Olli Jokinen
Hall of Fame
No, he's clearly Austrian. But basically, language and ethnicity is not the same thing.
2023 US Open R16 - Jannik Sinner [6] (ITA) v/s Alexander 'Sascha' Zverev [12] (GER)
- Thread starter Rafa4LifeEver
- Start date
Tennfan123
Legend
Sinner is a disgrace!
Jack the Hack
Hall of Fame
I just want to acknowlege that I enjoyed this post. I was the one wearing the black Nikes.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Thankfully I didn’t bet this time! Lol
Zverev deserved the win. Was the better player. Sinner has a long way too go to get to the player he wants to be.
For political considerations, Bismark didn’t include Austria in the German empire despite the Austrians wanting to join in. Even the name of Austria, Österreich, the eastern state, means that its eastern part of Germany. Austrian is not an ethnicity. Austrians are Germans who live in Austria
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
Told you son, Z is a better player than Sinner, i am glad you didn't bet on him
Very well done to Zverev for prevailing in a well contested match. After his awful injury and related poor form subsequently, he seems to be playing well again. Good for him.
It must be disappointing for Sinner to come up short again, in a match that he might have won. I hope he'll remain focused and determined to make his mark - sometimes it takes time and patience.
I have refused to be drawn into the pettiness of those Sinner fans who routinely disparage other players- especially Alcaraz. i like Sinner's game and consider him to be a talented player. He should not be disrespected because of the shoddy attitude of some of his fans.
I do however hope that the misplaced superiority complex / unwarranted big ego's of his fan's will be humbled- your saying he is the next big thing since sliced bread won't make it so. Have the decency to wait until he actually achieves it.
It must be disappointing for Sinner to come up short again, in a match that he might have won. I hope he'll remain focused and determined to make his mark - sometimes it takes time and patience.
I have refused to be drawn into the pettiness of those Sinner fans who routinely disparage other players- especially Alcaraz. i like Sinner's game and consider him to be a talented player. He should not be disrespected because of the shoddy attitude of some of his fans.
I do however hope that the misplaced superiority complex / unwarranted big ego's of his fan's will be humbled- your saying he is the next big thing since sliced bread won't make it so. Have the decency to wait until he actually achieves it.
Interesting take on current evidence. The 'IT' quality - so elusive, yet when it manifests, readily recognisable. On current evidence, I agree- JS seems to lack that elusive quality.
However, if he is growing into his game, then there is no reason to suppose that he won't acquire that quality. All it takes is the confidence derived from some good results and the'IT'factor can take wing and fly.
I hope other of the yoingsters can find their wings.
Vamos Carlos Alcaraz
Semi-Pro
I have come to like Sinner more than I used to, except when he wins against Carlos! (; I like almost all the players on the tour, with only a few rare exceptions (and one big huge exception!) (; I simply have never believed that Sinner will become an all-time great - he might win a few Grand Slams but I don't consider Murray or Wawrinka as all-time greats and they have won 3 each.
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
For political considerations, Bismark didn’t include Austria in the German empire despite the Austrians wanting to join in. Even the name of Austria, Österreich, the eastern state, means that its eastern part of Germany. Austrian is not an ethnicity. Austrians are Germans who live in Austria
Many Germans and the Austrians will tell you differently now. See: Christopher Waltz
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
He says he's Italian and he was born in Italy, so he's Italian.
Winners or Errors
Legend
The Tyrol is in Italy.
South Tyrol is in Italy.
That is certainly true in that Austrians are very proud of their cultural uniqueness. But even inside Germany, Bavarians feel different than the rest of Germany and consider themselves a semi independent entity hence the federal system.
robyrolfo
Hall of Fame
Watched this entire match, and it was fascinating. Another super entertaining 5 set match for Sinner at the US Open, and unfortunately another where he comes out the loser.
I am a supporter of Sinner, and as frustrating as it has been to see some of these results, I still enjoy watching him. YES, he has some pretty big issues with his game that he needs to overcome, most notably his play in decisive points. But I do still believe that he can turn that part of his game around, as he is still quite young. Also, physically, I fairly certain he will continue to develop and get better in these longer/harder matches.
As for last night specifically, I just think Zverev is a bad matchup for him, especially given the conditions. Zverev seems to like hard fast shots coming his way, and Sinner fed right into that. It would be great if Sinner could have mixed it up more, but that's no really his game. And then with the heat, Zverev's big serve was really the difference maker. But Jannik will be back, stronger than ever.
(PS Even though Sinner gives Alcaraz trouble, I think Zverev will also give Alcaraz a really hard time, assuming he can get his energy back).
I am a supporter of Sinner, and as frustrating as it has been to see some of these results, I still enjoy watching him. YES, he has some pretty big issues with his game that he needs to overcome, most notably his play in decisive points. But I do still believe that he can turn that part of his game around, as he is still quite young. Also, physically, I fairly certain he will continue to develop and get better in these longer/harder matches.
As for last night specifically, I just think Zverev is a bad matchup for him, especially given the conditions. Zverev seems to like hard fast shots coming his way, and Sinner fed right into that. It would be great if Sinner could have mixed it up more, but that's no really his game. And then with the heat, Zverev's big serve was really the difference maker. But Jannik will be back, stronger than ever.
(PS Even though Sinner gives Alcaraz trouble, I think Zverev will also give Alcaraz a really hard time, assuming he can get his energy back).
On this little debate, you only have to watch Sinner's reaction to big mistakes to know that he is 100% Italian.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Dial down your expectations. To dare compare Sinner to Lendl is just insane. Ivan is one of the legends of the game, when he was 22 he'd already won 24 tournaments. Sinner is nowhere close to Lendl's ability and never will be.
optic yellow
Legend
I have not looked this up at all but my assumption was that he is fully bilingual.
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
I'm a former longtime resident of Italy here and also a German speaker (and of course Italian speaker).
People from Sinner's part of Italy are generally bilingual, with gaps and preferences in different areas. It will depend on what tracks they took in schooling (which in his case was irregular anyway) but most of his entertainment and sporting for example would have been done in Italian.
The idea that he's not 'Italian' is silly. I get the jokes (I make them in Italy too with my friends) but he is every bit as Italian as people from other parts of Italy, including parts where French (or something very similar) is also spoken habitually.
It's just the nature of a country like Italy, and people should relax with their racialist theories of European civilization.
optic yellow
Legend
Did you live in Sinner's part of Italy? Yeah I was not doubting he is culturally Italian of course.
Soul_Evisceration
Hall of Fame
He's been like this since Day One.
Now he's fuming/angry that he underachieved to his standards.
But his usual shtick will be brought back up again in the remaining Masters/WTF and Majors in 2024.
abmk
Bionic Poster
yeah, plus Lendl made his first slam final at 21 years of age taking Borg to 5 sets at RG - something Sinner can only dream off.
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
I lived in the real Italy
But more seriously, I've spent time in his home region on various occasions, have friends from there and also speak German myself so I do pay close attention to what goes on there.optic yellow
Legend
I don't think the Habsburgs were necessarily super enthralled with the idea of ceding their sovereignty and imperial majesty to the Prussians.For political considerations, Bismark didn’t include Austria in the German empire despite the Austrians wanting to join in. Even the name of Austria, Österreich, the eastern state, means that its eastern part of Germany. Austrian is not an ethnicity. Austrians are Germans who live in Austria
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
Lol, yep. There was a clip of him fussing at Piatti, and I remember thinking how could the Italians deny their own son?
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
Look, the best players of these two generations only have 20 tournaments -- Zverev and Medvedev. But there is a distinction between Med and Zed, no doubt.
In the contrary, they were the de facto leaders of the German Empire had they been included, which is one of the reasons they were kept out.
Olli Jokinen
Hall of Fame
Not according to Encyclopedia Britannica. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Austrian-peopleFor political considerations, Bismark didn’t include Austria in the German empire despite the Austrians wanting to join in. Even the name of Austria, Österreich, the eastern state, means that its eastern part of Germany. Austrian is not an ethnicity. Austrians are Germans who live in Austria
Olli Jokinen
Hall of Fame
Yes, I know. Everyone from Südtirol. I was merely stating that he was more Austrian than German. Something about ethnicity which is stupid anyway.
Olli Jokinen
Hall of Fame
I agree that he's Italian. My comment was about him being more Austrian than German.
Olli Jokinen
Hall of Fame
It's in Austria. Südtirol is in Italy.
Olli Jokinen
Hall of Fame
I agree. Ethnicity is basically a stupid subject.
This article basically says that Austrians are ethnically Bavarians, or in my point of view, Bavarians are Austrians. Anyhow, let’s say that the German speaking sphere is comprised of a multitude of micro cultures that are very protective and proud of their local heritage. Bavarians have a lot more in common with the Austrians than they have with the Germans of Hamburg or Berlin. It’s a vast territory after all.
Olli Jokinen
Hall of Fame
Yes, you can say that they are all of Germanic ethnicity or something. But that's not really working either – due to the vast territory. Same goes for Italy.
optic yellow
Legend
But the Prussian Army was predominant?
Winners or Errors
Legend
Picking nits…
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
Should Sinner fire this useless Darren Cahill ? he hasn't helped at all to make Sinner get better results .. in today's game ,, its all about results.... Results... Sinner not getting any
optic yellow
Legend
late as hell when it finished ?
Rattie
Legend
That’s about the only reason I can think of
sortof
Professional
Well, Sinner failed to raise his game with the occasion - again, and again. He seems to be kind of stuck or limited and is not finding a way to overcome this barrier. 54% first serves in is too low and is bound to make winning a 4th round slam match very difficult indeed. 67 UEs against the Zedrot - that´s actually plain bad. Prime Fedal probably hit that many UEs during an entire tournament but never in a single match. Then we have his apparent struggles with the physicality of the game. Sacking Cahill and eventually his entire coaching team is overdue.Should Sinner fire this useless Darren Cahill ? he hasn't helped at all to make Sinner get better results .. in today's game ,, its all about results.... Results... Sinner not getting any
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
he should hire Ivan Lendl
robyrolfo
Hall of Fame
If there has been some hype, surely this is whiplash in the other direction. Sinner was super close to beating Alcaraz last year at the US Open, and he the wins that match he probably wins the Open.
And this recent loss was hardly a "normal" match. It was ridiculously hot and humid, and the points being played were grueling. Sure, he could have tried a different tactic, but it wasn't a straightforward match.
67 UE's is indeed a lot, but how many total points were played, and in what conditions? There were a lot of Deuce games, and even by the end of the first set they were both really struggling with the heat. It makes sense that a lot of mistakes would come out in a match like that.
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abmk
Bionic Poster
I was talking about Lendl's level being good enough to take Borg to 5 sets in that final. Not making slam final itself per se.
I didn't say anything of that sort anyways.
dking68
Legend
We are both fans of Sinner but yes he needs better conditioning. I think something is missing why he’s been unable to to take that next step
Olli Jokinen
Hall of Fame
No. Michigan isn't in Canada either.
Rattie
Legend
Now I find this which suggests there was a presser.
optic yellow
Legend
boring
Rattie
Legend
Fine. There’s no need to be rude.
Whatever
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
This is almost a parody post listing as many ridiculous excuses as you possibly can. Close only counts in hand grenades and darts.
How does it make any fan feel better if their guy was "super close" to beating someone? Rune was super close to beating Rublev at the AO this year (held MP's) and the MC final (he was a point away from being 5-2 in the third). Who cares? Rune lost both matches, end of story. The excuse machine with Sinner is off the charts. He lost last year to Alcaraz at the USO and lost to Zverev this year and the conditions are the same for both players, not just Chickenlegz. I'm surprised Sinner fans don't just arbitrarily announce him as the winner on Sunday even when Djokovic or Carlos lift the trophy.
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