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2023 Wimbledon Final: Carlos Alcaraz vs. Novak Djokovic
- Thread starter UnforcedTerror
- Start date
Hmmmm bold words let's just see what happens if and when they meet again, especially in a GS
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
That forehand! Djokovic was having a lot of trouble dealing with the power.
McGradey
Hall of Fame
I’ve seen quite a few comments saying Djokovic played poorly, and I can’t agree. Sure, he has had matches where he served better for longer and made fewer errors, but that is the nature of sport — you are very rarely at your best throughout an entire match, even if you are Djokovic.
Overall he played a very solid match that would’ve seen off anyone else in the draw, but he came up against someone playing at a higher level than he’d been exposed to prior to the final, and he wasn’t able to raise his own level enough to win. It happens.
Great final — seen it twice and enjoyed it both times.
Overall he played a very solid match that would’ve seen off anyone else in the draw, but he came up against someone playing at a higher level than he’d been exposed to prior to the final, and he wasn’t able to raise his own level enough to win. It happens.
Great final — seen it twice and enjoyed it both times.
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Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Up in Djoker's box during Wimbledon....Djoker's arrogant father and his equally smug obnoxious wife.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Put Casper or Jannik or anyone else in that final and Djokovic wipes his rear with all of them. Not happening with Alcaraz who simply just isn't scared of Djokovic at all like all these other bums and clowns.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
There are certain elements and nuances in Alcaraz's game which Djokovic hasn't dealt with before. Things that Federer and Nadal never did against him. Djokovic could read their games. Not so with Alcaraz.
Alcaraz is unique.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
I feel a lot of posters on here have never played a sport or have never been in tight situations with their back against the wall and under extreme stress and tension.
Alcaraz pushed Djokovic into a very uncomfortable space. Djokovic couldn't cope with the pressure because it's something he hasn't dealt with much these past several years outside of Nadal in Paris.
Definitely Djokovic hasn't dealt with it at Wimbledon.
Even against Federer in 2019, Djokovic never looked desperate or shaken.
Against Alcaraz, he looked nervous and tense. Like he knew this was something different he was dealing with.
Alcaraz didn't give a f*ck about Novak's 23 slams and his 10 year undefeated streak on center court and his 15 consecutive tiebreaks.
Djokovic being stuck on one game for 27 minutes trying to avoid going down a double break was brutally intense. Going to a 13th deuce is something he never dealt with against anyone else.
Alcaraz pushed Djokovic into a very uncomfortable space. Djokovic couldn't cope with the pressure because it's something he hasn't dealt with much these past several years outside of Nadal in Paris.
Definitely Djokovic hasn't dealt with it at Wimbledon.
Even against Federer in 2019, Djokovic never looked desperate or shaken.
Against Alcaraz, he looked nervous and tense. Like he knew this was something different he was dealing with.
Alcaraz didn't give a f*ck about Novak's 23 slams and his 10 year undefeated streak on center court and his 15 consecutive tiebreaks.
Djokovic being stuck on one game for 27 minutes trying to avoid going down a double break was brutally intense. Going to a 13th deuce is something he never dealt with against anyone else.
Rattie
Legend
Yeah, who has the nerve to serve for the championship, go down 0-15 due to a failed drop shot and then proceed to try another one immediately afterwards and deliver a perfect lob?
I still can’t get over that one!
Nadal - GOAT
Hall of Fame
Haha.. my exact thoughts when I saw that point live. I was thinking this guy is crazy. Especially the lob was a shocker. Caught Novak by surprise.
He infact played numerous drop shots perfectly on several pressure points. That shows composure which none of the other new gen have. He is a super entertaining player and hopefully only soars higher from here.
flyingboris
Legend
Nice. It shows what a nightmare it must be to play Djokovic. At the 15-15 point Carlos hits a serve deep and wide enough that Novak slips trying to recover. Carlos hits a decent (but high) forehand away from Novak, who somehow gets to it after the slip and promptly counters with an incredible cross-court that dips around Carlos' feet. Carlos needed to play an incredible volley to win the point, just seconds after Novak almost fell down. Amazing by both guys.
optic yellow
Legend
Alcaraz mugged less than Federer (see: serving out the match with zero fear). That is the primary difference.
Nah. Hits almost with the frame... mid court, no pace. A gift for any pro.
Rattie
Legend
His composure was probably what impressed me the most. Especially in the 5th set. Having broken so early on, he had to hold serve four times and could so easily have let Djokovic back into the set but he never flinched. Then he takes the title needing only one MP. He definitely lived up to his tattoo!
Topspin_80
Hall of Fame
I agree, lots of posters here are nothing but armchair tennis experts, it's crystal clear thru their senseless opinions.
Topspin_80
Hall of Fame
Specially in the last game when Djokovic tied at 30 all.
Great serving, and last point was awesome going for that last fh with no fear.
Alcaraz is something I have never seen before!
Rattie
Legend
He has the confidence to just go for it in big moments, that’s a rare thing. Luckily for him (and us) he has the talent for that to work.
optic yellow
Legend
I mean in an abstract sense I'd say we've seen it before.
the problem is not that sinner or ruud are scared of djojovic, i dont belueve that. they are just not as good tennis players as alcaraz, whose style is also unique.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Novak knew he had the mental edge against Fed and could rely on extracting errors from him when it mattered.
Alcaraz does not have any mental baggage against Djokovic and moves better than 38 year old Fed, so it wasn't as easy for Novak anymore.
Gumby
Semi-Pro
I wondered the same thing. He definitely made adjustments to his game after the FO loss. He understood how Joker was attacking his forehand corner and to ration his firepower more through the span of 5 sets. He doesn’t have to go 100 all the time. He can tone it down and play defensive as well. Like he did in the 3rd set. He was on lockdown mode which bothered Novak more than his power game. He couldn’t get an ace or a winner to save his life and that made him panic and go for too much which was uncharacteristic of him. Carlos brought out a nervous and anxious Joker. He always played Roger and Rafa with an “underdog” mentality. They’re his forebears so to speak. So he goes with a devil may care attitude. But With Carlos he knows he’s the favorite and he is supposed to beat the younger generation. He played with more pressure than expected. He was probably harder on himself than necessary.
Alcaraz absolutely had that baggage of RG embarassment to be fair. That's another reason why this win was special.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
That still doesn't compare to the mental baggage acquired after 40+ matches. One loss shouldn't lead to mental baggage. You'd have a point if there were more RG 2023-like matches.
Rattie
Legend
It would if he had read TTW at the time
Still in that one match Carlos embarrassed himself more than ******* did in any match. It was just brutal. Having been fans of both guys, this one's hurt freshly lingered til the Championships was over.
Mental baggage of 40 plus matches is valid of course, but it's also clear that Alcaraz himself came in with that baggage from not too long ago.
Topspin_80
Hall of Fame
Confidence is built upon making your shots, he's so good, he's got confidence overflowing.
I've been watching and playing tennis for decades, and I've never seen anyone so complete.
Topspin_80
Hall of Fame
Me, I've never ever seen anyone so complete and with every single shot, that he makes them weapons.
It's unbelievable.
His shot making is gonna dwarf Federer's.
You can see him improving, within weeks, even Djokovic concedes that he has never played someone like Alcaraz.
If we thought we were lucky having witnessed the big 3 era, we are even luckier having Alcaraz, to the chagrin of
Djoko fans that can feel, can see a real threat to Novaks' legacy.
Benf15harp
Hall of Fame
Most of these comments are ridiculous
Tiny was not better than Novak
Novak blew this match 3 times
should’ve been a straight set win.
There’s was absolutely nothing tiny was doing to bother Novak in the first 2 sets or the 4th.
For whatever reason he couldn’t hit routine BHs in the TB and that moronic DS
And then decided to serve for 30mins like a moron.
Novaks poor decisions cost him the match. Had nothing to do with tiny.
Tiny was not better than Novak
Novak blew this match 3 times
should’ve been a straight set win.
There’s was absolutely nothing tiny was doing to bother Novak in the first 2 sets or the 4th.
For whatever reason he couldn’t hit routine BHs in the TB and that moronic DS
And then decided to serve for 30mins like a moron.
Novaks poor decisions cost him the match. Had nothing to do with tiny.
Interesting point, and I agree - the win over ND who had the clear advantage coming into this match for a variety of reasons -is particularly magnigicent.
Here was a youngster, having lost due to cramping at the FO and playing a Wimbledon final with a Maestro of the game - losing the first set so badly, turning the match around and taking the momentum from ND piece by piece. This was not about ND losing it but of CA winning it. Simply outstanding.
I have read / heard so many analyses of the match since Sunday and without exception it has been acknowledged that CA outplayed ND when it mattered. ND himself has said that he has never played a player like CA, praising his abilities.
Yet on this board, we have the cheap mentality of some who begrudge CA his win. If the argument is that ND could not keep his game together and therefore lost, the answer is - bulls*it. ND could not keep his game together because CA denied him that opportunity at key moments. Superb stuff from CA to outplay ND. I anticipate that their future matches are likely to be just as compelling. After all, a contest between 2 great players should be exactly that.
Benf15harp
Hall of Fame
Breakdown the 2nd set tiebreaker for me.
A set Alcaraz should have won without needing a tiebreaker in the first place.
Topspin_80
Hall of Fame
Alcaraz lost the first set in every match he played Djokovic.
In 2 of them he came back to win the match , and in the one he lost, even though he lost the first set, he still was able to win the 2nd set.
Then, as usual, Djokovic gamesmanship and off he went for a toilet break.
When Djokovic came back, Alcaraz was able to hold his serve, then on Noval's serve he was if my memory serves me right,
0-30, then Djoko came back and at 40-30 cramps.
So when that episode occurred, Djoko was not leading, at the most the match was even.
Djokovic won, and who knows, perhaps that'll be his only win vs Alcaraz (I hope so)
Novak knows it's gonna be an uphill road his battle vs Carlitos.
I hope they meet at the USO 23, and AO 24.
RG GOD
Semi-Pro
flyingboris
Legend
Interesting, Novak with a W/UE ratio below 1 at 32:40, not sure how unusual that is. Any statistics wizards here?66 winners to 32.
9 aces to 2.
Benf15harp
Hall of Fame
Looks like 6 to 4 to me for Novak.66 winners to 32.
9 aces to 2.
Carlos destroyed the pusher.
But in reality, these numbers in no way show how this match Actually played out.
Topspin_80
Hall of Fame
That's right those numbers don't show the whole story.
But what about these numbers, I think they show accurately the whole story:
1-6 7-6 6-1 3-6 6-4
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Shut up armchair pro.
optic yellow
Legend
What do you see that he has over Federer? I'm not asking to challenge but rather for clarification.
Topspin_80
Hall of Fame
Federer had a magnificent career, just about the best in many aspects that the tennis world has seen.
What do I see in Alcaraz that could make him superior to Federer?
At 20 Alcaraz is not fully developed, and the way he's progressing makes me, and a lot of people besides me, believe that his
game is gonna be bigger than it is, so there is no telling how good he can become.
On what aspects I see a possible superiority?
Alcaraz has every shot, and every shot is a weapon, his backhand is better than Federer's, even though Federer had a great
defense, I think Alcaraz defense is better.
One part of his game that is clearly superior to Federer's, is how Alcaraz handles match points.
Playing a match point, Federer relied on percentage tennis, whereas Alcaraz goes for his shots, a prime example being
Wimbledon's final, on match point Alcaraz hit a great fh for a winner.
At this point in time, I see a slight superiority, that as time goes by could be bigger (or not)
All that doesn't mean Alcaraz is going to have a more successful career than Federer.
I can tell you as Nadal fan, that Roger's game was way more complete than Nadal's, but we know how it all ended up.
I have not heard any opinion on Alcaraz coming from either Fed, or Nadal, but Novak has stated that Alcaraz is different
and currently the best, Novak's opinion has some weight.
About year and a half ago, I stated that Alcaraz was the most complete player I had seen, some poster mocked me, it took over a year for Roddick to say it, then the same conclusion started cascading from other players and pundits.
My opinion is just that, an opinion, and we all be able to see how it develops in the coming years.
optic yellow
Legend
The one thing I would add is that on the FH he uses draw spin better than Federer, with the same sort of superlative intuitive artistry characteristic of Nadal.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
The full tiebreak has been posted on the Wimbledon channel. Novak tried to disrupt Alcaraz's momentum by taking an extended amount of time to serve when Alcaraz was up 5-4 in the tiebreak which got Novak hit with a time violation. He kept bouncing the ball repeatedly which is the most obvious sign that Novak was extremely tense. Novak's pushing effort didn't work here.
After the match Sachin Tendulkar wote on Twitter,"What a fantastic final to watch! Excellent tennis by both these athletes! We’re witnessing the rise of the next superstar of tennis. I’ll be following Carlos’ career for the next 10-12 years just like I did with @RogerFederer. Many congratulations @carlosalcaraz!."
Great tribute from one genius to another, whilst referring to the sublime RF. Love it.
Great tribute from one genius to another, whilst referring to the sublime RF. Love it.
I call Carlos Little Maestro for very cricket-rooted reasons, you see.
LOL!
Nadal - GOAT
Hall of Fame
I just watched it again and it is a tight tie-break. The 2 backhand UEs by Novak was surprising as was the decision to Serve and Volley on set point.
It kind of highlights how much pressure he was under. Against any other opponent he would have just stuck to percentage tennis.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
The ability to beat Djokovic in a Wimbledon final LOL
optic yellow
Legend
sadge
-snake-
Hall of Fame
Well, well...
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