roysid
Legend
Yes I'm waiting. Ping me when he wins against Djokovic in an important match.
2023 YEC Final: Novak Djokovic vs. Jannik Sinner
- Thread starter UnforcedTerror
- Start date
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
That RR was an important match. Besides, Djokovic is not the only player out there.
TripleATeam
G.O.A.T.
But much better for his future confidence to lose to the GOAT rather than a generational rival.
NYTennisfan
Hall of Fame
I know there's plenty of Djokovic fans out there and I don't want to overreact to a Bo3 tournament but it's frightening for tennis fans how far Djokovic is ahead of the field. He was one Djokosmash essentially away from winning the CYGS plus ATP finals plus Cincy which is arguably the most important Masters while losing only 4 sets total in those finals.
I respect the greatness but these young guys just ain't cutting it and I say that as one of Alcaraz's biggest fans. 2024 Australian Open is already a formality. The torch isn't close to being passed, that flame barely has a flicker. This is not good for tennis.
I respect the greatness but these young guys just ain't cutting it and I say that as one of Alcaraz's biggest fans. 2024 Australian Open is already a formality. The torch isn't close to being passed, that flame barely has a flicker. This is not good for tennis.
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Ray Mercer
Hall of Fame
Sinner’s a bum. The guy looks like a little twig that the wind would blow over. For goodness sake get in the weight room.
robyrolfo
Hall of Fame
Forgot to mention, I've never seen Djokovic serve that well. He looked like Isner or something. Combine that with Sinner having an off day, and it's actually something of a testament to have far Sinner has come that hey kept it somewhat close.
I've never seen him play so sloppy, and I can only think that he was struggling a bit early on, and then all the pressure of home expectations made him simply lose it.
One could just as easily argue that he was "ruthless" by winning a match that he didn't need to win, and sending a message to one of his contemporaries in the process.
What is with you people. You strike me as the type that probably thinks insider trading is cool, because doing whatever it takes to get ahead is totally fine...
As for the Djokosmash, it was on full display tonight. Funny how the supposedly greatest player of all time still can't figure out one of the fundamental shots in the game.
And it wasn't just that he was having a bad night, it was that he kept teasing the fans into thinking he might turn it around. A couple of big points in key moments in the 2nd, plus at least two games where he was up 0-30 to get the break back... only to squander those chances with seemingly simple errors.
I've never seen him play so sloppy, and I can only think that he was struggling a bit early on, and then all the pressure of home expectations made him simply lose it.
Dude, did you miss that match earlier when Sinner took not one, but two sets off of Djokovice? Two out of the three that they played?
What? You are saying he isn't "ruthless" because he didn't purposely lose a match? Seriously?
One could just as easily argue that he was "ruthless" by winning a match that he didn't need to win, and sending a message to one of his contemporaries in the process.
What is with you people. You strike me as the type that probably thinks insider trading is cool, because doing whatever it takes to get ahead is totally fine...
Well first off, I wouldn't say Cincy isn't the most important masters. Quite a few guys seems to be in "play hard but DON'T GET HURT" mode, and I just think that these days both Indian Wells and Miami are more important and prestigeous.
As for the Djokosmash, it was on full display tonight. Funny how the supposedly greatest player of all time still can't figure out one of the fundamental shots in the game.
Baseline_Bungle
Legend
Intelligent, eclectic, thoughtful, insightful, articulate, deep, honest, supremely confident yet surprisingly human, with his doubts, his demons and his internal conflicts.
Another amazing performance followed by yet another can't-miss press conference - which happens to be one more area in which he stands head & shoulders above everybody else, past or present.
I was rooting for Sinner, as I always do. Still, I can't help but rejoice at another triumph by this incredible person, and the greatest tennis player of all time.
A true giant among men.
Another amazing performance followed by yet another can't-miss press conference - which happens to be one more area in which he stands head & shoulders above everybody else, past or present.
I was rooting for Sinner, as I always do. Still, I can't help but rejoice at another triumph by this incredible person, and the greatest tennis player of all time.
A true giant among men.
A
ALCARAZWON
Guest
Sinner you STUPID S.O.B.!
Niekotokio
Semi-Pro
SInner not Alcataraz?
roysid
Legend
When Djokovic is on a losing position, he does everything possible to change the momentum. Taking long breaks, changing clothes, playing mind games, yelling and cursing etc. All these to desperately turn around a match. Where is the morality then.
It's very common for players to save some energy in the 3rd match in YEM if they had already qualified. Why go all out.
And particularly if you have a chance to eliminate the greatest threat without harming your semi chances, then what's the smart thing to do?
As I said, it's a known practise and this year only Meddy was clearly not trying his best in the 3rd match. Another eg came to my mind when Thiem qualified and gave no effort and lost the 3rd match in straights.
As if that mattered to his fans.
Big_Dangerous
Talk Tennis Guru
Sinner be like:
"I let him off the hook!"
"I let him off the hook!"
sortof
Professional
May I remind you that Djokovic ist 36 years old - winning a slam at this age is all but a "formality". The doors are closing for Djokovic, even the mightiest warrior is going to succumb to the inevitable process called ageing. What we are witnessing now are the final stages of his career. Don´t cry too hard if he doesn´t win the AO 2024...
Apun94
Hall of Fame
Agreed. The level he showed in the semis and now the finals was close to Peakovic. Unbelievable.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Nah, they just need to match guys like Stan and Murray. How quickly people forget.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
He's already declined, but the rest of the guys are inept.
Murray beat Djokovic during 2012-14 period when Djokovic struggled mentally in big matches. Post Becker Djokovic with polished game and strong mentality wouldn't be losing to Murray anywhere.
Stan however is different case. He has got crazy high peak level and on top of that he was bad matchup for Djokovic. He was one of his kind.
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mike danny
Bionic Poster
Post Becker Djokovic also faced weaker competition so of course his mentality improved.
Point is 2012-2014 Djokovic wipes the floor with these younger players even while struggling mentally.
Benf15harp
Hall of Fame
Accurate
robyrolfo
Hall of Fame
You are really pouring it on here, but honestly it's hard to disagree with what you wrote. Those clips you posted were quite fascinating...
Which brings us this impossible juxtaposition that Djokovic always creates in my mind: on the court, during matches, I can't stand him. I can't stand his antics and behavior. He seems like an absolute jerk. Then, off the court (or even on the court, right after matches in on-court interviews), he seems like a completely different person. A gracious loser (when it happens), and quite pensive, measured and personable. Basically the opposite of a jerk. So what I can't really understand is why or how his nice, off the court persona doesn't in some way shape his on the court self. Maybe it's intentional. Maybe he thinks he needs that nasty edge to compete and motivate himself (I've heard he tried to play very relaxed/chill one season, and didn't do well). Or maybe he just can't help it. Or, maybe again, he taking something to help with mental focus, and that shows through in his behavior. I really don't know... but I'm always conflicted when watching him play, and so I rarely root for him.
Exactly, there is no "morality" or sportsmanship there. But you are saying that like it is a good thing. I'm sure some of you think it is (more on that below). There have always been athletes like this in sports, those guys that have no qualms about playing dirty and doing whatever it takes to win. Lance Armsrtong is the poster-boy for this attitude (and yes, that implies everything that it implies), but there are plenty of other examples. Even guys like Neymar that are going to dive, and cheat, and fake injury... and pull every trick in the book to get ahead. If the sport allows it, they are going to do it/abuse it, and some people will always look the other way. Me, personally, based on my own experience in sport (where winning in that way never felt as good or satisfying as winning the right way), I just can't get behind it.
As for Sinner's third group stage match, see above. We clearly view sports and sportsmanship differently. Plus, Sinner was riding an impressive match winning streak, and Rune was 2-0 against him head to head. Clearly Jannik is a very competitive guy, and so he probably didn't want that brat to break his streak and establish some sort of mini dominance in the head to head, especially after what went down at Monte Carlo this year. If instead of Rune it was Hurcaz, or Sonnego, or Tommy Paul... who knows, maybe he doesn't push himself to the limit, but it was Rune on the other end of the net, and he went for it. Comparing him to Thiem and Medvedev is a long stretch. Different opponents, different points of their career, different locations (not playing in front of a home crowd and entire country that is going nuts for you)...
This! This is what bothers me so much about his fans. As I described above, you have this enigma of a tennis player and human being, capable of being a jerk on the court and nice guy off of it... and 99% seem to love and worship the jerk. They identify with the jerk, they project the jerk, they embody the jerkiness of our society. He is their jerk god. It's sad, and a little pathetic.
(BTW, Fed fans have a similarly unappealing side, in my opinion, where they view him as this aristocratic snob that happens (or happened) to be great at tennis, and so they embrace this sort of 'we are a societal class above you' attitude that is also gross).
He said it himself in that interview. 2023 Djokovic beats 2015 Djokovic. He was joking about it being a blowout, but in the end I think he believes it, and why not? Personally, although my sport was something other than tennis, I thought I was a better player at 36 than I was at 26. Whatever slight edge you have physically at a younger age, it is more than compensated for by all the knowledge and wisdom you can employ at a higher age. You might be half a step faster when you are younger, but if your ability to read the game and anticipate better puts you a full step ahead... when then you can do the math.
NYTennisfan
Hall of Fame
I'll bet the car, the house, the farm, the county that he wins AO barring injury. He is to the AO as an in form Nadal is to the FO until proven otherwise. You see the door closing in the next 2 months? Based on what? Who do you think has a real shot to beat him in a Bo5 on his favorite surface?
Cry? I guess you didn't read my post about him winning all the time being BAD for tennis. I am NOT rooting for him to win the AO, I'm just being realistic and betting on the trends which are overwhelmingly in his favor.
I won't as he already has surpassed all expectations so anything here on in is just a bonus. If he only 1 GS next year and the OG then I would be more than happy.
robyrolfo
Hall of Fame
The only way I see him getting challenged is if the conditions are really hot and tough, and he gets dragged into a grueling match with Alcaraz, Sinner or both. What are the seedings going to be? Will Sinner be #3 or #4? If he has to play both Alcaraz and Sinner to win, there could be a slight chance he falters. Otherwise, I agree with you. It's definitely his to lose.
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
Sinner doesn't like hot and tough conditions.
sortof
Professional
1 slam plus olympic gold in 2024, I suppose he wouldn´t be too disappointed either. He really needs to get his hands on one of these gold medals. This would leave the grand slam as last and final unfulfilled dream.
sortof
Professional
Djokovic is the clear favorite to win the AO 2024. Still, his fitness needs to be at 100%, which is not a given at his age, and guys like Alcaraz, Sinner, Zverev, and even Shelton may represent pretty tough challenges on a good day. Based on what? Alcaraz has already beaten him in a slam final this year, Sinner has just scored his first win against him, Zverev destroyed him in the last olympics semi-final, and to everyones surprise - Shelton could be the dark horse.
albertobra
Hall of Fame
.
Vincent-C
Legend
I fully agree that Djok is the favorite for AO24, given what we know. He is not young, though, and could fall off the cliff at any time.
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Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
I know right...one day you're the bomb, the next day you're a bust.
NYTennisfan
Hall of Fame
None of those are at the Australian Open which is his playground and none were on a hard court in a Bo5. In fact, he hasn't lost in a hard court slams to anybody since 2019 and not at the AO since 2018.
I'm not saying it's impossible for somebody to beat him because it's sports and anything is possible but it's as close to impossible as one can get in sports as long as he's healthy.
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Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
Did you see his draw at the USO 2023? It wasn't exactly murderer's row. I suspect his draw won't be as kind in Melbourne. Not that he needs it to be.
robyrolfo
Hall of Fame
Based on what? Genuine question. Him being from the mountains? Because he actually did pretty well in Miami, in grueling conditions, outlasting Alcaraz physically (and in the final he was clearly ill). His US Open match vs Zverev was also in some of the hottest and toughest conditions possible, and he didn't struggle any more than his opponent did, Zverev just happened to play a great match.
If Rafa is healthy, getting that Gold on clay is going to be a titanic battle. As for the rest, it just makes Graf's golden slam season that much more impressive.
Yes, glad someone remembered old Ben. He was looking really good during the Asian swing, and has plenty of room for improvement.
robyrolfo
Hall of Fame
Didn't Medvedev beat him on a hard court in the 2021 USO final?
Nope.
CYGS attempt beat him.
NYTennisfan
Hall of Fame
Yes of course. Have no idea how I missed that one but that was an extremely rare Chokeovic moment.
Vincent-C
Legend
special pleading.
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
His illness in Miami is not the first time he has been sick in the heat. He has cramped in important matches before. I think in his match in New York against Zverev three years ago he was pretty bad off, too. Has improved tremendously, but I would not say he enjoys the heat.
robyrolfo
Hall of Fame
I see, so he didn't have the mental fortitude of Graf. Got it. Why not just say so? At least his hissy fit at the Olympics, and crying like a baby at the USO made for some good entertainment.
He was ill in Miami, in the sense that he had a virus or something. He was hampered from the very first point. And yes, he has cramped before, but so have Alcaraz and Rune, probably to an even greater extent. I don't think he he particularly enjoys the heat, either, but I don't think it is a particular hinderance to him. Maybe he needs to start drinking whatever magic potions Djokovic drinks.
Benf15harp
Hall of Fame
Ffs what’s the deal with this Shelton BS. He will never be even half as good as Roddick.
Krish0608
G.O.A.T.
The writing was on the wall
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
LOL. When has he shown the fitness and endurance to win seven BO5 matches in brutal heat?Sinner regroups and wins AO24.
The title is Djokovic's, barring a catastrophic injury.
And anyone even mentioning Shelton as a contender is on the hard drugs.
dking68
G.O.A.T.
He’s a contender on outdoor hard unlike your guy who doesn’t even win matches outdoors. Sinner also made the QF at age 20. Let’s see if Rune can do that at the upcoming AO
Niekotokio
Semi-Pro
in my opinion, they are both somewhat questionable in these circumstances
A
ALCARAZWON
Guest
Its Sinner's fault that Djokovic reached the Semi-Final stage.
It was all in Sinner's hand and he BLEW IT with his pure arrogance of thinking he could beat Djokovic twice indoors.
Rune was on the brink of winning, and all Sinner had to do was conserve some energy and Djokovic would have been sent home EARLY.
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
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