Rozroz
G.O.A.T.
still he would have done exactly the same
2023 Roland Garros SF: [1] Carlos Alcaraz vs. [3] Novak Djokovic
- Thread starter UnforcedTerror
- Start date
Walrus Gumball
Rookie
Does anyone else wonder if Carlos is taking something that caused this? I have never seen a player get debilitating full body cramps after 2 sets of tennis. That’s in 50 years of watching tennis.
Walrus Gumball
Rookie
It’s weird. I think he’s on something.
McGradey
Hall of Fame
I did note during the rallies that Djokovic’s technique on groundstrokes seems just so solid and reliable. Unbreakable. He would really lean into his shots to add power without needing the crazy racquet head speed that Alcaraz goes for on his forehand — which seems more volatile and prone to breaking down in extended rallies.
In some sense it was a victory for the old methods as well as the older player.
In some sense it was a victory for the old methods as well as the older player.
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
Yesterday's match the movie version.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
My guess would be diuretics to flush banned substances out of his system quicker before drug tests.Is he taking diuretics to mask the use of other banned substances? Why cramp twice in two different tough matches within 3 months after two sets when he is a fit 20-year old.
6 Medications That Cause Leg Cramps
May 09, 2024 - If you’re worried about medications that cause leg cramps, this article focuses on six common medication-related causes.www.bassmedicalgroup.com
What does Dr. Cotorro have to say?
Walrus Gumball
Rookie
Except Carlos was done after 2 sets, didn’t get a chance to get worn out. I don’t think Novak had much to do with this particular incident. It’s something going on with Carlos’ body.
Walrus Gumball
Rookie
I agree. The problem is something going on inside Carlos’ body that made him full body cramp. He was not fatigued. I suspect he is taking something that caused it. Legal/illegal I don’t know.It's amusing hearing commentators say that Djokovic caused the cramps. As if this is fantasy game where you can cast a "induce cramps" power
Don't get me wrong Djokovic was doing a great job moving Alcaraz around, but Alcaraz has played 5 setters like that before.
joekapa
Legend
Well when you cramp, it comes from a lack of conditioning.....no ?
Carlos thought he would dig himself out of it with shot wizardry.
His "super coach" Ferrero, has a lot to answer for here imho.
joekapa
Legend
The man has turned this sport to a science.
Halba
Hall of Fame
Note Alcaraz has a tinier frame at only 5'10.5. that is small for a tennis athlete in modern standards. Djokovic is 6'2, taller and fitter than federer, and has an even more relaxed playing style.
AM75
Hall of Fame
I had it once during a tennis match on an extremely hot day, hands, legs and finally everything cramped, it wad a terrifying experience, Carlitos wasn‘t near that, because at sone point you just fall on a ground and wail. And I‘m a man in his late 40s not particularly in a good physical condition. On the other hand, I was told it‘s not only nutrition and conditions that causes that, it‘s also mental. I‘m as sure the whole hype and Ferrero‘s expectations played their role too.
AM75
Hall of Fame
Boxers of his generation they all are cramping big time…
Genious at Work
G.O.A.T.
STFU, man. Always going on about Alcaraz's supposed doping. You are Italian. Enough said.
Italian athletes responsible for most anti-doping rule violations
Italian athletes were responsible for comfortably the most confirmed anti-doping rule violations in 2017, according to new statistics made public by t...
www.insidethegames.biz
Italians top WADA’s Prohibited Association List - Sports Integrity Initiative
One hundred and sixty one people from 30 countries feature on the latest version of the Prohibited Association List, published by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) on 10 April. The List, which is updated on 10 January, 10 April, 10 July and 10 October each year, features the names of Athlete...
www.sportsintegrityinitiative.com
Genious at Work
G.O.A.T.
You have to admire Djokovic's abilities regardless of how robotic he is, especially at his age. It is still sad for someone who likes imaginative and attacking tennis to see the more talented player fall.
hoodjem
G.O.A.T.
Cramporaz ->advantage Djoker. Match over.
Benf15harp
Hall of Fame
Wasn’t cramping
KK Partizan
Rookie
The Novak Derangement Syndrome is a sight to see. Right up there with Trump Derangement Syndrome!
2 GOATs hated by small minded individuals who, angry at their own life failures, attempt to tear down high achieving alpha males.
STAY MAD.
Djoker would have won with or without the typical PED induced injuries all the Spaniards seem to have.
2 GOATs hated by small minded individuals who, angry at their own life failures, attempt to tear down high achieving alpha males.
STAY MAD.
Djoker would have won with or without the typical PED induced injuries all the Spaniards seem to have.
Holmes
Hall of Fame
I know 06 was a while ago but you were definitely around and watching when it struck.
insideoutforehands
Semi-Pro
A Djokovic fan talking about any others PEDs.
This is on par with the Djokovic fan talking about other players faking injuries. And funniest of all Federer's "weak competition". Classic.Walrus Gumball
Rookie
Cramp in the arm?
joekapa
Legend
And leg...
SonicNirvana
Hall of Fame
Yep always projection from dopes like him.STFU, man. Always going on about Alcaraz's supposed doping. You are Italian. Enough said.
Italian athletes responsible for most anti-doping rule violations
Italian athletes were responsible for comfortably the most confirmed anti-doping rule violations in 2017, according to new statistics made public by t...
Italians top WADA’s Prohibited Association List - Sports Integrity Initiative
One hundred and sixty one people from 30 countries feature on the latest version of the Prohibited Association List, published by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) on 10 April. The List, which is updated on 10 January, 10 April, 10 July and 10 October each year, features the names of Athlete...
gqnelly
Rookie
Says the player that celebrates every point like he won Wimbledon, fist pumps, grunts at the loudest volumes and yells VAMOS at the top of his lungs. This is the most absurd argument I have ever heard. Nobody celebrates more than Carlos. Its the main reason I cant stand watching him...most players wait for a big moment (like Novak). He does it on every point...
gqnelly
Rookie
"Everyone hates him". Its fun watching his success make you so uncomfortable. You see tennis as a popularity contest. "And the award for the most elegant is...." Last time I checked, the classiest player doesnt get any extra points for their Emily Post perfect posture and matching Laura Ashley outfit. The most popular player doesnt get to hit against a lower net or without any sun in their eyes. The better player is decided on the court. Anything else is just white noise. It is also fodder for those that can not accept the results on the court. The only way for some to try and win is to tear down the accomplishments of others with words in an attempt to change the narrative. "Oh, it doesnt matter if he wins 100 Slams...he is still a jerk". Sadly for you, its the other way around.
robyrolfo
Hall of Fame
Sorry guys, I don't post on weekends. Just wanted to quote myself here, in case anyone forgot...
canta_Brian
Hall of Fame
Have you ever seen him live?
ROFL at the statement above. Watching Djokovic playing tennis should be a privilege for tennis fans. His athletic ability is one of the best I've ever seen. His ability to turn defence to offence is truly remarkable. His mental strength is out of this world.
Before venting your frustrations out irrationally and before you call him a d*per or some sh*t, please watch the video. Alcaraz isn't complaining. The player has said nothing.
robyrolfo
Hall of Fame
Ok, back to discuss this some more, as this match was clearly the story of the French Open, and there are many discussion points coming out of it. I tried to get through the 70 something pages, and here are some talking points...
And look, I 100% understand that you have to keep playing hard when your opponent is injured, and can't cut them any slack. That's fine. And if he wanted to drop-shot Alcaraz all day, that would have been fine too. But why the ridiculous and exaggerated celebrations? You honestly meant to tell me that the supposed greatest player of all time can't beat a severely injured opponent without "pumping himself up" like that? That's a total joke. And there are ways of pumping yourself up without all the obnoxious yelling. Plenty of players on tour do it. Novak just can't help himself... more on that in a bit.
I'll also add that beating an injured opponent provides little to no satisfaction to a true competitor that has some perspective and his head on straight.
Thing is, while I think he should sometimes take it down a notch, that is part of what makes Alcaraz Alcaraz. Without all those crazy gets, is he the same player? Is he this good? So maybe his only chance against the stiffer competition is to get out to a big lead early on, before he starts to run out of steam.
And let's not forget that Novak was absolutely on the limit as well (and he admitted as much). Alcaraz grabbed that second set from him because he started getting tired and making more mistakes. Novak dug himself out of 0-40 somehow, but then dropped his next service game pretty lamely. He was super tired, and he couldn't have maintained that pace for another 3 sets either. He was just lucky that Alcaraz broke down first.
Most people have forgotten about this, but it's a very good point. I don't love Alcaraz, but his sportsmanship in that moment was impressive. He could easily have said it was a different type of injury, because we know they have no way of verifying (hence all the fake MTO's we see in the sport, including the one from Novak in this same match). That was good of Alcaraz, and there is no way we could have expected the same from his opponent, or half the guys and gals on the tour.
Lots of talk about Novak's celebrating once Alcaraz was cramping, and I'm definitely in the camp that thought it was ridiculous. I did see that interview where Alcaraz said it was OK, but I can't help but think he is just trying to be a good sport and not complaining after losing a match.
And look, I 100% understand that you have to keep playing hard when your opponent is injured, and can't cut them any slack. That's fine. And if he wanted to drop-shot Alcaraz all day, that would have been fine too. But why the ridiculous and exaggerated celebrations? You honestly meant to tell me that the supposed greatest player of all time can't beat a severely injured opponent without "pumping himself up" like that? That's a total joke. And there are ways of pumping yourself up without all the obnoxious yelling. Plenty of players on tour do it. Novak just can't help himself... more on that in a bit.
Well, I have played sports in my life, and at a pretty high level (not tennis, but other sports). And let me tell you, there are ways of winning where you can play your heart out and still be a good winner. You can still win with class.
I'll also add that beating an injured opponent provides little to no satisfaction to a true competitor that has some perspective and his head on straight.
Every time I think that the Federer nuts are pretty annoying, and the Nadal freaks even more annoying... they get completely blown away by the Djokovic fans. It's like he is a magnet for the absolute worst, and most insecure, people.
That's fine. But you can do it quietly, and with class.
Comparing athletes from different sports is pretty much impossible. Especially an individual athlete like a tennis player, whereas many other great athletes play team sports. So this statement is pretty ridiculous.
Are you even a tennis fan? The only match worth watching for 6 months? So the entire AO was a waste of time? That Sinner v Alcaraz semi-final in Miami wasn't worth watching?
THIS! Lot's of people commenting on his fitness, which is certainly worth discussing, but what about his style of play? Maybe he shouldn't be killing himself to chase down 4 shots in a row at 40-15 or 0-40?
Thing is, while I think he should sometimes take it down a notch, that is part of what makes Alcaraz Alcaraz. Without all those crazy gets, is he the same player? Is he this good? So maybe his only chance against the stiffer competition is to get out to a big lead early on, before he starts to run out of steam.
Well, Novak was running less. And yes, that is because he was playing the points better, or smarter, but the fact is that Alcaraz was doing more running/work than Djokovic. People keep making comments about a 20 year old vs a 36 year old, as if they were competing in a perfectly equal event. It's not. There are more efficient ways to play tennis, and more energy consuming ways. So it's not apples to apples.
And let's not forget that Novak was absolutely on the limit as well (and he admitted as much). Alcaraz grabbed that second set from him because he started getting tired and making more mistakes. Novak dug himself out of 0-40 somehow, but then dropped his next service game pretty lamely. He was super tired, and he couldn't have maintained that pace for another 3 sets either. He was just lucky that Alcaraz broke down first.
Huh? If anything I would think both Alcaraz and Djokovic can be suspected of it. Novak's performances and behavior are just too abnormal for it not to be suspected. And then when you consider his personality, he is absolutely the type of person that would dope without hesitation. If you know anything about Lance Armstrong, you can see the obvious similarities there. (And while pretty much everyone in cycling was doping when Lance doped, he has been the most open about it and we have a window into his mentality at the time. Sooooo many similarities to Novak).
Haaaaa, what? Can you even formulate an argument? If Italians are known for doping, couldn't/wouldn't that imply that an Italian would be well placed to recognize it? Try using some logic before you attempt to insult someone (or an entire nation).
Wow, I'm not even sure how to respond to a post like this. Reading through most of these threads, some comments seemed so ridiculous that I was sure they were sarcastic, and then I realized that some of them might not have been sarcastic at all... which is a little worrying.
Fabresque
Legend
You know I actually thought about not responding just because this post is so stupid and ridiculous, but because of how idiotic it is I just have to address it.
You decided to take precious time out of your day to sit on a tennis forum and write paragraph after paragraph responding to posters that basically tell them they’re wrong and you’re right. Nice.
You decided to cherry pick the unsavory posts by the Djokovic fanbase (which I agree are distasteful), while ignoring the similarly disgusting posts we saw on here by Fedal fans. And before you respond, no, I’m not going back through near a hundred pages to find these posts. Unlike you, I have a life.
You also accuse Novak of doping and being a poor sport in this post. Even though there’s zero evidence of him doping, not to mention Alcaraz completely shutting down any notion that Novak was a poor sport.
Your poor attempt to hide your hatred for Novak by writing out an uneducated essay is too easy to sniff out.
It’s ok to cry and it’s ok to be upset, but I’d rather you just come out and say “I hate Djokovic blah blah” than write something like this out. Just makes it seem really embarrassing fella.
Should Alcaraz have quit the match? If anything first, he showed respect to Djokovic by finishing the match. next, he said he didn't quit because he had a 1% chance to win even though he knew he most likely wouldn't. That's what professionals do.
That's a good point. However Carlos backhand is pretty compact and a more consistent shot than his forehand though he can hit tons of winners off that wing too. He can take the ball early and hit it down the line on the forehand wing but didn't try to or wasn't able to consistently in set 1 anyway. Novak won the FH cross court exchanges for the most part.
He needs to try pickle juice. It works quite well. But that's only one part of it.
SonicNirvana
Hall of Fame
Yeah it wasn’t directed at you
robyrolfo
Hall of Fame
Wow, this is your attempt at insulting me? A post that appears to be written by a child (you know that not every sentence needs to be a new paragraph, right?), with little or no substance to it? Would you care to address what I actually wrote to you? (In case you forgot, you made a laughable accusation that people criticizing Djokovic never played sports in their lives, and I pointed out that many of us indeed have, and still have an issue with his antics).
Then you proceed to go on and on about how I don't have a life, since I dared take the time to read about and comment on the most significant match of this year, all the while devoting plenty of your own time and attention to remarks that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. And nobody is crying or upset. I'm not a Alcaraz fan, or a Ruud fan, or a Federer fan, or a Nadal fan... But I am going to point out a player that I see doing unsportsmanlike things, just like I would call out a football/soccer player for diving or faking injury to waste time.
Lastly, you complain that I'm ignoring distasteful posts by "Fedal fans," and yet this is a thread about a Djokovic match. There is plenty here (70 something pages) to comment on without bringing them into this. Plus, as I stated, while fans of those two can be annoying at times, nobody gets anywhere close to the level of the ridiculous and deluded Djokovic fanbase. Just look at the last comment I responded to for proof.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
I say if Alcarez had this in his bag, he would have won French open this year, and it only costs like $10
TheWizardFromElPalmar
Rookie
I still dont get why he wanted to play the last two sets I mean he could'nt move at all. To me it was more an injury than cramps, he could hardly move, and anyway if it was cramps why would u say it was cramps? sounds dumb to me.
Genious at Work
G.O.A.T.
You are either too smart and a millionaire who can afford to spend several hours replying to multiple posters with childish retorts completely devoid of logic and value, or just a dullard with too much time in his hands. I wonder which is it.
Bunghole is Italian. Bunghole.keeps referring to Spaniards and Alcaraz as dopers. Italy in recent years accounts for many more doping violations proportionally (according to WADA) than any other country, in particular Spain (which is.one of the countries with fewer violations recently. You make no sense. All these are true statements. Can you form a cogent argument with them?
Julius Caesar
Professional
This is embarrassing
Julius Caesar
Professional
Wrong thread
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