down. When he is dialed in, just winning a set against him requires superhuman efforts. It happened today again. It's going to take something really special in the near future, something we haven't seen yet, for him to start doubting himself whether he is still the best in the business. I am fully behind him and wish him all the best on Sunday. Especially after everything he had to endure last year.

Finally, a lovely match up we have in store for the near future. Like I said before the match, a perfect mixture of youthful and experienced burning fires going at each other, holding nothing back. Their first encounter was amazing, this one was on its way. May we get many more with both of them in good form and health as regardless of those outcomes, tennis shall win without question.

 

[Boom-Boom]

Called it before the match. It is an important factor overlooked by most people who thought Alcaraz' stamina is better than or equal to Novak's.

yes good call

 

[Rina]

Summary of the match:When a legend moves you around the court so much, you get cramps from hell even that young! Then crumple to the ground like a rag doll.
The end.

 

[Walrus Gumball]

Jim Courier made a good observation. Mental stress and the nerves, from playing in a huge match, contributed to the cramping. Props to Djokovic's mental strength.

It’s something weird because Carlos said his whole body was cramping. This after only two sets.

 

[Kralingen]

It always puzzled me that Federer never had cramps or shortness of breath, one of the best physically prepared players of all time

Most efficient biomechanical mover in tennis history. Glided rather than ran.

 

[Smecz]

Most efficient biomechanical mover in tennis history. Glided rather than ran.

This real true,I haven't seen a single match where he's tired!!! This is Madness!!

 

[esvc]

what a depressing match and obnoxious crowd that lost all shame.
but i always suspected Alcaraz will have his Achilles heel with injuries.
Ferrero should think of some new way.

Worst crowd of all time

 

[esvc]

ROFL at the statement above. Watching Djokovic playing tennis should be a privilege for tennis fans. His athletic ability is one of the best I've ever seen. His ability to turn defence to offence is truly remarkable. His mental strength is out of this world.

 

[Mark-Touch]

A real pity it ended this way. We were in for a match for the ages the way it started.
...
Finally, a lovely match up we have in store for the near future. Like I said before the match, a perfect mixture of youthful and experienced burning fires going at each other, holding nothing back. Their first encounter was amazing, this one was on its way. May we get many more with both of them in good form and health as regardless of those outcomes, tennis shall win without question.

I have a feeling we will see very few.

 

[Smecz]

Carlos Alcaraz lost to the great expectations of the fans, I myself thought that he would already win Roland Garros 2023.

And the pressure was on Carlos not Djokovic, actually it was the reverse of Medvedev vs Djokovic.

It was Novak who had the most to lose if he lost, and so today it was Carlos who was in a worse position.

Currently, Alcaraz is the new young hope of tennis, and Djokovic is slowly leaving the stage.

The great mistake of the young Spaniard was the desire to prove his position to everyone and especially to the Serb.

At the beginning of the 3rd set, when it seemed that Carlos was about to be on the right track and overshadow Novak in this match, the young boy wanted to show at all costs who is superior here.

And at that moment Carlos lost the match, he wanted to put on a show, and he overdid it.

The whole circus started after winning the second set and at its beginning, it was then that the soda water hit the boy.

The boy got hot, pumped up and finally the young 20-year-old body could not stand it, and the old fox was calculating, he played with a cold head, without madness and excitement.

 

[esvc]

Oof. Hope the cramps resolve quickly.

Funny and also unsurprising that “injured” Novak is holding up better physically than his 20-something opponent.

Carlos should go vegan and lose those big bulky muscles. Tennis is like an endurance sport nowadays. It's better to have a marathon athlete's physical build than a body builder's build in tennis.

 

[esvc]

Lol Djokovic doesn't need to be roaring vs a compromised opponent.

Djokovic is really pathetic. How can you roar in his face like that for winning your serve when Carlitos is injured.

Playing an injured opponent can be dangerous and can affect your mindset. That's what happened to Wawrinka in AO 2014 who lost a set while playing against an injured Nadal who was serving like 60 mph. Djokovic was pumping himself up to stay focused and motivated, he didn't want the injury situation to affect his game.

 

[esvc]

I mean, Alcaraz is still on court trying to win. Must be hard to keep focus in this situation and he is trying noto let up. Remember how Wawrinka lost a set to injured Nadal in 2014 AO?

I was thinking exactly the same. See my reply above.

 

[esvc]

I'm no big Djokovic fan, but this is just unnecessary hating by the crowd.

Worst crowd ever. It reminds me of the time when I stayed at a quiet resort in a forest and all of the sudden a group of French backpackers came and then they were yelling and singing all night long, violating the guest rules. They were kicked out of the resort that same night. French Open officials should kick out those obnoxious crowd.

 

[Sephiroth]

this has to be the worst hype encounter I've ever witnessed in tennis, today was shockingly sad

 

[Rina]

Well there it is then! Alcaraz was finally faced with his first real test where the whole tennis world was asking questions about his true talents and abilities on the biggest stage....and he failed miserably!
He's just another Lleyton Hewitt. A transitional champion who will try to vulture a few majors before the next great champion arrives on the tour and takes over.
He's nothing close to the big 3. Never was or will be.
Feel sorry for the Nadal fans who had to listen to all the garbage for months on end about this guy being the next Rafa. At least all that false hype will finally die down. Everyone can take a breather now.

It is possible, though, that in this new era of mental and physical midgets, he will be a champ among chimps.

 

[McGradey]

Very disappointing fate for a match that was becoming the classic we all hoped for. Congrats to Djokovic who played a superb first set and endured the war that was the second set. And commiserations to the youngster, good to see him continue to give it a go — he will be back here soon enough for another crack.

 

[Jonesy]

Sad outcome, i wanted a full match.

I had both players equal level wise, with Novak mental superiority at slams being the diferential to win a competitive match in 4.

 

[JasonZ]

This is the equivalent of saying that sayings Djokovic is one of the greatest players was nonsense all along because he absolutely blew it against Medvedev at the USO 2021 final.

Surprise, surprise, people reasonably make judgements about a player's overall level based on how the player performed consistently in the past. Not based on a single match, not based on a single tournament a player either won or lost.

The Alcaraz hype train is doing just fine because the guy is the world #1 with a Slam and other big titles to his name at barely 20 years old. This loss from him was not him playing at his usual level and then being impeded physically. It says nothing about his general ability.

i agree about most of your post, but the last part. how do you know thar he played not at his usual level? maybe he played the best he is capable as of NOW, but his opponent today was simply much better than all his opponents before.

 

[esvc]

Novak doesn't have Sascha's nuke of a 1st serve and Alcaraz is a much better player now. I think a better template is to watch some of the Alcaraz vs Sinner matches and although he probably tanked the match against Maroszan there's probably a couple of valuable nuggets of knowledge in there

Zverev's serve is a weakness. It's prone to double faults.

 

[Nostradamus]

absolutely disgusting behavior by novak in this final. No wonder eveyrone hates him. and this is why he will never be loved as one of the greates

 

[esvc]

May tennis be saved today

Your wish came true. Tennis has been saved today.

 

[Deleted member 765728]

Once again Alcaraz's fitness lets him down. For a 20 year old who should be at the height of his fitness to lose that particular battle to a guy 16 years his senior is worrying. It's the 1 big question mark I have over his future career!!!

Still not sure what to think about this. He played and won three consecutive five-setters at the USO last year, he also played two matches in the same day (SF and F), including a long SF, at Barcelona and won them both. Can't remember him cramping at all, so this was so unexpected. Never really got the impression that fitness was his problem before this SF.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

 

[Lauren_Girl']

Djokovic is going to have won 3 RGs against Andy Murray, Zombie Nadal who could only play 3.15 sets, and Zombie Alcaraz who just ****ing died as soon as he’d started hurting Djoker’s serve regularly after 2 sets

I think the universe has always intended him to be the GOAT, all this stuff mortals like the AO and US govt do to stop him just delays the inevitable

Please. In any other era without Nadal he would already have 6 or 7 RG.
2012 - no one knows what happens if Djokovic isn't stopped by the rain and if the final doesn't conclude on Monday. He was on a 8 games streak.
2013 - if he doesn't touch the net at 4-3 A-40, would Nadal have come back from 5-3 and won the match. Would Ferrer stand a chance in the final?
2022 - he was up 5-2 and had multiple set points on his serve. We all know Djokovic's stats in 5th sets... Would Zverev and Ruud stand a chance?
3 MASSIVE opportunities missed here.
2008, 2014, 2020... Big chance he would've won without Nadal. No one else could stop him.
Djokovic also straight setted Berdych and Thiem in 2016. It was not the easiest draw before Murray.

A 3rd RG would be well deserved.

 

[DSH]

It's sad and (pathetic at the same time) that a 20 year old can't perform at a high level in a match as a whole and is physically outmatched by someone who is 16 years older than him.

 

[Sampras-Bruguera 1993]

It's sad and (pathetic at the same time) that a 20 year old can't perform at a high level in a match as a whole and is physically outmatched by someone who is 16 years older than him.

Yea and the "tension" thing really gets me. I could see if it was his first deep run at a slam but he won the Open last year with a lot of close matches. That "nervousness" crap should be gone by now

 

[insideoutforehands]

Worst crowd ever. It reminds me of the time when I stayed at a quiet resort in a forest and all of the sudden a group of French backpackers came and then they were yelling and singing all night long, violating the guest rules. They were kicked out of the resort that same night. French Open officials should kick out those obnoxious crowd.

If any crowds that root against Djokovic when he plays were kicked out, there would literally be no fans for any match he plays outside of Serbia.

 

[rh310]

Djokovic knows the time-tested rule: you fight a boxer, and box a fighter. Alcaraz got an important lesson today. He is a fantastically gifted fighter, but to fulfill his potential he’s going to have to learn to outsmart maybe the best boxer ever to play the game. And the boxers of his own generation (e.g., Rune).

 

[Benf15harp]

Can someone post a picture of a tiny mug?

 

[socallefty]

Djokovic knows the time-tested rule: you fight a boxer, and box a fighter. Alcaraz got an important lesson today. He is a fantastically gifted fighter, but to fulfill his potential he’s going to have to learn to outsmart maybe the best boxer ever to play the game. And the boxers of his own generation (e.g., Rune).

Djokovic fought power with power hitting 81 mph average FHs and high % first serves. Seemed like the equivalent of two punchers brawling.

 

[Rozroz]

absolutely disgusting behavior by novak in this final. No wonder eveyrone hates him. and this is why he will never be loved as one of the greates

what did he do wrong this time? seemed pretty ok.
he was pretty much resereved after the injury..

 

[Milanez82]

absolutely disgusting behavior by novak in this final. No wonder eveyrone hates him. and this is why he will never be loved as one of the greates

Alcaraz in that link says he would do exactly the same

Tnx for sharing

 

[Nostradamus]

Alcaraz in that link says he would do exactly the same

Tnx for sharing

Carlos had to say that, he is just trying to be a good sportsman

 

[socallefty]

Watching an injured or cramping player extend a match is like watching a car accident in slow motion. Djokovic did us tennis fans a favor by keeping his intensity high and handing out a couple of breadsticks quickly to stop the agonizing dance.