2024 ATP Finals Turin RR: [2] Zverev vs [3] Alcaraz

How will the match end?

  • Zverev victory in 2 sets

    Votes: 4 36.4%

  • Zverev victory in 3 sets

    Votes: 5 45.5%

  • Alcaraz victory in 2 sets

    Votes: 2 18.2%

  • Alcaraz victory in 3 sets

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    11
  • Poll closed .
Hitman said:
But who says that? I have yet to see anyone say that unless you can show me examples of players claiming as such.
Click to expand...
That's what this tournament represents. The top 8 players of the year and then the winner of it is the best player of the year.

This isn't just a random Masters of 500. It's the top 8 guys of the year. So to win that tournament shows it.

I've heard this for years, perhaps others haven't??

If the final was Sinner v Alcaraz, two guys locked at 2 slams a piece in 2024 we know people would say the winner of this has the edge for the year. This tournament does mean something. It means more than say Cincy or Rome.
 
Aussie Darcy said:
That's what this tournament represents. The top 8 players of the year and then the winner of it is the best player of the year.

This isn't just a random Masters of 500. It's the top 8 guys of the year. So to win that tournament shows it.

I've heard this for years, perhaps others haven't??

If the final was Sinner v Alcaraz, two guys locked at 2 slams a piece in 2024 we know people would say the winner of this has the edge for the year. This tournament does mean something. It means more than say Cincy or Rome.
Click to expand...
Everyone ranks slams above everything else. What gets said about the YEC is that you don't really get weak draws here and it is very tough to win. Those two things are not the same. And it is mostly said to those that try to downplay it year after year as some exho because their guy may not have won it.
 
Hitman said:
Everyone ranks slams above everything else. What gets said about the YEC is that you don't really get weak draws here and it is very tough to win. Those two things are not the same. And it is mostly said to those that try to downplay it year after year as some exho because their guy may not have won it.
Click to expand...
Isn’t this tournament literally marketed and known as being the best 8 men of the year and the winner is the champion of the best 8 players of the year?

Of course we rank the slams higher but it’s well established in the media and everywhere that this tournament is the best of the best exclusively fighting it out for the year end championship. Year end champ being the best of the year against the best of the cohort.
 
RF-18 said:
Zverev now has a winning h2h vs both Alcaraz and Sinner. :eek:
Click to expand...

Well that does surprise me but not that much. Zverev seems more motivated against those two and enjoys the battle.

Most important he has that nasty very big serve + counterpuncher combination with a higher talent level than good old Medvedev. Has been more aggressive with his forehand and is now crushing the forehand if need be.

Still not that good hands at the net, weak drop shots and a non-elite slice but the bread and butter game is great.
 
ChrisRF said:
Yes, this is enough. Also a somewhat close loss in 2 sets will still do it for him. Ruud is +3 in games and Rublev is -8. So only with something like 3-6 3-6 it will turn to Rublev.
Click to expand...
Isnt Rublev actually -8 and Alcaraz -6?

Edit: oh sorry i thought you wrote Rublev was -5
 
Jonas78 said:
Isnt Rublev actually -8 and Alcaraz -6?
Click to expand...
Yes, and Ruud +3. That's why Alcaraz has no chance anymore. If Rublev beats Ruud with a result that puts Ruud behind Alcaraz, then Rublev himself will always be in front of Alcaraz. It's only between those two tonight.
 
Aussie Darcy said:
Isn’t this tournament literally marketed and known as being the best 8 men of the year and the winner is the champion of the best 8 players of the year?

Of course we rank the slams higher but it’s well established in the media and everywhere that this tournament is the best of the best exclusively fighting it out for the year end championship. Year end champ being the best of the year against the best of the cohort.
Click to expand...
The tournament is marketed as the top 8 playing each other, yes, but no where does it say that whoever wins this is the best....that is why they have a year ending number one trophy presentation. Everyone knows Sinner is the best player in the world right now. They give that trophy during this event, and you don't really get that trophy unless you have won a slam.
 
Aussie Darcy said:
Isn’t this tournament literally marketed and known as being the best 8 men of the year and the winner is the champion of the best 8 players of the year?
Click to expand...
The winner is the champion of this event. And since the event is generally considered the fifth-biggest tournament of the year, it's an important title. The guarantee of the strongest possible mini-field adds prestige. However, not even the ATP touts the winner of the ATP Finals as necessarily the best player of the year. They rely on the ATP rankings to make that call -- hence, the enormous trophy going to the year-end no. 1.
 
Carlitos will bounce back and he certainly was not a 100% today. This doesn’t take anything away form Zverev, nor did it from him in IW, Medvedev in Wimbledon or Sinner in the US Open semifinal.

Health is part of the equation but for his and Rafa’s sake I would have hoped to see him after that defeat against Ruud no longer in Turin but in Malaga.
 
JMR said:
The winner is the champion of this event. And since the event is generally considered the fifth-biggest tournament of the year, it's an important title. The guarantee of the strongest possible mini-field adds prestige. However, not even the ATP touts the winner of the ATP Finals as necessarily the best player of the year. They rely on the ATP rankings to make that call -- hence, the enormous trophy going to the year-end no. 1.
Click to expand...
Thanks for ignoring my point.

The tournament is the year end championships or world tour finals. Is the player not awarded that tournament title name?

Clearly I AM not saying they are the year end champion or world tour final champion. But that’s the tournament. That’s the title. That’s how it reads.

For us proper fans we know better, but when non tennis people read “Coco Gauff is the year end champion of the WTA tour, or potentially “Casper Ruud is the end of year end ATP Finals champion”. That people will go oh wow, best player of the year.
 
Hitman said:
The tournament is marketed as the top 8 playing each other, yes, but no where does it say that whoever wins this is the best....that is why they have a year ending number one trophy presentation. Everyone knows Sinner is the best player in the world right now. They give that trophy during this event, and you don't really get that trophy unless you have won a slam.
Click to expand...
Connors finished as the YE #1 without winning a slam in 1975 and 1977 8-B
 
nolefam_2024 said:
Zverev is likely going to win a slam very soon. He deserves it.
Click to expand...
Curious to know which one you think he’ll win? Been told Sinner has a stranglehold on the hard court slams so they’re out, Zverev’s never been good at Wimbledon having never gone past the 4R so that just leaves the French? Having lost the final this year to Alcaraz, I’m unsure of his chances. But always nice to hear other opinions :)
 
The highly probable Sinner-Zverev final could be the match of the year.

Today Sacha impressed me a lot with how clear he was in key moments apart from his break points.
But above all I was impressed by how he defended himself in prolonged exchanges.

Now let's see him against Fritz if he can tame his recent bête noire.
If he plays like today only Sinner can prevent him from winning the third tournament of the ATP Finals.

As for Alcaraz, both today and against Rublev he demonstrated that qualification was well within his reach, but he threw it away in the unfortunate debut match against Ruud.
If he had played against the Norwegian like he played today against Zverev, he would hardly have lost that match.
 
NoleFam said:
I'm always amazed how this guy can serve 80% for an entire match while hitting monstrous serves. Crazy that he can't put it together to win a Slam.
Click to expand...
That has been amazing that he hasn't won yet. A small part of me believes that he will no longer crumble at the finish line. However, I now think that the competition is too tough.

That said, I still think that he has a slam title in him. He's too good to go slamless. But he's going to need some draws to open up.
 
Aussie Darcy said:
He might not be the best player on the ATP paper but he's the better player against the so called best player ;)
Click to expand...
Exactly = for Tsitsipas. ahahahaha

Alcaraz (3-0) and Tsitsipas (1-0) are the two best players of the season because they finished the season h2h ahead with the number 1 of 2024.
But... even the various Dimitrov, Draper, Humbert or Ruud can be considered the best of the season given that they ended the seasonal h2h ahead against the player who ended the seasonal h2h ahead number 1 of 2024.

In the meantime, write down the number 3920.
 
Last edited:
Aussie Darcy said:
Thanks for ignoring my point.
Click to expand...
Your point was this (quoting you): "I'm not a fan of when a player wins the YEC/WTF but hasn't won a slam that year, it just seems stupid. No disrespect to Coco Gauff this year on the WTA side or Zverev or Tsitsipas in years gone by for the ATP but you can't say you're the best player of the year because you won the year end tournament but you didn't win a single slam that year."

Then you were asked, in a very reasonable follow-up by @Hitman, "But who says that?" Indeed, who? Who is going around announcing, "I am the best player of the year because I won the year-end tournament"?

You answered: "That's what this tournament represents. The top 8 players of the year and then the winner of it is the best player of the year."

That is not correct. The tournament does not "represent" that its winner is the best player of the year. The name of the event doesn't say that; it has never said or implied that. Moreover, moving the goalposts now by speculating about what people who know little or nothing about tennis might believe serves no purpose. They know little or nothing about tennis, so whatever they may think is irrelevant.
 
Last edited:
JMR said:
Your point was this (quoting you): "I'm not a fan of when a player wins the YEC/WTF but hasn't won a slam that year, it just seems stupid. No disrespect to Coco Gauff this year on the WTA side or Zverev or Tsitsipas in years gone by for the ATP but you can't say you're the best player of the year because you won the year end tournament but you didn't win a single slam that year."

Then you were asked, in a very reasonable follow-up by @Hitman, "But who says that?" Indeed, who? Who is going around announcing, "I am the best player of the year because I won the year-end tournament?"

You answered: "That's what this tournament represents. The top 8 players of the year and then the winner of it is the best player of the year."

That is not correct. The tournament does not "represent" that its winner is the best player of the year. The name of the event doesn't say that; it has never said or implied that. Moreover, moving the goalposts now by speculating about what people who know little or nothing about tennis might believe serves no purpose. They know little or nothing about tennis, so whatever they may think is irrelevant.
Click to expand...
Love of alcaraz is making people lose any sense of rational arguments. It's not their fault.

How can raz do anything wrong. He is born God. Not a single weakness.
 
Pheasant said:
That has been amazing that he hasn't won yet. A small part of me believes that he will no longer crumble at the finish line. However, I now think that the competition is too tough.

That said, I still think that he has a slam title in him. He's too good to go slamless. But he's going to need some draws to open up.
Click to expand...
Yes it's going to be harder now with two hurdles in Alcaraz and Sinner. 2020 was a wasted opportunity and this year against Alcaraz as well. He had a good chance in both matches. I wanted Thiem to win that USO but Zverev had the upper hand for most of it. To me, he has the game but mentally he hasn't been able to hold it together.
 
Alcaraz' strategy of protecting the H2H with Sinner is working, but man does he have to tank a lot of tournaments to do so.
 
Gazelle said:
Alcaraz' strategy of protecting the H2H with Sinner is working, but man does he have to tank a lot of tournaments to do so.
Click to expand...


That's a bit harsh... I don't think Alcaraz is intentionally trying to avoid Sinner. But this is exactly why H2H between 2 players aren't always representative when you must decide who is better. Zverev has a positive H2H against both Alcaraz and Sinner now, but I don't think anyone (including Zverev himself) would claim he is better. Djokovic winning the H2H against Fedal is just a bonus for him, his Goat status wouldn't be asterisked even if he they both had a positive H2H against him. Ymer retired with a 2-0 H2H against Alcaraz, but no one cares.

In IW Sinner was clearly injured in the last 2 sets, and this is literally Alcaraz's favorite hard court. The Beijing final is more significant on the other hand. This was a huge win for Alcaraz but at the end of the day it was just a 500. I hope there will be more Hard court matches between them next year (other than in IW). Let's see if Alcaraz can beat Sinner in Australia or faster HC Masters like Shanghaï Miami Paris or Cincinnati.
 
The TennisTV commentators are so much biased for Alcatraz it's mind boggling. "Zverev celebrates stealing the first set". Carlos lost this, Carlos won this, Carlos hit that, the quality of Carlos' stroke etc etc etc. OMG! Zverev was so lucky to be on the same court with the great Carlos. :notworthy:
 
Man, superb stuff from Sasha, to clinch his entry into the sf by dominating his group, without dropping a set. There currently seems to be a serenity in his approach, added to by the conviction/self belief that was missing for so long. Unfortunate when he was compromised by injury for so long, but kudos for the comittment / hard work put in to regain his best form/ranking. Most admirable. Good for the tour to have another player in form that can add some piquancy to the tour.

Carlitos showing glimpses of his incredible abilities, putting up a worthy contest, but was simply outplayed when it mattered. Given his being unwell / not able to play at his best, no surprise that the rampant Sasha beat him in straights. I have no concerns regarding his potential campaign in the coming season - dude looks grounded and confident despite the challenges faced, good to see.
 
Last edited:
Winner Sinner said:
Exactly = for Tsitsipas. ahahahaha

Alcaraz (3-0) and Tsitsipas (1-0) are the two best players of the season because they finished the season h2h ahead with the number 1 of 2024.
But... even the various Dimitrov, Draper, Humbert or Ruud can be considered the best of the season given that they ended the seasonal h2h ahead against the player who ended the seasonal h2h ahead number 1 of 2024.

In the meantime, write down the number 3920.
Click to expand...
That comparison is embarassing. Tsitsipas didn’t win 2 slams like Carlos did this year... Also one win compared to 3? One of which was at a slam? My gosh, know the difference. Don’t embarrass yourself.
 
Aussie Darcy said:
That comparison is embarassing. Tsitsipas didn’t win 2 slams like Carlos did this year... Also one win compared to 3? One of which was at a slam? My gosh, know the difference. Don’t embarrass yourself.
Click to expand...
So?

And Alcaraz didn't win 7 tournaments, he didn't always reach at least the QF in every tournament he played.
He didn't score 11,000 points in the rankings.
He didn't perform that well overall in the majors.
Oh god, you know what the difference is.

I understand that after today the frustration is even more accentuated.
It's not Sinner's fault if Alcaraz misses his appointment too often and gets eliminated so frequently.
You will see tomorrow against Ruud the real difference in solidity between the 2, what you have already seen with Dimitrov in Miami or Machac in Shanghai.
Sinner 2024 will not be eliminated by players such as Jarry, Dimitrov, Draper, Monfils, VdZ, Machac, Humbert or Ruud.
Get over it before your liver is permanently compromised by so much resentment.
 
Winner Sinner said:
So?

And Alcaraz didn't win 7 tournaments, he didn't always reach at least the QF in every tournament he played.
He didn't score 11,000 points in the rankings.
He didn't perform that well overall in the majors.
Oh god, you know what the difference is.

I understand that after today the frustration is even more accentuated.
It's not Sinner's fault if Alcaraz misses his appointment too often and gets eliminated so frequently.
You will see tomorrow against Ruud the real difference in solidity between the 2, what you have already seen with Dimitrov in Miami or Machac in Shanghai.
Sinner 2024 will not be eliminated by players such as Jarry, Dimitrov, Draper, Monfils, VdZ, Machac, Humbert or Ruud.
Get over it before your liver is permanently compromised by so much resentment.
Click to expand...
2 slams dude. He won 2 slams this year. Don’t come comparing Tsitsipas winning one match against Sinner and leading the H2H while Alcaraz won 3 matches including at a slam and also took home 2 slams. The comparison is embarrassing. Xx.
 
Aussie Darcy said:
2 slams dude. He won 2 slams this year. Don’t come comparing Tsitsipas winning one match against Sinner and leading the H2H while Alcaraz won 3 matches including at a slam and also took home 2 slams. The comparison is embarrassing. Xx.
Click to expand...
How embarrassing is it for those who try to convince themselves that Alcaraz's 2024 should be put on the same level (LOL), if not even on a higher level (double LOL) compared to Sinner's 2024, when the whole world knows that Sinner's 2024 season >>>>Alcaraz 2024 season.

And in any case nothing embarrassing in my examination, I was simply responding to those who maintain that Alcaraz, leading the seasonal h2h with Sinner, can be put on a higher level this year.
In doing so, Tsitsipas can also be considered as such.
There are not only h2hs in the comparison of a season.
Sinner in 2024 disintegrates Alcaraz in every aspect other than h2h.
Among other things, 3-0 is quite a lie considering each match is balanced.
Only 3 matches this season, the fault of Alcaraz who often missed the appointment.

Indeed, Sinner is number 1 in the world in 2024 which is now coming to an end, yet in the season he has only played 4 times in total against the current numbers 2 and 3 in the rankings (a very unusual figure), precisely due to the fact that both Zverev and Alcaraz they missed the possible appointment so much.
 
Winner Sinner said:
How embarrassing is it for those who try to convince themselves that Alcaraz's 2024 should be put on the same level (LOL), if not even on a higher level (double LOL) compared to Sinner's 2024, when the whole world knows that Sinner's 2024 season >>>>Alcaraz 2024 season.

And in any case nothing embarrassing in my examination, I was simply responding to those who maintain that Alcaraz, leading the seasonal h2h with Sinner, can be put on a higher level this year.
In doing so, Tsitsipas can also be considered as such.
There are not only h2hs in the comparison of a season.
Sinner in 2024 disintegrates Alcaraz in every aspect other than h2h.
Among other things, 3-0 is quite a lie considering each match is balanced.
Only 3 matches this season, the fault of Alcaraz who often missed the appointment.

Indeed, Sinner is number 1 in the world in 2024 which is now coming to an end, yet in the season he has only played 4 times in total against the current numbers 2 and 3 in the rankings (a very unusual figure), precisely due to the fact that both Zverev and Alcaraz they missed the possible appointment so much.
Click to expand...
Oh this is so cringe by you. I didn’t say here that his year was better than Sinners. I called out your embarrassing post comparing Alcaraz to Tsitsipas. Don’t you see how embarrassing that is now? Someone who won 2 slams and a Masters and a silver medal this year who lead his H2H against Sinner 3-0. But you tried to compare that to Tsitsipas who won basically nothing and won just 1 match.

Next time, do a better comparison. :) lol.
 
Winner Sinner said:
How embarrassing is it for those who try to convince themselves that Alcaraz's 2024 should be put on the same level (LOL), if not even on a higher level (double LOL) compared to Sinner's 2024, when the whole world knows that Sinner's 2024 season >>>>Alcaraz 2024 season.

And in any case nothing embarrassing in my examination, I was simply responding to those who maintain that Alcaraz, leading the seasonal h2h with Sinner, can be put on a higher level this year.
In doing so, Tsitsipas can also be considered as such.
There are not only h2hs in the comparison of a season.
Sinner in 2024 disintegrates Alcaraz in every aspect other than h2h.
Among other things, 3-0 is quite a lie considering each match is balanced.
Only 3 matches this season, the fault of Alcaraz who often missed the appointment.

Indeed, Sinner is number 1 in the world in 2024 which is now coming to an end, yet in the season he has only played 4 times in total against the current numbers 2 and 3 in the rankings (a very unusual figure), precisely due to the fact that both Zverev and Alcaraz they missed the possible appointment so much.
Click to expand...
I can do a thread and ask if people think Tsitsipas’s year was comparable to Alcaraz but I think you and I know both know the poll results for that one. It’d be similar to the one I did for Zverev’s year vs Alcaraz’s :) because everyone knows how good Alcaraz’s year has been but you won’t give him the credit. Channel slam and a Masters! And instead you embarrass yourself by comparing him to Tsitsipas of all people lmao. Come on, do better.
 
Aussie Darcy said:
I can do a thread and ask if people think Tsitsipas’s year was comparable to Alcaraz but I think you and I know both know the poll results for that one. It’d be similar to the one I did for Zverev’s year vs Alcaraz’s :) because everyone knows how good Alcaraz’s year has been but you won’t give him the credit. Channel slam and a Masters! And instead you embarrass yourself by comparing him to Tsitsipas of all people lmao. Come on, do better.
Click to expand...
I see you insist, but you've made a fool of yourself.
I only put Tsitsipas to perculate your usual delusional theses.

Aussie Darcy said:
He might not be the best player on the ATP paper but he's the better player against the so called best player ;)
Click to expand...

Ahahahah
 
Winner Sinner said:
I see you insist, but you've made a fool of yourself.
I only put Tsitsipas to perculate your usual delusional theses.



Ahahahah
Click to expand...
I stand by that quote. I didn’t say he’s the best player of the year, I said he’s the better player when he’s against the so called best player. And that’s true.

3-0 including at a slam.

Would you not say this year when it’s a match between Alcaraz and Sinner you’d rather be Alcaraz?

Reminder: 3-0.

Sinner doesn’t lost to nobodies like Alcaraz does. But he does lose to Alcaraz every time they play this year. That’s the difference. And 3 (including a 500 final and slam SF) is a bigger number than 1 like your silly Tsitsipas comparison lol.
 
Aussie Darcy said:
I stand by that quote. I didn’t say he’s the best player of the year, I said he’s the better player when he’s against the so called best player. And that’s true.

3-0 including at a slam.

Would you not say this year when it’s a match between Alcaraz and Sinner you’d rather be Alcaraz?

Reminder: 3-0.

Sinner doesn’t lost to nobodies like Alcaraz does. But he does lose to Alcaraz every time they play this year. That’s the difference. And 3 (including a 500 final and slam SF) is a bigger number than 1 like your silly Tsitsipas comparison lol.
Click to expand...
I repeat that in the end Dimitrov, Draper, VdZ, Humbert and Ruud, were the best players against the best player who played against the best player of the season.

Your reasoning doesn't make the slightest logical sense.
That quote of yours is embarrassingly superfluous.
 
Winner Sinner said:
I repeat that in the end Dimitrov, Draper, VdZ, Humbert and Ruud, were the best players against the best player who played against the best player of the season.

Your reasoning doesn't make the slightest logical sense.
That quote of yours is embarrassingly superfluous.
Click to expand...
With one win? Call me when any of those guys beat Alcaraz 3 times including at a slam SF and in a 500 final lmao.

Keep digging babe.

Now answer me. In a 2024 matchup of the 2 best players of the year who each won 2 slams aka Sinner and Alcaraz. Who would you rather be? The one who won 3 times? Or the one who lost every time? :) can you answer?
 
Aussie Darcy said:
With one win? Call me when any of those guys beat Alcaraz 3 times including at a slam SF and in a 500 final lmao.

Keep digging babe.

Now answer me. In a 2024 matchup of the 2 best players of the year who each won 2 slams aka Sinner and Alcaraz. Who would you rather be? The one who won 3 times? Or the one who lost every time? :) can you answer?
Click to expand...
The one who has 3920 points more than the other in the rankings, which could become almost 5000 if the one who has 3920 points more wins the ATP Finals.

But what the hell kind of question is that?

As if winning 3 out of 3 games guarantees you victory in the next challenge.
We are talking about 3 matches decided by the details where Alcaraz was at his maximum inspiration, when Sinner was at his maximum inspiration (Australian Open, Miami, US Open, Shanghai, Turin) Alcaraz in the meantime was eliminated early by missing the appointment.

In the end the only thing that matters is who was the best player of this 2024, and the unanimous answer is Sinner.
There is much more distance in this 2024 between Sinner and Alcaraz than between Alcaraz and Zverer.
So limit yourself to the comparison between Alcaraz and Zverev if you want to save what little reputation you still have on the subject.

PS
If Machac hadn't been injured during that match in Davis, maybe he would be up 2-0.
 
Aussie Darcy said:
With one win? Call me when any of those guys beat Alcaraz 3 times including at a slam SF and in a 500 final lmao.

Keep digging babe.

Now answer me. In a 2024 matchup of the 2 best players of the year who each won 2 slams aka Sinner and Alcaraz. Who would you rather be? The one who won 3 times? Or the one who lost every time? :) can you answer?
Click to expand...

absolute non sense, Sinner has dominated 2024, it is a fact, it is a ranking. He has won more titles, he has more points.
 
18 years later, there will be an American finalist in the deciding match of the ATP Finals.
:D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Winner Sinner
  • Poll Poll
ATP Finals 2024 - Turin
19 20 21
Replies
1K
Views
35K
JMR
J
mightyjeditribble
  • Poll Poll
Nitto ATP Finals 2025 - Turin
46 47 48
Replies
2K
Views
61K
tennis_pro
tennis_pro
D
  • Poll Poll
2021 ATP Finals Torino RR: [3] Alexander Zverev vs [7] Hubert Hurkacz
2
Replies
81
Views
5K
Aabye5
Aabye5
D
  • Poll Poll
2021 ATP Finals Torino SF: [1] Novak Djokovic vs [3] Alexander Zverev
19 20 21
Replies
1K
Views
40K
The Big Foe fan
The Big Foe fan
dking68
  • Poll Poll
2023 NITTO ATP FINALS TORINO
9 10 11
Replies
547
Views
28K
Aabye5
Aabye5
Back
Top