Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
Well said, didn't think about that. Very impressive if she does it!
Let's hope she can back it up at the slams next year. I like JPeg.
2023 WTA Finals - General Discussion
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Let's hope she can back it up at the slams next year. I like JPeg.
spystud
Talk Tennis Guru
Doubles 12:30 Central, singles 4:30.
volleyandfun
Hall of Fame
@robyrolfo, I see geography is not your strong point, so don't brag too much about it.
All 3 above mentioned players came from countries smaller than Poland or Belarus (at the time).
Not to mention Switzerland (Federer), Belgium (Henin), ohh I almost forgot Djoko.
WTA is actually in a good place now, there are so many good players now which makes the game so much more interesting.
I don't see any of those greats from the past would have a chance of challenging current top 10.
They were great maybe, MAYBE, because they were in a weak era.
Sure would be better to have Ash Barty around for a bit longer, but even at her peak, she still wasn't as dominant as those above.
Winners or Errors
Legend
You've overstated this - but the basic point is, I think, valid. Today's players could certainly have hung in there with many of the greats of yesteryear on the WTA. There's some nice parity going on and challenges at the top are nicer to watch than the same person or people winning every freaking tournament.
Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
Will be just the second time in 10 years and the first since 2018 that the champion of the WTA Finals goes undefeated. Both Swiatek and Pegula won their groups 3-0 so whoever takes the title will go 5-0.
Last year Garcia won 4-1 after losing to Swiatek in the RR stage.
In 2021, Muguruza won 4-1 after a loss to Pliskova in the RR.
2019, Barty had the surprise loss to alternate Bertens in the RR stage but won 4-1.
2017, Wozniacki lost to Garcia in the RR for 4-1.
2016 and 2015 were those horrid years where Cibulkova and Radwanska won despite going 1-2 in the RR stage.
2014, Serena lost to Halep in the RR stage before getting revenge in the final for 4-1.
Last year Garcia won 4-1 after losing to Swiatek in the RR stage.
In 2021, Muguruza won 4-1 after a loss to Pliskova in the RR.
2019, Barty had the surprise loss to alternate Bertens in the RR stage but won 4-1.
2017, Wozniacki lost to Garcia in the RR for 4-1.
2016 and 2015 were those horrid years where Cibulkova and Radwanska won despite going 1-2 in the RR stage.
2014, Serena lost to Halep in the RR stage before getting revenge in the final for 4-1.
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Fintft
G.O.A.T.
Iga improved and is hitting harder then in the past, kudos!
ScottleeSV
Hall of Fame
Pegula on track to become the Davydenko of the WTA; a list of scalps as long as your arm on the regular tour, and yet, at the majors...
I guess she'll be aiming to be more of a Petr Korda.
I guess she'll be aiming to be more of a Petr Korda.
ScottleeSV
Hall of Fame
Didn't the Fort Worth finals last year finish on a Monday or am I remembering wrong?
robyrolfo
Hall of Fame
I don't know. She always seems to have some strange performances in Slams where she looks completely off her game and lifeless. Her loss at the USO this year is a good example. Looked like she wasn't even trying or bothered that she was losing.
Yep, it's strange at best. Pretty much everyone knows that there are multiple doubles players that are far superior to her, and yet here we are. But people want to claim this is a strong era...
This was exactly how Gauff won that USO final. Yes, Swiatek keeps the ball in play with more pace and placement than Gauff, but both just waited for Sabalenka to implode. To think she is a world #1...
Yes, overall, she is better than the field right now. That said, she also has some glaring weaknesses in her game. If Barty, a strong but hardly amazing player, was still around, she would be sitting easily at the top.
Yes, and this is the #1 player in the world right now. It's almost a joke. See more in my next post...
Look at those names, and then think that Sabalkena, Krejikova (spelling) and now potentially Pegula could be alongside them? Think about Pegula's matches thus far, where she beat Rybakina, Sabalenka and Gauff without so much as a contest. The level is BAD...Pegula can accomplish a very rare feat by defeating the #1, #2 and #3 players in the world in the same tournament if she beats Swiatek in the final.
robyrolfo
Hall of Fame
Excuse you? What is wrong with my geography? Are the world #1 and #2 not from those countries? Maybe you have issues with geopolitics? Did you ever think about that?
You think a player from Belarus is very marketable right now? Seriously? And Poland is a significant country in the minds of most Europeans, but less so in the rest of the world, where it isn't considered Western European.
Then what? You want to put Henin in the same sentence Federer and Djokovic? Ok, that's hilarious. Those guys are all time greats with over 20 slams. And one of them is loved because he is a consummate gentleman from Switzerland, a Western European country that everyone likes, or is at least neutral about (pun intended). The other has achieved added notoriety as a villain, with incidents that we are all familiar with...
The rest of your laughable assertions will be addressed below.
Sorry, but I have no idea how you guys could even thing this. The modern WTA has devolved in little more than ball bashing contests, with just a few exceptions. It's a bunch of women blasting away with modern racquets and strings, knowing that most of their hard shots will either be winners, or UE's. They then just hope they are having a good day, with more of the former than the latter, appearing "dominant" in the process. Sabalenka is the ultimate example of this. I actually like Sabalenka, and she is a glorious looking human being, but her matches are awful to watch. Ostapenko's US Open this year is another great example. She pretty much made a mockery of the sport. And then you have Guaff at the USO, who Brad Gilbert (astutely) told to simply run everything down and get everything back, because most of her opponents can't consistently finish points over three sets... and lo and behold, we get a USO champion that in earlier rounds was played off the court by the likes of Laura Sigmond, Elise Mertens, and out of retirement Wozniacki, before nerves or fatigue got the best of them.
Look, I know these comparisons across generations are always difficult, but now we have more actual evidence to work with. Check out the video below from the 1988 Wimbledon final. It has been "remastered" in HD, and condensed to the points only. It only takes a few points/minutes to see the difference.
These two are using racquets from 1988, with (presumably) natural gut strings, and playing on a well used grass center court (see earlier discussion about inconsistencies)... and they are still playing tennis that is leagues ahead of what the women are doing today, in every category save for raw power. Their serving is 10x better than anyone in the WTA right now. Their volleying is 50x better than anyone in the WTA (and I'm really not exaggerating). Their shot placement, variety, tactical accumen and consistency are all better than anything seen on tour right now... and they are playing against amazing competition (each other). If you really think any current WTA player could challenge them, you really don't understand this sport. Even with their 1988 equipment, they would simply put the ball in places that today's big bashers would absolutely hate. They simply wouldn't let them bash. And that's without even talking about the way they come to the net and finish off points properly, a trait which is now extinct in the women's game. Seriously, watch some of it. Just pick a point in the middle of the match and go. (Edit: also, note how windy it is...)
ScottleeSV
Hall of Fame
Was is that bad? Did you get the chance to go?
D-Lite
Hall of Fame
I am intrigued by the Swiatek vs Pegula match up. Pegula leads the 2023 H2H 2-1, including their most recent match. I'm hoping it's a contest, and it should be given both have gone 4-0. I think Swiatek is the most likely victor but Pegula certainly has a chance especially if she's unfazed by Swiatek's motivation/momentum at this event. I'd like Pegula to win this if it boosts her confidence and she's able to do something next she. She would look damn good lifting that AO title in my opinion.
ScottleeSV
Hall of Fame
I think it's going to be close (like their match in the summer). Pegula has that capability of being a brick wall.
sportsfan1
Legend
Peggy winning the title would be great, something different from the usual swiatek domination.
Connor35
Semi-Pro
Which weaknesses are those?
And why didn't the world #1 (AO champ) or #3 (US Open champ) exploit those?
Cage Rattler
Rookie
Two comments on a final .. about sums up the interest and quality of tennis,,,
ScottleeSV
Hall of Fame
Swiatek playing well; the loopier slower kind of shots are stopping Pegula cracking it back the way she likes to.
Pegula needs to unfreeze her mind and limbs a little bit. It's closer to a masters than a major. No need to think of it as the be all and end all.
Pegula needs to unfreeze her mind and limbs a little bit. It's closer to a masters than a major. No need to think of it as the be all and end all.
robyrolfo
Hall of Fame
WTF, did it start early, as you said?
Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
Ooft this could be over fast.
Swiatek breaks to love. She's up 6-1 3-0. Serving for 4-0...
Swiatek breaks to love. She's up 6-1 3-0. Serving for 4-0...
robyrolfo
Hall of Fame
For starters, her net game. As I said earlier, watch her round robin match against Gauff, and the game where Gauff broke her serve (the 2nd or 3rd game of the 2nd set, I believe). She hit two laughable volleys. And I don't say that because they were easy and the ball simply landed out, but her technique was just all wrong. There was plenty of that in her loss to Gauff in Cincinatti as well.
Then there is the whole mental aspect, which is an entirely different can of worms. Again, look up at that video of Graf v Navratilova at Wimbledon. Their mental composure is yet another aspect of their games that is MILES ahead of today's top WTA players.
Winners or Errors
Legend
Disappointing, but Pegula played what, four good matches? I guess it's not surprising that she might throw in a stinker for #5. Either winner was fine with me, but wanted more of a match to this point. Swiatek wants that YE #1.
spystud
Talk Tennis Guru
Was 4:30 on FlashScore yesterday, apparently 3:45 today.
Not sure how the ‘fall back’ affected their site.
Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
Another Swiatek demolition and she is the 2023 WTA Finals champion.
She regains the #1 ranking to finish the year with another YE #1.
Thrashes Pegula 6-1 6-0.
She regains the #1 ranking to finish the year with another YE #1.
Thrashes Pegula 6-1 6-0.
Baseline_Bungle
Legend
Well, between what's happening off the court and what's happening on court, I think this is arguably the lowest point in women's tennis history.
Anyways, congrats to Eeeega on another nice bake job...
LOL
Anyways, congrats to Eeeega on another nice bake job...
LOL
Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
Swiatek's week against the top 8 players in the world
7-6 6-0 v Vondrousova
6-0 7-5 v Gauff
6-1 6-2 v Jabeur
6-3 6-2 v Sabalenka
6-1 6-0 v Pegula
3 bagels served, 2 breadsticks given. No sets dropped.
Utterly dominant.
7-6 6-0 v Vondrousova
6-0 7-5 v Gauff
6-1 6-2 v Jabeur
6-3 6-2 v Sabalenka
6-1 6-0 v Pegula
3 bagels served, 2 breadsticks given. No sets dropped.
Utterly dominant.
Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
Considering women's tennis history has had defaults, Monica Seles stabbing, bans of players like Sharapova and Halep and embarrassing line judging calls... I don't think a player being incredibly dominant at the YEC is "the lowest point in tennis history".
ScottleeSV
Hall of Fame
Awful final. That said, it's been two unbelievable performances back to back from Swiatek, and you've got to admire that. She's gone 6-3 6-2 6-0 6-1 against Sabalenka and Pegula - two of the world's top five.
And what a steal for world number 1! Wins in Beijing and Cancun to steal it at the death. Sabalenka must be absolutely gutted. As generally rubbish as this tournament has been (Swiatek's insane quality aside), I can't remember year end number 1 being pinched like this at the last minute.
Pegula was mediocre rather than poor; Swiatek just didn't give her an inch. The nature of that dip in level though makes me think that if she is going to win a major, she'll have to be lucky enough to play a Sakkari or a Garcia. That kind of final.
And what a steal for world number 1! Wins in Beijing and Cancun to steal it at the death. Sabalenka must be absolutely gutted. As generally rubbish as this tournament has been (Swiatek's insane quality aside), I can't remember year end number 1 being pinched like this at the last minute.
Pegula was mediocre rather than poor; Swiatek just didn't give her an inch. The nature of that dip in level though makes me think that if she is going to win a major, she'll have to be lucky enough to play a Sakkari or a Garcia. That kind of final.
coolcamden
Hall of Fame
Oh maannnn… that was hard to watch. Total domination. I’d said way earlier, IS is PO’ed and wanted her #1 back, and she is willing to massacre anyone on the way. She was head and shoulders above the other “top 8”.
Dominic & Andrey
Legend
Holy sh*t !
Dominic & Andrey
Legend
It was worse in 2017-2018.
tennisjedi
Hall of Fame
Total domination from 1ga from start to finish. Pegula and Swiatek didn't drop a set before the final and then Pegula eats a breadstick and a bagel in the final.
ScottleeSV
Hall of Fame
Well, 2020 has to be the all time worst. No tournament.
Baseline_Bungle
Legend
I'm not talking about Swiatek's performance per se, but of the overall quality of the spectacle on display.
Of 15 matches, only 3 went 3 sets, none of which were especially compelling.
24 of 32 sets played ended 6-3 or worse, including TWELVE bagels and breadsticks.
The final 3 matches of the tournament ended 63 62, 62 61 and 61 60.
You may want to blame some of this on the grotesque setting, conditions and context of what is supposed to be the epic final showdown of the tennis season. But that would only reinforce my point.
ok, so Iga's net game is not top notch. Sure. In that video you posted Steffi did not hit a single topspin backhand. She holds a ball in her left hand so she can't even properly change the grip on the racket. Sooo? She still won without topspin backhand. Iga wins without having to hit top level volleys. Same thing.
really. So coming back from 1:4 third set in last year US open against Sabalenka is not mentally strong enough for you. Coming back from 3:4 break down in the third in this year French Open final is not good enough. Winning against Bencic in Wimbledon after saving two match points is not good enough.
No one is saying that Iga is on Graf's or Navratilova level yet. These are the (ones of) greatest players ever in the history of the game. But let's not kid ourselves either. in 1988 Graf lost 3 matches. 3. Now let's look at the competition. https://www.tennisabstract.com/cgi-bin/wplayer-classic.cgi?p=SteffiGraf&f=A1988qqC2 Other than Evert and Navratilova and Sabatini - do you know _any_ of those players? Graf did not needed any mental composure - she just needed to show up to win (of course I'm exaggerating). again, with all due respect to Graf's and arguably the greatest season in tennis ever.
When players from past eras have dominant season: those were the players, great skills + mental strength.
When today's players have 60+ win consecutive seasons, with multiple grand slam + WTA finals wins: this is weak era, the _other players_ do not know how to play.
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marc45
G.O.A.T.
and going back to Chris and Martina's era they had to face very little competition until the semis, and often not much there....there are reasons they faced each other so many times...one is they were great, the other is the competition was often not
that's exactly true. Like when you look at the names of those players they faced till semis you are like 'what'? Are those even professional tennis players? have they ever won anything?
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