Rovesciarete
Hall of Fame
Lorenzo has a good return. Clay and weak serve push his forehand numbers. He needs time to unload and plays thus quite deep. His backhand holds up pretty well for a one-hander!
22-and-unders (outside of Alcaraz) Which players are you highest on?
- Thread starter RaulRamirez
- Start date
Lorenzo has a good return. Clay and weak serve push his forehand numbers. He needs time to unload and plays thus quite deep. His backhand holds up pretty well for a one-hander!
Dane_is_Finnish_OJ
Hall of Fame
Never pick the French guys. They never really live up to anything.
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Rovesciarete
Hall of Fame
Yeah the 1-3 and 7+ numbers stand out for me. Many talented youngsters struggle in the shortest points, big young servers in the longer ones. Other guys with very short average lengths, like the two Czechs win only few points past 7 but the Brazilian dominates there...
His forehand got some clay bonus but only Nadal and Alcaraz might have had a similar potency at such an age, given decent ATP sample size.
Rovesciarete
Hall of Fame
To put things into Elotext. Included most players under 24 for better reference. Strong presence among the top 50.
Beside the obvious Alcaraz Fonseca really stands out again. Was briefly even top 20 but that first round lost in front of the home crowd cost dearly. Musetti, Mensik, Shang and Rune are examples of young players well below their Elo peak. They tend to fluctuate more.
Joao might be the only one able to get close to that early peak of Carlos, a 2239 point haul with roughly 20 years was crazy. Below twenty I'm highest about Fonseca and then Mensik, as I expect much movement improvement from the latter.
Need more data on the young Americans Tien and Basa.
Draper is moving up nicely, 5th overvalues him likely but he plays like a top 10. Clay should lower his level and ranking,
Beside the obvious Alcaraz Fonseca really stands out again. Was briefly even top 20 but that first round lost in front of the home crowd cost dearly. Musetti, Mensik, Shang and Rune are examples of young players well below their Elo peak. They tend to fluctuate more.
Joao might be the only one able to get close to that early peak of Carlos, a 2239 point haul with roughly 20 years was crazy. Below twenty I'm highest about Fonseca and then Mensik, as I expect much movement improvement from the latter.
Need more data on the young Americans Tien and Basa.
| Updated weekly(ish). Last update: 2025-02-24 |
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Draper is moving up nicely, 5th overvalues him likely but he plays like a top 10. Clay should lower his level and ranking,
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Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
Federico Cinà tames Sultanov and the wind: victory at the Hersonissos Challenger and access to the quarterfinals
Federico Cinà continues his splendid adventure at the Hersonissos Challenger, overcoming the much more highly rated Khumoyun Sultanov (n.218 ATP) in the second round with a score of 7-6(3), 6-0. A great performance for the young Italian, number 557 in the world ranking, who thus accesses the quarterfinals where he will challenge one between Gengel (seeded n.5) and Kirkin.
The peculiarity of the match was the strong presence of the wind, which significantly affected the game of both tennis players. However, Cinà demonstrated a notable ability to adapt to the difficult weather conditions, managing to manage the gusts that swept the Greek courts better than his opponent.
The first set was extremely hard-fought and characterized by numerous breaks from both sides. The battle lasted for 1 hour and 12 minutes, with the two players continuously exchanging advantages. Cinà obtained the first break at 1-1, but Sultanov immediately responded by breaking the Italian's serve. The set continued with this up-and-down trend: the Italian returned ahead at 5-2 with two breaks, but was again hit by his opponent who scored a series of three consecutive games to bring the score to 5-5.
At the decisive moment, however, Cinà showed greater lucidity, obtaining a new break at 5-5 and then, after having once again given up his serve, he clearly imposed himself in the tie-break by 7-3, where he was able to better manage the difficult wind conditions.
The second set was a true monologue by the Italian, who completely dominated a Sultanov who appeared demoralized and unable to adapt to the gusts of wind. Cinà in fact strung together six consecutive games, conceding very few points to his opponent and closing the set with a peremptory 6-0 in just 24 minutes.
The ability to adapt shown by Cinà to the difficult playing conditions was the key to victory. While Sultanov appeared increasingly frustrated and unable to find effective countermeasures, the Italian intelligently modified his tennis, reducing the risks and finding the right measure in his shots to counteract the effect of the wind.
This victory represents a very prestigious result for the young Italian tennis player, who beats an opponent ranked well over 300 positions higher in the world ranking. The success projects him to the quarterfinals of the Challenger, where he will have the opportunity to measure himself against another high-level opponent to continue his run in the Greek tournament and earn precious ATP points.
Federico Cinà continues his splendid adventure at the Hersonissos Challenger, overcoming the much more highly rated Khumoyun Sultanov (n.218 ATP) in the second round with a score of 7-6(3), 6-0. A great performance for the young Italian, number 557 in the world ranking, who thus accesses the quarterfinals where he will challenge one between Gengel (seeded n.5) and Kirkin.
The peculiarity of the match was the strong presence of the wind, which significantly affected the game of both tennis players. However, Cinà demonstrated a notable ability to adapt to the difficult weather conditions, managing to manage the gusts that swept the Greek courts better than his opponent.
The first set was extremely hard-fought and characterized by numerous breaks from both sides. The battle lasted for 1 hour and 12 minutes, with the two players continuously exchanging advantages. Cinà obtained the first break at 1-1, but Sultanov immediately responded by breaking the Italian's serve. The set continued with this up-and-down trend: the Italian returned ahead at 5-2 with two breaks, but was again hit by his opponent who scored a series of three consecutive games to bring the score to 5-5.
At the decisive moment, however, Cinà showed greater lucidity, obtaining a new break at 5-5 and then, after having once again given up his serve, he clearly imposed himself in the tie-break by 7-3, where he was able to better manage the difficult wind conditions.
The second set was a true monologue by the Italian, who completely dominated a Sultanov who appeared demoralized and unable to adapt to the gusts of wind. Cinà in fact strung together six consecutive games, conceding very few points to his opponent and closing the set with a peremptory 6-0 in just 24 minutes.
The ability to adapt shown by Cinà to the difficult playing conditions was the key to victory. While Sultanov appeared increasingly frustrated and unable to find effective countermeasures, the Italian intelligently modified his tennis, reducing the risks and finding the right measure in his shots to counteract the effect of the wind.
This victory represents a very prestigious result for the young Italian tennis player, who beats an opponent ranked well over 300 positions higher in the world ranking. The success projects him to the quarterfinals of the Challenger, where he will have the opportunity to measure himself against another high-level opponent to continue his run in the Greek tournament and earn precious ATP points.
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Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
The first semifinal reached in a Challenger for Cinà has arrived after beating the Turkish Kirkin (number 300 ATP) 7-5 6-4.
I always remember that Cinà in the 2023 edition of the US Open juniors was the player who most questioned Fonseca's triumph (one year older).
I always remember that Cinà in the 2023 edition of the US Open juniors was the player who most questioned Fonseca's triumph (one year older).
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
Federico Cinà reaches his first career Challenger semifinal in Hersonissos
Federico Cinà, number 557 in the ATP ranking, has reached his first career Challenger semifinal in the tournament in Hersonissos, Greece. The young Italian tennis player defeated the Turkish player Ergi Kirkin, number 300 in the world, in the quarterfinals with a score of 7-5, 6-4 in a hard-fought match.
In the first set, the Italian started well, gaining a break advantage, but suffered the opponent's comeback in the sixth game that brought the situation back to parity. At 5-5, however, Cinà made the decisive move, breaking Kirkin again also thanks to two double faults committed by the Turk at a crucial moment, and thus closing the set at 7-5.
The second set saw Cinà start even better, flying to 4-1 with two breaks advantage. A lapse in the sixth game allowed Kirkin to recover one of the two breaks, but the Italian was not intimidated. In his last two service games, Federico conceded only three points to his opponent, holding his serve with authority. At 5-3 and Kirkin serving, Cinà also had two match points that he was unable to exploit, but then definitively closed the match at 6-4 in the next game.
This victory represents a significant milestone in the young career of Cinà, who for the first time has reached the semifinals of a Challenger tournament. His next opponent will be the tournament's number 2 seed, Russian Aslan Karatsev, in what promises to be a very demanding but stimulating challenge for the Italian tennis player.
Now against Karatsev the bar is raised exponentially.
Federico Cinà, number 557 in the ATP ranking, has reached his first career Challenger semifinal in the tournament in Hersonissos, Greece. The young Italian tennis player defeated the Turkish player Ergi Kirkin, number 300 in the world, in the quarterfinals with a score of 7-5, 6-4 in a hard-fought match.
In the first set, the Italian started well, gaining a break advantage, but suffered the opponent's comeback in the sixth game that brought the situation back to parity. At 5-5, however, Cinà made the decisive move, breaking Kirkin again also thanks to two double faults committed by the Turk at a crucial moment, and thus closing the set at 7-5.
The second set saw Cinà start even better, flying to 4-1 with two breaks advantage. A lapse in the sixth game allowed Kirkin to recover one of the two breaks, but the Italian was not intimidated. In his last two service games, Federico conceded only three points to his opponent, holding his serve with authority. At 5-3 and Kirkin serving, Cinà also had two match points that he was unable to exploit, but then definitively closed the match at 6-4 in the next game.
This victory represents a significant milestone in the young career of Cinà, who for the first time has reached the semifinals of a Challenger tournament. His next opponent will be the tournament's number 2 seed, Russian Aslan Karatsev, in what promises to be a very demanding but stimulating challenge for the Italian tennis player.
Now against Karatsev the bar is raised exponentially.
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
And the first Challenger final also arrives for Cinà after beating Karatsev 6-4 6-2.
So he reaches the final act without having conceded any sets so far.
Super reactive feet, solid backhand, worked forehand, incisive return, excellent manual skills (in the last game he closed two points at the net of fine workmanship).
In a few days he will turn 18, but before that he can already win his first Challenger of his career.
Jannik Sinner Bergamo 2019 vibes.
@Rovesciarete
So he reaches the final act without having conceded any sets so far.
Super reactive feet, solid backhand, worked forehand, incisive return, excellent manual skills (in the last game he closed two points at the net of fine workmanship).
In a few days he will turn 18, but before that he can already win his first Challenger of his career.
Jannik Sinner Bergamo 2019 vibes.
@Rovesciarete
GRASScaraz
Hall of Fame
Massive win
Rovesciarete
Hall of Fame
Will have to watch him more, I'm still unsure about what to think. Great milestone though.
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
Unfortunately, the young Cinà did not manage to win his first Challenger final.
He lost 6-4 6-2 against the more experienced Bulgarian Kezmanov.
In the first set he had his chances but he was unable to capitalize on them (only 1/7 the break points ratio).
Today all his main limitations in service came to the surface, in some cases as in the decisive tenth game that handed the first set to the Bulgarian, the first serve of the young Italian tennis player seemed like a throw-in, even the strong wind from this point of view did not help.
However, I liked his reaction in the last game where he cancelled 3 match points before definitively abdicating on the fourth attempt.
Now on to the 1000 in Miami where he will have a wild card, a very formative experience, after a week like this that allowed him to make a significant leap in the rankings.
The physical and technical talent of the boy is indisputable.
He lost 6-4 6-2 against the more experienced Bulgarian Kezmanov.
In the first set he had his chances but he was unable to capitalize on them (only 1/7 the break points ratio).
Today all his main limitations in service came to the surface, in some cases as in the decisive tenth game that handed the first set to the Bulgarian, the first serve of the young Italian tennis player seemed like a throw-in, even the strong wind from this point of view did not help.
However, I liked his reaction in the last game where he cancelled 3 match points before definitively abdicating on the fourth attempt.
Now on to the 1000 in Miami where he will have a wild card, a very formative experience, after a week like this that allowed him to make a significant leap in the rankings.
The physical and technical talent of the boy is indisputable.
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
He beat him despite the fact that at 5-3 in the second set, when he went to serve for the match he began to suffer from cramps that from that moment limited his movements.
A masterly performance.
From a technical point of view, he already has a very solid game for his age.
A superfine talent whose growth in the midst of the boom of Italian tennis, therefore free from excessive pressure, will only help him in this phase of development.
6/7 years ago it would have been different, that is, in a historical phase in which Italian tennis was still waiting with excessive emphasis for a high-level tennis player.
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
Ranking a few days before turning 18 of the 3 most precocious Italian talents;
Sinner 135°
Musetti 286°
Cinà 369°
@Rovesciarete
Sinner 135°
Musetti 286°
Cinà 369°
@Rovesciarete
Rovesciarete
Hall of Fame
Fede is playing great, very maturely. I have watched a bit and have not seen the big intangible like the easy power of Sinner.
Will reserve my judgement for another couple of months. Still very happ to see a young fellow doing so well!
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
Yes, the firepower that the teenage Sinner had does not belong to Cinà.
The aspect that most unites them at the same age, in addition to a backhand with which they do what they want, is their attitude to the game.
Cinà, like the teenage Sinner, seems to me to be a cold player but at the same time never giving up.
However, the thing to note is that current Italian tennis is demonstrating that talents potentially of high international level can emerge at both ends of the peninsula, from Alto Adige to Sicily.
Cinà is also the son of both parents who played tennis, his father was Roberta Vinci's coach.
Federico called "Pallino" predestined to tennis since "birth", has already experienced some dynamics of the professional circuit, and above all given his family background he is a player already disciplined to the game.
Daniel Andrade
Hall of Fame
To think Fonseca is already 60 in the world...
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
Fonseca was number 167 a few days before turning 18.
Let's say he has made further giant steps in the meantime.
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
Cinà, head and talent. Joins the “club” of under 18s victorious in a Masters 1000
Federico Cinà’s victory at the Miami Masters 1000 was a beautiful and very welcome surprise, and at the same time confirmation of how much talent and potential the young Sicilian has. His game was appreciated, how he conducted the match from a technical and competitive point of view, always lucid and ready to make the right choice. He was even more convincing for how, faced with a significant physical difficulty at the moment of closing the match (cramps), he found the strength to resist, not to get caught up in sporting panic and thus throw away a match that really did not deserve to end with a defeat. He climbed to the tiebreak clinging to the match with his nails and there he played like a true player, choosing his shots well and thus going on to give himself the most important victory of his nascent career.
In Federico, Italian tennis has found a very good boy, raised on “bread and tennis” in a family that knows the discipline in depth. Strengthened by this fundamental experience to choose well what to do and avoid what NOT to do, Cinà was accompanied with a firm hand in his steps towards the Pro tour, and so his talent was supported impeccably. Really well done, everyone.
Now let's go easy on the big headlines "We have the new Sinner", "Not even Jannik like him at his age" and the like, because... it would be exaggerated. A talented boy who wants to get to the top must be ambitious, must not be afraid of flying and must be able to handle the pressure because when the level rises only with this toughness of character can you swim in an ocean infested by real predators... but every young person has his own times and ways to grow. Let's not make the mistake of placing exaggerated expectations on him and let's give him time to grow, make mistakes and learn. The potential is excellent, the attitude is excellent, there is room to strengthen the physique - indispensable, in its time - and the shots are in abundance. The ingredients to do well are there indeed.
Great satisfaction and also a small record of precocity for “Pallino”: he is the first born in 2007 to win a match in a Masters 1000. But there is also another very intriguing club that Cinà has entered: that of the under 18s capable of winning a match in a tournament of this category (since the ATPtour was born in 1990). There are fifteen who have succeeded, including Jannik Sinner and many precocious talents who later became champions. Here is the list;
Fabrice Santoro – Toronto 1990
Marcos Ondruska – Cincinnati 1990
David Witt – Miami 1991
Dinu Pescariu – Monte Carlo 1991
Andy Roddick – Miami 2000
Richard Gasquet – Monte Carlo 2002 (the Frenchman had not yet turned 16!)
Rafael Nadal – Monte Carlo 2003 (the Spaniard had not yet turned 17)
Ryan Harrison – Indian Wells 2010
Andrey Rublev – Miami 2015
Alexander Zverev – Miami 2015
Denis Shapovalov – Toronto 2016
Felix Auger-Aliassime – Indian Wells 2018
Jannik Sinner – Rome 2019
Carlos Alcaraz – Madrid 2021
Joao Fonseca – Madrid 2024
Federico Cinà – Miami 2025
In addition to this exclusive club, Cinà is also the second youngest Italian to win a match in a Masters 1000. In front of him is Jannik Sinner: our n.1 did it at 17 years and 8 months in Rome 2019. Federico Cinà follows him with his 17 years and 11 months in Miami 2025. The third youngest was Lorenzo Musetti (18 years and 6 months), then Luca Nardi (19 years and 8 months) and then Andrea Gaudenzi, current President of the ATP, at 19 years and 9 months. Under twenty years we also find Stefano Pescosolido (19 years and 11 months) up to the precise 20 of Renzo Furlan. “Pallino” is in excellent company, Bravo!
Federico Cinà’s victory at the Miami Masters 1000 was a beautiful and very welcome surprise, and at the same time confirmation of how much talent and potential the young Sicilian has. His game was appreciated, how he conducted the match from a technical and competitive point of view, always lucid and ready to make the right choice. He was even more convincing for how, faced with a significant physical difficulty at the moment of closing the match (cramps), he found the strength to resist, not to get caught up in sporting panic and thus throw away a match that really did not deserve to end with a defeat. He climbed to the tiebreak clinging to the match with his nails and there he played like a true player, choosing his shots well and thus going on to give himself the most important victory of his nascent career.
In Federico, Italian tennis has found a very good boy, raised on “bread and tennis” in a family that knows the discipline in depth. Strengthened by this fundamental experience to choose well what to do and avoid what NOT to do, Cinà was accompanied with a firm hand in his steps towards the Pro tour, and so his talent was supported impeccably. Really well done, everyone.
Now let's go easy on the big headlines "We have the new Sinner", "Not even Jannik like him at his age" and the like, because... it would be exaggerated. A talented boy who wants to get to the top must be ambitious, must not be afraid of flying and must be able to handle the pressure because when the level rises only with this toughness of character can you swim in an ocean infested by real predators... but every young person has his own times and ways to grow. Let's not make the mistake of placing exaggerated expectations on him and let's give him time to grow, make mistakes and learn. The potential is excellent, the attitude is excellent, there is room to strengthen the physique - indispensable, in its time - and the shots are in abundance. The ingredients to do well are there indeed.
Great satisfaction and also a small record of precocity for “Pallino”: he is the first born in 2007 to win a match in a Masters 1000. But there is also another very intriguing club that Cinà has entered: that of the under 18s capable of winning a match in a tournament of this category (since the ATPtour was born in 1990). There are fifteen who have succeeded, including Jannik Sinner and many precocious talents who later became champions. Here is the list;
Fabrice Santoro – Toronto 1990
Marcos Ondruska – Cincinnati 1990
David Witt – Miami 1991
Dinu Pescariu – Monte Carlo 1991
Andy Roddick – Miami 2000
Richard Gasquet – Monte Carlo 2002 (the Frenchman had not yet turned 16!)
Rafael Nadal – Monte Carlo 2003 (the Spaniard had not yet turned 17)
Ryan Harrison – Indian Wells 2010
Andrey Rublev – Miami 2015
Alexander Zverev – Miami 2015
Denis Shapovalov – Toronto 2016
Felix Auger-Aliassime – Indian Wells 2018
Jannik Sinner – Rome 2019
Carlos Alcaraz – Madrid 2021
Joao Fonseca – Madrid 2024
Federico Cinà – Miami 2025
In addition to this exclusive club, Cinà is also the second youngest Italian to win a match in a Masters 1000. In front of him is Jannik Sinner: our n.1 did it at 17 years and 8 months in Rome 2019. Federico Cinà follows him with his 17 years and 11 months in Miami 2025. The third youngest was Lorenzo Musetti (18 years and 6 months), then Luca Nardi (19 years and 8 months) and then Andrea Gaudenzi, current President of the ATP, at 19 years and 9 months. Under twenty years we also find Stefano Pescosolido (19 years and 11 months) up to the precise 20 of Renzo Furlan. “Pallino” is in excellent company, Bravo!
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
Another very good boy.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
First two on this list won the first 2 masters of the year. Third pick was Fonseca
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
Jacopo Vasamì, Italian born in 2007, after winning his first match at Challenger level (Monza), also wins the second (consecutive) beating none other than the Spaniard Landaluce.
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
Êtes-vous sûr?
GRASScaraz
Hall of Fame
TennisGrandpA
Semi-Pro
None
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
Why do you want to be so cruel?
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