2023 Roland Garros - Women's Singles

WWW FO 2023?

  • Iga Natalia Świątek

    Votes: 12 44.4%
  • Aryna Siarhiejeŭna Sabalenka

    Votes: 3 11.1%
  • Elena Andreyevna Rybakina

    Votes: 10 37.0%
  • Ons Jabeur

    Votes: 1 3.7%
  • Barbora Krejčíková

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Paula Badosa Gibert

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Jeļena Ostapenko

    Votes: 1 3.7%
  • Maria Sakkari

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Qinwen Zheng

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Others, specify who on the thread for bragging right

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .

robyrolfo

Hall of Fame
I think "women's matches are not worth it" is just a presupposition for many people. No matter how much they're disproven, it will never change their minds.
I'm not sure where everyone is from in here (I suspect it's a few different places), but I think some Americans and Brits might be surprised at how different the attitude towards women's sports is in some parts of the world, including Western Europe. For whatever reason, and right or wrong, it just doesn't have the same appeal or relevance for many people.

Take women's soccer/football for example. It's quite popular in the US compared to the men's game, pretty much on par for the national team, and yet in Europe, where they love the sport, it is pretty much ignored. (That American women's soccer players don't seem to care that their European counterparts are being paid peanuts for the "same work" is another story).
Don't project your beliefs onto everyone else. That's not how it works, otherwise, no one would watch college basketball or college football, which is significantly inferior prowess-wise to pro basketball and pro football.
First off, the gap isn't as large. The US Women's national soccer team lost to some 14 year old boys team from just one club (so not the best in the nation).

But the real issue with that analogy is the college aspect. College sports is fueled by built in fanbases (students) and rivalries. That is why college sports do better than minor league professional sports. Those minor league pros are playing at a higher level, but nobody cares about some random team from Pawtucket, Rhode Island.

This is the only hope that Women's soccer/football has to move forward in Europe. Clubs that are feeding off of the fanbase and rivalries from their men's teams. And I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that. Also, the WNBA pretty much tried the same thing, and that hasn't worked, so it's not a guarantee.

Anyway, all of this to say that Women's Tennis is the biggest success story in the world for Women's sport. Sure, it could still get better, but let's not make it out to be all terrible.

I don't find the cries of BHM that bad through the TV screen. It's the constant facial expressions towards the box that start to get on my nerves. For all that, she played a great tournament and should be congratulated for not capitulating today after 500 hours on court.
I can't stand any of these players (men or women) that interact so much with their player boxes, especially those like Murray, Shappo, Djoko and Kygrios that are often screaming at their boxes when things aren't going well.
 

ScottleeSV

Hall of Fame
It's not an opinion. It is based on actual facts and figures.
As I said I will watch women's tennis for FREE at home. I would not pay hundreds or thousands to watch it in person.

UTR
Swiatek 13.28
Sabalenka 13.23

Arthur Fery (Stanford) 14.16
Patrick Zahraj (UCLA) 13.10

It appears that the elite WTA players are at around mid to top men's D1 players.
I could go watch UCLA/USC/Stanford for free. I wouldn't pay hundreds or thousands to watch them. Same goes for WTA.

You remind me of those people who will happily watch Barcelona on the TV but won't pay to go and support their local hometown team. Absolutely fine for you to do that of course, just makes me a little sad on the inside.

Quite frankly though, if you say you wouldn't have paid to watch those incredible semi finals today, I would surmise that women's tennis simply isn't for you.

My local tournament is the ITF in Ilkley and I would happily pay the same prices as RG to watch matches there involving players who can usually only dream of bending it like Swiatek.
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Well i'm glad I went to bed, don't think I could've handled seeing Sabalenka have match point and then lose the match.

Wow. Big congrats to Muchova but.
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
5th time in 7 years we have an unseeded French Open finalist.

2017: Ostapenko (wins the title)
2019: Vondrousova
2020: Swiatek (wins the title)
2021: Krejcikova (wins the title)
2023: Muchova (??)
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Sabalenka got super close to that #1 ranking but just misses out.

Grass court season now. Swiatek with no points to defend as she played no grass tournaments before Wimbledon and that offered no points last year.

Sabalenka made the Rosmalen final which was her only real grass result.

So both players with points to add. They are around 3,000 points clear of #3 Rybakina and #4 Garcia.
 
Muchova and Sabalenka have brought the tournament to life with their play in the SF.
Man... I just watched the end again, as I was out while it was happening and couldn't really follow well. Truly one of the most ridiculous collapses of all times. From 5-2 30-0, Sabalenka literally made one terrible UE after another, must have been at least 15 of them... She actually found a tiny bit of her game on 5-5 to go up 40-15, and then two double faults to unravel once again, this time for good, as she would not win another point for the rest of the match. Muchova basically just hung in there, hit a couple of good serves, admirably fought off some cramps, but didn't really do anything exceptional. The first part of the match was indeed great, but the last five games were one of the most disconcerting shtshows you will ever see.
 

Subway Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Man... I just watched the end again, as I was out while it was happening and couldn't really follow well. Truly one of the most ridiculous collapses of all times. From 5-2 30-0, Sabalenka literally made one terrible UE after another, must have been at least 15 of them... She actually found a tiny bit of her game on 5-5 to go up 40-15, and then two double faults to unravel once again, this time for good, as she would not win another point for the rest of the match. Muchova basically just hung in there, hit a couple of good serves, admirably fought off some cramps, but didn't really do anything exceptional. The first part of the match was indeed great, but the last five games were one of the most disconcerting shtshows you will ever see.
Instead of being Madridalenka of 2023, it was Madridalenka of the yips era :happydevil:

Gotta hand it to Muchova. She plays a very brave, high risk form of tennis, and she reeled Sabalenka in.

There wasn’t much of a sign of what might come from Sabalenka in that incredible first set. The only hint was that she sprayed two wild forehands in short succession in the first set breaker.
 

tennis4me

Hall of Fame
I just watched highlights of Muchova vs. Sabalenka.
Wow! I missed a really great match. Can't recall watching Muchova's match before, maybe just short clips. Great variations with BH slice both as neutralizing shots and defense. She has drop shots too!

Hoping for a great Sat Final.
 

BenC

Hall of Fame
Wasn't love at first sight but this shot helped (v Avanesyan in R4)

muchova.gif
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Also, in the Ladies Doubles we are guarenteed at least one first time champion.

Of the 8 ladies in the SF's only one has won a slam before and that's our favourite Hsieh Su-Wei.

The SF lineup is:
(6) Melichar-Martinez/Perez v (PR) Hsieh/Xin Wang
(10) Fernandez/Townsend v (2) Gauff/Pegula
 

zvelf

Hall of Fame
Your argument was flawed.
Your inability to describe the flaw, only to merely assert that there is one, demonstrates that my argument is perfectly valid.
First off, the gap isn't as large. The US Women's national soccer team lost to some 14 year old boys team from just one club (so not the best in the nation).

But the real issue with that analogy is the college aspect. College sports is fueled by built in fanbases (students) and rivalries. That is why college sports do better than minor league professional sports. Those minor league pros are playing at a higher level, but nobody cares about some random team from Pawtucket, Rhode Island.
The gap in basketball is huge. A college team that wins the NCAA championships would get trounced by the worst NBA team from the same year. Such a championship team might have one or two players that can actually have a successful career in the NBA, but they would still be inexperienced rookies playing a team of veterans. Anyway, we're not talking about the difference in level in women's soccer, but women's tennis, and top pro women's tennis players are better than random male college tennis players.

Also, if college sports only generated interest from states where those schools are located, then there would not be anywhere close to the level of interest and money involved. People all over the U.S. watch March Madness tournament games even if they have no association with the schools involved. All of those schools would be demolished by NBA teams.
 

Subway Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Also, in the Ladies Doubles we are guarenteed at least one first time champion.

Of the 8 ladies in the SF's only one has won a slam before and that's our favourite Hsieh Su-Wei.

The SF lineup is:
(6) Melichar-Martinez/Perez v (PR) Hsieh/Xin Wang
(10) Fernandez/Townsend v (2) Gauff/Pegula
Who’s your tip for Fernandez/Townsend v Gauff/Pegz?
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Who’s your tip for Fernandez/Townsend v Gauff/Pegz?
Can't say i've seen either teams matches this tournament so this is just off my knowledge and opinion.

Townsend is a great doubles player, no matter who she partners with. But I think the experience of Gauff/Pegula will prevail.

The two teams battled it out in the Miami final back in March with the American duo winning 7-6 6-2.

Looking at the teams they beat, Gauff/Pegula have had it tougher.

Their 1R was against Siegemund/Zvonareva, that duo won the 2020 USO title together, no mean feat. Jpeg/Gauff won easily 6-2 6-2.
2R was Azarenka/Haddad Maia. Those 2 actually won Madrid just a few weeks ago and easily beat Jpeg/Gauff in the final. But, the Americans easily won this match 6-3 6-1.
3R against #13 Kostyuk/Ruse. The Americans lost the first set but went on to win in 3.
QF against unseeded Bondar/Minnen, Straight sets.

Fernandez/Townsend:
1R against Errani/Mattek Sands. BMS is a beast in doubles but partnering with Errani was dumb. Straight sets win.
2R was super easy against a duo called Neel/Whu. Straight sets.
3R against #8 seeds Dabrowski/Stefani. Tough 3 set win.
QF against #14 Chan sisters. 6-3 6-3 win.

Gauff obviously has spent more time on court making it to the QF's in singles only bowing out a few nights ago while JPeg lost 3R, Fernandez 2R and Townsend 1R as a qualifier.

Gauff/Pegula played Townsend in the SF at the French last year when Taylor partnered with Keys in an all American battle. Coco/Jessie won in straight sets. So they know how to defeat Taylor at RG in a SF who is the better player out of herself and Fernandez in terms of doubles accomplishments.
 
D

Deleted member 798069

Guest
Swiatek is not talented enough. Right...
Why hasn't Swiatek ever added variety to her game? Is she just not talented enough, or she hasn't even tried?
Well she's clearly nowhere near as talented as Barty. And I'm not just saying that because Barty won both their meetings in straight sets (Madrid 2021 and Adelaide 2022).
The variety is just not there with Swiatek.... Plus she misses her shots by big margins, whereas Barty and Rybakina miss shots by smaller margins.
Swiatek seems to be more reliant on work ethic than natural ability.
 

ScottleeSV

Hall of Fame
Well she's clearly nowhere near as talented as Barty. And I'm not just saying that because Barty won both their meetings in straight sets (Madrid 2021 and Adelaide 2022).
The variety is just not there with Swiatek.... Plus she misses her shots by big margins, whereas Barty and Rybakina miss shots by smaller margins.
Swiatek seems to be more reliant on work ethic than natural ability.

Federer would often shank an easy rally ball into the clouds, but either side of that he might play two rallies from the gods. As long as you're winning it's completely irrelevant how big your misses are.

Barty was a great player but she checked out. She left. Before that, her 3 slam final wins were against Vondrousova, Pliskova, and some college girl with a gum shield whose name escapes me.

If she ever beat Serena, I don't remember it (possibly she did). We'll never know how she would have fared in this newfound era of Swiatek, Sabalenka, and Rybakina.

By the end of Swiatek's career it's likely she will have left a monumentally larger legacy than Barty. If she achieves that, she will have earned it. You don't just get there on 'work ethic'. Heather Watson works her socks off. She's no 182.
 

tennis4me

Hall of Fame
o_O #2 seed Gauff/Pegula received a 1st set bagel from Fernandez/Townsend.

... and they're through to the Final. 6-0, 6-4. Lots of very good points played by the four, but Fernandez/Townsend just really outplayed them today. At times you see rallies resembling singles with very deep, long rallies, but with the varieties of doubles game with mixed in dipper, offensive lobs.
 
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AM75

Hall of Fame
Federer would often shank an easy rally ball into the clouds, but either side of that he might play two rallies from the gods. As long as you're winning it's completely irrelevant how big your misses are.

Barty was a great player but she checked out. She left. Before that, her 3 slam final wins were against Vondrousova, Pliskova, and some college girl with a gum shield whose name escapes me.

If she ever beat Serena, I don't remember it (possibly she did). We'll never know how she would have fared in this newfound era of Swiatek, Sabalenka, and Rybakina.

By the end of Swiatek's career it's likely she will have left a monumentally larger legacy than Barty. If she achieves that, she will have earned it. You don't just get there on 'work ethic'. Heather Watson works her socks off. She's no 182.
Barthy won on 3 different surfaces, Iga only on two. She may never win on grass. On the other hand who thought that Halep can destroy Serena in Wimby?
 

ScottleeSV

Hall of Fame
Barthy won on 3 different surfaces, Iga only on two. She may never win on grass. On the other hand who thought that Halep can destroy Serena in Wimby?
I would expect Swiatek to grow to something like Halep's level of comfort on grass, whether she ever wins Wimbledon or not. That performance against Serena by Halep was one of the greatest ever. Didn't really see it coming from Halep on grass.
 

JJGUY

Hall of Fame
By the end of Swiatek's career it's likely she will have left a monumentally larger legacy than Barty. If she achieves that, she will have earned it. You don't just get there on 'work ethic'. Heather Watson works her socks off. She's no 182.

I don't think there is much legacy to begin with for Barty, she had 3 slams but her tennis is uninspiring, probably that explains why she is forgotten already, people don't miss her tennis.
 

robyrolfo

Hall of Fame
You remind me of those people who will happily watch Barcelona on the TV but won't pay to go and support their local hometown team. Absolutely fine for you to do that of course, just makes me a little sad on the inside.
I think a lot depends on the viewer's experience and/or level with that sport. Soccer/football is my sport, and lower level games are hard to watch sometimes because I can't ignore how mediocre and uninspiring the play often is.

But yes, a lot of fans that don't really know that much about the sport are needlessly snobby about only watching big name teams. And unless you are from Barcelona or that part of Spain, it's just lame to be a Barca fan. Why pick easy mode?
Well i'm glad I went to bed, don't think I could've handled seeing Sabalenka have match point and then lose the match.
Imagine being a Sinner fan and watching him lose match point on a funky net chord, and then get tortured as he played for another hour plus before losing the match.

The gap in basketball is huge. A college team that wins the NCAA championships would get trounced by the worst NBA team from the same year. Such a championship team might have one or two players that can actually have a successful career in the NBA, but they would still be inexperienced rookies playing a team of veterans. Anyway, we're not talking about the difference in level in women's soccer, but women's tennis, and top pro women's tennis players are better than random male college tennis players.

Also, if college sports only generated interest from states where those schools are located, then there would not be anywhere close to the level of interest and money involved. People all over the U.S. watch March Madness tournament games even if they have no association with the schools involved. All of those schools would be demolished by NBA teams.
An NCAA mens team would lose to an NBA team, OK, but the gap wouldn't be enormous. It wouldn't be ridiculously one sided. How young would you have to go with a WNBA team vs a men's team in order to get a competitive game? High School? Jr. High or JV? So where are you going with this? Yes, the gap in tennis is probably smaller between men and women, and that's probably why Women's tennis is the most successful women's sport on the planet, but there is still a gap.

And you failed to understand my point about college sports. They play at a lower level than second tier or minor league pro sports, but their leagues are popular and generate a lot of money because of the unique structure of the college system. Games always have huge crowds full of rowdy fans, because all of the big schools have a guaranteed base of drunk students to show up for every home game. So the atmosphere is always there, and then you have established rivalries fueled by those same students, plus alumni scattered around the country, plus people that became fans of a school thanks to rivalries and national TV attention. Point is, college sports aren't so successful because of the high level of play (you yourself derided it in your last comment), but because of other factors that are completely unique. There is nothing like American college sports anywhere else in the world. There is no other sport or league in the world, that I am aware of, that generates so much interest and revenue on an amateur level.

I don't think there is much legacy to begin with for Barty, she had 3 slams but her tennis is uninspiring, probably that explains why she is forgotten already, people don't miss her tennis.
Barty was uninspiring as a personality, but her actual tennis was nice to watch, and way more interesting that most of the bashers. I like Rybakina, for example, but her tennis is actually pretty boring.

As for Swiatek, she certainly seems to have a more powerful and dangerous forehand than Barty, but the rest of her game doesn't seem as complete. Barty certainly had the better slice backhand, and Barty probably served better. Someone mentioned Barty never playing Serena in a big spot, but Barty would have schooled over 35 Serena by simply running her into the ground.
LFG Taylor. and LAF.

Gauff needs to ditch JPEG if she wanna win a slam in doubles. Krej/Siniakova might be really back at Wim and USO.
Woah, what? Jpeg is carrying that partnership. Gauff is the weaker link. It's more like Pegula and Towsend should get together and dominate the doubles scene.
 

volleyandfun

Hall of Fame
I don't think there is much legacy to begin with for Barty, she had 3 slams but her tennis is uninspiring, probably that explains why she is forgotten already, people don't miss her tennis.
Disagree on all fronts!
Ash was dominant in every aspect of this game.
When she played Iga in Adelaide she put on a clinic to prove why she is the #1
Plus, her humble personality and respectfulness won many fans, including myself.
So, to your contrary, many people miss her.
 

ScottleeSV

Hall of Fame
I miss seeing her too. A big four would be even better than a big three. It's a shame she's so disinterested in the sport. Along with Osaka that's two incredibly talented multi slam winners with no desire to play tennis past 25. A bit infuriating actually but it's their life.
 

zvelf

Hall of Fame
lulw yes it would
Totally agree. A college team would be completely physically mauled by an NBA team, typically bigger and much stronger matured athletes, and it would easily be a 50-point blowout or more if the NBA team kept trying after taking a big lead.

I miss seeing her too. A big four would be even better than a big three. It's a shame she's so disinterested in the sport. Along with Osaka that's two incredibly talented multi slam winners with no desire to play tennis past 25. A bit infuriating actually but it's their life.
Yeah, imagine a motivated Barty and Osaka playing against peak Swiatek, Sabalenka, and Rybakina. That would be exciting!

In yet another fairytale dubs story, SuWei is back in the finals!
Love it!
 
Disagree on all fronts!
Ash was dominant in every aspect of this game.
When she played Iga in Adelaide she put on a clinic to prove why she is the #1
Plus, her humble personality and respectfulness won many fans, including myself.
So, to your contrary, many people miss her.
Bartys all court game and the strong fh would have troubled Iga a lot more for sure. The current wta just plays to Iga's strengths by trying to outhit her from the baseline. Only sabalenka at times, and a clean ball striker like elina can do that.

Let's see if muchova can challenge Iga and at least make a match of it. She disrupted sabalenka by coming to the net.
 

insideguy

G.O.A.T.
I think a lot depends on the viewer's experience and/or level with that sport. Soccer/football is my sport, and lower level games are hard to watch sometimes because I can't ignore how mediocre and uninspiring the play often is.

But yes, a lot of fans that don't really know that much about the sport are needlessly snobby about only watching big name teams. And unless you are from Barcelona or that part of Spain, it's just lame to be a Barca fan. Why pick easy mode?

Imagine being a Sinner fan and watching him lose match point on a funky net chord, and then get tortured as he played for another hour plus before losing the match.


An NCAA mens team would lose to an NBA team, OK, but the gap wouldn't be enormous. It wouldn't be ridiculously one sided. How young would you have to go with a WNBA team vs a men's team in order to get a competitive game? High School? Jr. High or JV? So where are you going with this? Yes, the gap in tennis is probably smaller between men and women, and that's probably why Women's tennis is the most successful women's sport on the planet, but there is still a gap.

And you failed to understand my point about college sports. They play at a lower level than second tier or minor league pro sports, but their leagues are popular and generate a lot of money because of the unique structure of the college system. Games always have huge crowds full of rowdy fans, because all of the big schools have a guaranteed base of drunk students to show up for every home game. So the atmosphere is always there, and then you have established rivalries fueled by those same students, plus alumni scattered around the country, plus people that became fans of a school thanks to rivalries and national TV attention. Point is, college sports aren't so successful because of the high level of play (you yourself derided it in your last comment), but because of other factors that are completely unique. There is nothing like American college sports anywhere else in the world. There is no other sport or league in the world, that I am aware of, that generates so much interest and revenue on an amateur level.


Barty was uninspiring as a personality, but her actual tennis was nice to watch, and way more interesting that most of the bashers. I like Rybakina, for example, but her tennis is actually pretty boring.

As for Swiatek, she certainly seems to have a more powerful and dangerous forehand than Barty, but the rest of her game doesn't seem as complete. Barty certainly had the better slice backhand, and Barty probably served better. Someone mentioned Barty never playing Serena in a big spot, but Barty would have schooled over 35 Serena by simply running her into the ground.

Woah, what? Jpeg is carrying that partnership. Gauff is the weaker link. It's more like Pegula and Towsend should get together and dominate the doubles scene.
Dude WTF are you talking about. An NBA team would kill an NCAA team. You know nothing.
 
Barthy won on 3 different surfaces, Iga only on two. She may never win on grass. On the other hand who thought that Halep can destroy Serena in Wimby?
I tend to agree, although I wouldn't write off Swiatek of winning a Wimbledon so soon, particularly in the current wide open womens field.

Even if she doesn't though, if she wins 5 or more slams (which seems super likely at this moment), nobody will care that Barty won 3 different surface slams if Swiatek didn't, pretty much everyone will have Swiatek rated above at that point.
 
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