2024 Doubles talk

[sortof]

Krawietz/Puetz in straights and (probably?) through to the semis. Could watch only the 1st set, Krawietz on serve impeccable, while Puetz was facing break points again and again. Darn solid towards the end though. They have now beaten the pairings they have already downed at the USO.

 

[travlerajm]

Updated +/- stats in ATP finals thru 2 complete rounds on per-match basis. The only 3 under-30 NextGen players in the field occupy the top 3 spots of the leaderboard.

1. Purcell +6.5
2. Patten +5.5
2. Vavassori +5.5
4. Krawietz +4
5. Bolelli +3
6. Arévalo +1.5
6. Zeballos +1.5
8. Puetz +0.5
9. Heliovaara -1.5
9. Mektic -1.5
11. Pavic -2.5
12. Thompson -3.5
12. Koolhof -3.5
12. Granollers -3.5
15. Bopanna -5.5
16. Ebden -6.5

 

[Tallawah Tennis]

Couldn't watch the dubs on Wednesday, but expected Arevalo/Pavic to get through. Krawietz / Putz did well to get past the Italians in straights.

On Thursday, gooooooo my boys! and also Koolhof / Mektic.

 

[travlerajm]

Couldn't watch the dubs on Wednesday, but expected Arevalo/Pavic to get through. Krawietz / Putz did well to get past the Italians in straights.

On Thursday, gooooooo my boys! and also Koolhof / Mektic.

All 8 teams are still mathematically alive going into R3.

Oddsmakers favor P/T over G/Z, A/P over B/V, and K/P over B/E. Seems like they are afraid to post odds for H/P vs. K/M with reduced incentive for H/P.

 

[Winners or Errors]

Must not be paying attention. Didn't realize my favorite doubles player to watch, Koolhof, was retiring after this tournament. Some truly amazing things he did on the doubles court. He will be missed, at least by me.

 

[ey039524]

Must not be paying attention. Didn't realize my favorite doubles player to watch, Koolhof, was retiring after this tournament. Some truly amazing things he did on the doubles court. He will be missed, at least by me.

If you haven't, you should read his essay he wrote about his retirement:
https://www.atptour.com/en/news/koolhof-nitto-atp-finals-2024-my-point

I didn't understand why he was retiring when he seemed to be doing so well, but he makes a compelling argument.

 

[travlerajm]

If you haven't, you should read his essay he wrote about his retirement:
https://www.atptour.com/en/news/koolhof-nitto-atp-finals-2024-my-point

I didn't understand why he was retiring when he seemed to be doing so well, but he makes a compelling argument.

He decided this racquet was unworthy of playing the the last point of his career. I give his form on the smash a 10/10.

 

[travlerajm]

That match tiebreak between H/P and K/M was some fun, high-quality stuff. Usually when I see a lot of points won by receiving team in the match script, I expect it’s due to the servers imploding. But that wasn’t the case here. A lot of well-deserved points won with high-quality returns by both teams.

 

[travlerajm]

K/M become the first team to be eliminated from Turin.

And G/Z got the help they needed to stay alive, with a winner-advances match against P/T.

I will be rooting for G/Z to pull off the upset, only because I believe P/T are the most dangerous team in the field and a serious threat to bite my guys in a rematch.

 

[travlerajm]

Purcell/Thompson claim the second slot in the semis.

I’m pulling for A/P to eliminate B/V tomorrow.

 

[travlerajm]

In today’s match, Purcell finished +8, bringing up his +/- per match for the tourney to +7.0, tops in the field. Thompson was -4 today, roughly his avg for the tourney ( -3.7 ).

Jordan moves up to a new career high World #3.

But Max is clearly the doubles stud that drives their success. Would he be open to switching to ad as a dubs specialist sometime in the future?

 

[travlerajm]

I have this feeling, same as I had going into the week, that P/T are too good not to make the final here.

 

[ey039524]

Just watched the epic tb in the Aussies vs Spanish speakers match. Lots of nerves, double faults, missed opportunities, set points. Purcell is an emotional rollercoaster. He gets infuriated whenever they lose a point, no matter if he has no business winning it.

Then I watched the match TB of the first match. Koolhof broke his racquet on the penultimate point bc he missed a sitter volley that gave h/p match point #3, a two point switch that could've extended his career by a match or two. Nice ceremony for him afterward. He was one of my favorites since last year when he became #1. I was amazed at how good he was, despite being rather average in every way (size, movement, power), except in the smarts department, perhaps. I'm going to miss him next year.

I can't wait to see the new pairings. I imagine only around 3 of the top teams will stay together.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Good finish for Bopanna/Ebden to get a win on the board, and to do it over the best team so far who had already qualified for the SF's Krawietz/Putz.

 

[travlerajm]

Good finish for Bopanna/Ebden to get a win on the board, and to do it over the best team so far who had already qualified for the SF's Krawietz/Putz.

I expect krawietz/puetz run will come to an end in the semis. They are not in the same league as P/T.

 

[travlerajm]

I just watched the match tiebreak of B/E vs K/P.

The overall level seemed lower than any match I watched from the Mike Bryan group.

The outcome seemed to be mostly a case of regression to the mean, with the Australians recovering from their miserable play in the first 2 rounds, and the Germans coming back to earth after their pair of upset wins.

I would have preferred to face either of these two teams in the semi’s, as Pavic/Arévalo and Bolelli/Vavassori are both more dangerous.

 

[Tallawah Tennis]

In today’s match, Purcell finished +8, bringing up his +/- per match for the tourney to +7.0, tops in the field. Thompson was -4 today, roughly his avg for the tourney ( -3.7 ).

Jordan moves up to a new career high World #3.

But Max is clearly the doubles stud that drives their success. Would he be open to switching to ad as a dubs specialist sometime in the future?

Nice summary man. My boys looking good so far ...... hope it continues.

Bopanna / Ebden did well to get the win against K/P

If you haven't, you should read his essay he wrote about his retirement:
https://www.atptour.com/en/news/koolhof-nitto-atp-finals-2024-my-point

I didn't understand why he was retiring when he seemed to be doing so well, but he makes a compelling argument.

He's a cool dude, like him. Another piece by the ATP:

Wesley Koolhof honoured following final ATP match at Nitto ATP Finals | ATP Tour | Tennis

Wesley Koolhof and Nikola Mektic were eliminated from Nitto ATP Finals semi-final contention on Thursday when they lost a heartbreaking Match Tie-break to Harri Heliovaara and Henry Patten. The defeat had extra meaning for Koolhof, who played his final ATP Tour match.

www.atptour.com

A/P ending the year as number 1 seeds, excellent achievement. Both have done it before with other partners:

Marcelo Arevalo & Mate Pavic earn year-end No. 1 honours | ATP Tour | Tennis

Marcelo Arevalo and Mate Pavic have earned Year-End ATP Doubles No. 1 presented by PIF honours as a team for the first time. Pavic had achieved the feat on three previous occasions with three different partners. Arevalo is part of the year-end No. 1 duo for the first time.

www.atptour.com

 

[Tallawah Tennis]

He decided this racquet was unworthy of playing the the last point of his career. I give his form on the smash a 10/10....

Heh, heh, I concur! 'Do not go gentle into that good night .... rage, rage....'

 

[travlerajm]

My boys will take on newly minted Year-End #1 team Arevalo/Pavic in the knockout round.

Pavic hasn’t looked his best this week, with surprisingly shaky volley play, but as a 4-time year-end #1 with 4 different partners and 7-time slam champ, he’s a certified big-match player, and Arevalo is his most solid regular partner yet.

I haven’t watched today’s QF match they played vs. the Italians, but the 10-3 super score is scary and indicates that this is a team that must be killed off in straights before ireaching the 70-minute mark.

 

[travlerajm]

This was the first surprising result of the tourney for me.

Purcell and Thompson played their worst tennis at the worst time, down the stretch of the super.

I tuned in watching with them still leading 7-6. But the Germans were mostly stable, and the Aussies looking out of sorts. Match finished with Purcell letting a short central chip lob return bounce (a mental miscue when it deserved a smash) and exacerbated it by a sending meek inside-out forehand into the bottom the net unforced.

 

[Tallawah Tennis]

Damn & blast! Man, you have got to be kidding me! My boys up a set and a break, and then error prone as K/P found momentum in the 2ns and a frustrated M/P led to the loss of the 2nd. Well ahead again in the decider, they squandered away the lead to lose it 9/11.
All K/P had to do was to stay focused, and T/P imploded sufficiently to help them win.
Somehow feels worse when it was this close. All said and done, an exciting match to the end, could have gone either way. Anyway, K/P kept belief and were rewarded.

This was the first surprising result of the tourney for me.

Purcell and Thompson played their worst tennis at the worst time, down the stretch of the super.

I tuned in watching with them still leading 7-6. But the Germans were mostly stable, and the Aussies looking out of sorts. Match finished with Purcell letting a short central chip lob return bounce (a mental miscue when it deserved a smash) and exacerbated it by a sending meek inside-out forehand into the bottom the net unforced.

Yah man, you said it. Dudes let themselves down. MP, was particulary error prone. Supporting HP/HH in the next sf.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Wow.

Purcell/Thompson led 6-2 2-0 and lost. That's some Simona Halep French Open final level choking.

And they led 4-1 in the 3rd set breaker and also 7-5.

Yikes.

 

[travlerajm]

Purcell/Thompson finished +8 combined for the match, with Purcell putting up a double-digit stat line. But the match tiebreak format is unforgiving if you don’t finish strong.

 

[Tallawah Tennis]

Purcell/Thompson finished +8 combined for the match, with Purcell putting up a double-digit stat line. But the match tiebreak format is unforgiving if you don’t finish strong.

True man, but could be said of tb's generally. A point made / error here or there, and your goose is cooked as was the case in this sf. Close matches are exciting to watch but must be heartbreaking for the losers. JT/MP have had an excellent year so should be pleased with their season overall.

A summarry:

Krawietz Puetz Purcell Thompson Nitto ATP Finals 2024 Saturday | Nitto ATP Finals | Tennis

Eighth seeds first German team to reach final in tournament history (55 years)

www.nittoatpfinals.com

 

[ey039524]

Did anyone notice the ability to challenge via video replay? I saw the Aussies challenge if someone (maybe Ebden/Bopanna?) reached over the net (they didn't). Cool new feature, if enacted for wide use. Granollers/zeballos would have a wimby title to their careers, had this existed a couple of years ago.

 

[travlerajm]

Last minute movement on the betting line on sofascore for the second semi.

Arévalo/Pavic opened as 54% favorites, but it shifted in the last hour to a pick’em.

I like this, as these late shifts usually reflect the sharp money coming in.

 

[travlerajm]

Abysmal start.

 

[travlerajm]

A/P have played lights out today and higher level than their RR matches. Looking like the #1 team today.

H/P level hasn’t been so good. Hanging on by a fingernail…

 

[travlerajm]

A/P played lights out entire way and deserved it.

 

[travlerajm]

HP wasn’t at his best today. Going into this match, he trailed only Purcell in +/- for the tourney. But something was off from the start today, ending with a -9. Not quite enough against the World #1s playing up to their slam winning level.

Still proud of the way he finished off the season with a fun run to the knockout round of Turin, especially to climb out of the rough start to the year.

 

[R2D2 Lobs]

My boys will take on newly minted Year-End #1 team Arevalo/Pavic in the knockout round.

Pavic hasn’t looked his best this week, with surprisingly shaky volley play, but as a 4-time year-end #1 with 4 different partners and 7-time slam champ, he’s a certified big-match player, and Arevalo is his most solid regular partner yet.

I haven’t watched today’s QF match they played vs. the Italians, but the 10-3 super score is scary and indicates that this is a team that must be killed off in straights before ireaching the 70-minute mark.

 

[Tallawah Tennis]

HP wasn’t at his best today. Going into this match, he trailed only Purcell in +/- for the tourney. But something was off from the start today, ending with a -9. Not quite enough against the World #1s playing up to their slam winning level.

Still proud of the way he finished off the season with a fun run to the knockout round of Turin, especially to climb out of the rough start to the year.

Your boys fought - down in the first set and forcing the tb, and talking the 2nd to a tb too. P/A difficult to shake off, anticipating that they'll win it.

 

[travlerajm]

pairings to start 2025:

Mektic/Venus
Ebden/Vliegen
Skupski/Salisbury
Nys/Roger-Vasselin
Zielinski/Gille
Dodig/Mansouri
Palvacek/Rojer
Erler/Mies
S.Gonzalez/Miedler
Heliovaara/Patten
Cash/Glasspool

Biggest surprise is the divorce of the Belgian pair after more than a decade together.

S/S somehow seems hard to envision their games meshing right, might not last long. G/Z is interesting because Gille seems such a cerebral player who could elevate Zielinski. M/D is intriguing as the Tunisian has a big physicality to pair with Dodig’s slam winning veteran pedigree. C/G are positioned well to make a jump up the rankings.

Looking forward to 2025!

 

[Seth]

pairings to start 2025:

Mektic/Venus
Ebden/Vliegen
Skupski/Salisbury
Nys/Roger-Vasselin
Zielinski/Gille
Dodig/Mansouri
Palvacek/Rojer
Erler/Mies
S.Gonzalez/Miedler
Heliovaara/Patten
Cash/Glasspool

Biggest surprise is the divorce of the Belgian pair after more than a decade together.

S/S somehow seems hard to envision their games meshing right, might not last long. G/Z is interesting because Gille seems such a cerebral player who could elevate Zielinski.
M/D is intriguing as the Tunisian has a big physicality to pair with Dodig’s slam winning veteran pedigree. C/G are positioned well to make a jump up the rankings.

Looking forward to 2025!

Where do you get this info? I agree on the Belgians. Weren’t they seeing more success in 2024?

Really glad to see Skupski and Salisbury. They could be a real force.

 

[travlerajm]

Where do you get this info? I agree on the Belgians. Weren’t they seeing more success in 2024?

Really glad to see Skupski and Salisbury. They could be a real force.

Belgians made a slam final in 2023, annd dropped back in 2024 and so maybe felt that was their ceiling together.

Skupski and Salisbury are both physical beasts, but their styles of play seem like a mismatch. Maybe I’ll be wrong.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

pairings to start 2025:

Mektic/Venus
Ebden/Vliegen
Skupski/Salisbury
Nys/Roger-Vasselin
Zielinski/Gille
Dodig/Mansouri
Palvacek/Rojer
Erler/Mies
S.Gonzalez/Miedler
Heliovaara/Patten
Cash/Glasspool

Biggest surprise is the divorce of the Belgian pair after more than a decade together.

S/S somehow seems hard to envision their games meshing right, might not last long. G/Z is interesting because Gille seems such a cerebral player who could elevate Zielinski. M/D is intriguing as the Tunisian has a big physicality to pair with Dodig’s slam winning veteran pedigree. C/G are positioned well to make a jump up the rankings.

Looking forward to 2025!

Googled the Ebden/Vliegen pairing and found an article on reddit which echoes the same partnering but says that it's actually Bopanna partnering with Dodig? Which makes more sense since they partnered in the Asian swing together and played many times before in their career including a Masters final in 2017

Also found this article saying Bopanna will reunite with Dodig?

Rohan Bopanna Parts Ways With Matthew Ebden, To Pair Up Again With Ex-Partner Ivan Dodig | Tennis News

Bopanna and Ebden won the Australian Open in 2024.

sports.ndtv.com

 

[Winners or Errors]

And the Germans won! Yes!

 

[sortof]

Congrats to Krawietz/Puetz! H2H they were at 4:2 against Arevalo/Pavic before the final - all encounters played in 2024 - and they confirmed that they tend to do well against them.

 

[travlerajm]

I’ll admit I was wrong. I expected both finalists might come from the Mike Bryan Group, but the Bob Bryan group reps stepped up their level in the knockout rounds.

 

[AM75]

As with the WTA Finals, a really exciting doubles tournament, much better and far more spectacular than the singles' one.

 

[Tallawah Tennis]

I’ll admit I was wrong. I expected both finalists might come from the Mike Bryan Group, but the Bob Bryan group reps stepped up their level in the knockout rounds.

Add me to that expectation, man - P/A have looked the more incisive, so understandable. Close match, entertaining. Well done to P/K for prevailing. P/A have ended on a high too with the year end top ranking.

Krawietz Puetz Arevalo Pavic Nitto ATP Finals 2024 Sunday | Nitto ATP Finals | Tennis

Eighth seeds become lowest-ranked team to succeed at Nitto ATP Finals

www.nittoatpfinals.com

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Pretty funny the only team to beat Krawietz/Putz is arguably the worst team of the tournament in Ebden/Bopanna lol. (I know Granollers/Zeballos lost all 3 of their matches but they were closer and better).

 

[Tallawah Tennis]

Koolhof was superb in the DC quarters, played with Van de Zandschulp. They outplayed Alcaraz / Granollers in front of the Spanish home crowd, to capitalise their chances when needed, and take the Netherlands through. WK lives on to fight again in his last event.

 

[socallefty]

Koolhof was superb in the DC quarters, played with Van de Zandschulp. They outplayed Alcaraz / Granollers in front of the Spanish home crowd, to capitalise their chances when needed, and take the Netherlands through. WK lives on to fight again in his last event.

Koolhof should play mixed doubles with his fiancée Julia Georges.

 

[ey039524]

I remember her having a big serve.

 

[spystud]

That is a name I have not thought of in a minute. She was/assume still is smoking hot.

Always thought her career would take off after winning Stuttgart whatever year that was, didn't happen.

 

[travlerajm]

I watched the Spain-Ned match.

Koolhof was clearly best player on the court.

Granollers was surprisingly weak as the server’s partner when not helped out by Zeballos’ big lefty serve. They couldn’t win 2nd serve points on Carlos’ serve with Carlos staying back and ceding the net.

Carlos was decent but not great as a netman in doubles. He has the arm muscle and made a couple of nifty volleys but got caught out of position too far from the net a few times.

Botic held his own, with Koolhof’s net play helping him hold. Koolio was only one on the court with experienced dunking skillz.

 

[Tallawah Tennis]

I watched the Spain-Ned match.

Koolhof was clearly best player on the court.

Granollers was surprisingly weak as the server’s partner when not helped out by Zeballos’ big lefty serve. They couldn’t win 2nd serve points on Carlos’ serve with Carlos staying back and ceding the net.

Carlos was decent but not great as a netman in doubles. He has the arm muscle and made a couple of nifty volleys but got caught out of position too far from the net a few times.

Botic held his own, with Koolhof’s net play helping him hold. Koolio was only one on the court with experienced dunking skillz.

Interesting observations as usual, man. The poise and incisiveness shown by Koolhof was very impressive, and I agree-best player on court. With WK at his side, BVdZ just had to keep in play / serve well and he did it, unlike MG, who was weak and frankly let the side down. Carlitos isn't a doubles player and needed that support. Anyway, the better doubles team won, well deserved. Wish WK could keep going and Neterlands can somehow win it. He's my favourite remaining player in all the teams - singles or doubles with the heart and composure he has shown and because it is his farewell from the tour. Sentimental fluff, sure, but there it is!

I remember her having a big serve.

Heh, heh. Good player, sure. Confess I remember more than just that.

WK/JG ( don't know when taken):

 

[ey039524]

I wish they put in Rafa in dubs. He's a very underrated dubs player. Alcaraz has the fame (now), but he's not nearly as good of a dubs player. I know I've been saying this since last year, but Koolhof is retiring while he's still one of the best in the world.

 

[ey039524]

Well, I didn't think a dubs player like Bob Bryan would make the same mistake as Mardy Fish, but here we are again: the US is out of Davis Cup b/c he decided to play Tommy Paul (!?) instead of Ram. Now Paul has ousted the US twice in Davis Cup, after he disparaged dubs players. Great choice!