25 Most Iconic Athletes in the History of Sports
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Inanimate_object
Hall of Fame
Not going to argue with that. And yet Lance Armstrong is still arguably a bigger sports icon than anyone on that list. He almost single-handedly brought back to light the issue of wide-spread illegal substance abuse, the growth of sophistication for doping rings, how inadequate WADA and VADA testing agencies have become, and complicit behaviour within sports institutions, media and athletes. He is a poster boy for the doper. THAT is as iconic as Bo Knows and Jordan Air.
He's freaking Citizen Kane.
Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
But saying "Jordon Air" is like saying "Kane Citizen"
You are right about his becoming a symbol of cheating though.
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Nathaniel_Near
Guest
Gary, this might take some effort, but I'm asking you to give a general impression of how it felt to live through Laver's, Borg's and Federer's time and to relate it somewhat to how they became icons for the sport of tennis. Similarities and differences.. unique angles.. whatever else.
The Green Mile
Bionic Poster
Nope, never. The only sports I follow are Tennis and Rugby (Darts if you want to call that a sport). Sports like Baseball, American Football, Ice Hockey (even though I have heard of Wayne), etc, never get mentioned on TV news over here or come up in conversation either. The other ones I have highlighted are big enough or interesting enough to have been brought up at some point.
borg number one
Legend
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Nathaniel_Near
Guest
Two icons for sure! Good picks heftylefty.
Same to you, but I guess you didn't live through Laver's time, so for Borg and Federer (and Sampras or others if you like). That's if you're game, anyway.
borg number one
Legend
I'll Ali and raise you:
Borg was even more impactful than either Federer and Sampras Nathaniel as he transcended even the sport and crossed into popular culture. Plus he completely revolutionized the game. You see elements of Borg in Federer, Nadal and now Djokovic quite frankly. Laver was a big icon for sure, yet Borg came along at a time that was special for the sport and he was truly an enigma and unlike any player I've ever seen in many ways. Both Federer and Sampras are/were huge tennis stars too, yet not quite the same in pop culture. Borg made even non-tennis fans start paying attention and he turned tennis over on its head and really shook things up from his use of a traveling coach to his equipment, to his strokes, to his athletic prowess and his demeanor. He was truly unique and he was an enigma to his fellow layers, yet so many other players and junior players wanted to emulate him.
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Nathaniel_Near
Guest
What were the differences though? For example, what made the time of Sampras different to the time of Federer? What made Borg special compared to his greatest peers and also in comparison to the levels of superstardom achieved by especially Federer? It's the nuances I'm super interested in from your perspective as someone who has lived through both eras. It's pretty crazy with Federer at the moment, in how he appears very high generally in lists of greatest/iconic/other sportsmen ever and the sort of reverence that surrounds him in general. The fervour that surrounds Federer seems to carry much greater weight and gravitas than it did with Sampras when I watched him from around 1995 through to retirement. What are the similarities and differences in feel, in aura, in vibe, that you perceived with the likes of these players? I'm very interested to hear you comment further on this.
So far what I understand is that Borg was: more revolutionary than either; had a bigger impact than either in terms of where tennis was before him and the state in which he left the game; was one of the first true "modern" players with a lasting legacy on how the game is played.
So far what I understand is that Borg was: more revolutionary than either; had a bigger impact than either in terms of where tennis was before him and the state in which he left the game; was one of the first true "modern" players with a lasting legacy on how the game is played.
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Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
Nathaniel, I would not even know where to start without writing pages.
I will say this: if there were tennis courts around when I was 13, I didn't know where they were. I don't think most of us even thought about tennis as a sport. Tennis was something played by rich guys, usually on grass. We were in a word of baseball, basketball and football. There was a LOT of golf on TV, so I regularly saw people like Arnold Palmer and people of his generation. I think Palmer did for golf what someone like Connors did for tennis, but a good decade earlier.
My family belonged to a club (long story), and all we had was rec room. I probably spent a good deal of my life playing ping pong (it was not called table tennis back then), and it was sort of a blood sport the way it was played. There were two tables. You had to wait on line to play a game, and the only way to keep playing was to win. I was a really small kid, so that was the one thing I could compete at that sort of made my height and weight not important.
Around high school age the club put in two lighted hard courts. I graduated high school in 1966, so I guess interest in tennis was starting to pick up. A lot of the fathers and even mothers of kids I knew started taking tennis lessons, and somehow a bunch of us got interested. I bought a racket, a can of balls, and I just started playing. No instruction, no lessons. (I did find a coach later, and it's absolutely the wrong way to go, learning without help and then trying to straighten strokes out later.)
So that was my start. Then out of nowhere came the Open Era, and that was simply a revelation. As you might imagine, seeing Laver in slam mode was simply better than anything else we had seen. At that time Kramer and Gonzales were just names. You did not see them on TV. Flash forward to the WTC in 1971, and you get the idea. Compared to anything that came before it was an amazing time.
This is why it is so hard for me to compare then with now. I don't know anyone who goes out, picks up a racket and goes out to explore the game. I would never say that I was any good, but in college I played other kids who played tennis in high school and held my own pretty well. I have a very analytical mind. I taught my brother how to play (5 years younger), helped him get lessons, then watched him play in high school. He was a natural athlete. I worked in college with a roommate who played semi-pro baseball for a while, and he could not understand why I beat him. He was faster, stronger, better reflexes, and so on. I straightened out his serve and ground strokes, then I never won a set from him again.
We saw these guys who had almost nothing, who played for peanuts by today's standards. They had no trainers, no fitness guys, just a huge love of the game. As we keep talking about, the pros in the 50s and early 60s played anywhere they got paid to play. Imagine Fed and Nadal going out for a beer after a match.
I'm not saying it was better then, but it was very VERY different.
For today you know how it is.
To make an analogy: Think of Shaun White at the time he was doing tricks that no one else in the world had thought of. Then think of where snowboarding is headed now. The top guys are going to do tricks that Shaun never thought of, and they will do his old tricks better. But there is something about being the first to do something.
With Laver we were seeing a sort of revolution in topspin, where he would wind up and hit over the ball from both sides. That was not really so different from Fed now, who does the same thing but alternates between the topspin shot and the slice on the one hand backhand. But we had never seen anything like that.
Then when Connors started winning with that strange T-1000 racket, it was both new technology but also almost useless to anyone but Connors. I bought one and could not keep anything in the court. So it was not like he had an unfair advantage. That was the first time most of us saw a man hit a backhand with two hands, and Connors just looked different from anyone else. Even today you can see that watching his old matches.
You know why JMac looked different. He had that "peek-a-boo" serve, almost no back swing on ground strokes, almost straight legs on volleys. You could hate him, or love him, but no one played like him.
Finally there was Borg, and we had not ever seen anyone hit top spin off both wings as the default. I don't think anyone thought it could be done. To this day I've seen no one hit a THBH even remotely like his. Today's players get a huge amount of power from the second hand, so the shot never looks totally free to me. Borg looked like he used his LH to get a faster acceleration, but around the contact point he released the racket with his LH.
So things like that.
There have been other players who stand out as playing very differently, but I can't say that Fed stands out in my mind as one of them. Fed seems to have taken many techniques and perfected them, and of course there are other differences in the wrists, but these seem to have developed little by little over the decades.
If I had to pick one player who looks different to me, I would have to say Nadal. I never saw any other player hit forehands as he does, the racket going over his head and the crazy spin.
By the way, one shot that looked impossible to me (and still does) is the drive volley. I don't remember anyone hitting the ball that way a few decades back. Back then players were taught never to take a full swing at a volley.
And that's as brief as I can make it. It probably does not belong here.
The Green Mile
Bionic Poster
^^That was a nice read. Thanks for sharing.
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Nathaniel_Near
Guest
^^^
Captivating post.
They hit that drive volley all the time on the WTA tour these days. They probably do it better than the men.
Nothing on Agassi or Sampras, Gary? Agassi also used a lot of LH on his BH (according to him).
Always a pleasure to read these sorts of insights. If you wrote pages, I would read them.
Captivating post.
They hit that drive volley all the time on the WTA tour these days. They probably do it better than the men.
Nothing on Agassi or Sampras, Gary? Agassi also used a lot of LH on his BH (according to him).
Always a pleasure to read these sorts of insights. If you wrote pages, I would read them.
borg number one
Legend
Your takeaways are very big points and yes that's all central. The marketing machine with Nike and the ATP is what is most different. It started getting pumped up with Sampras and Nike and that's a big part of what's happened. Follow the money. I'll try and speak to some of the nuances here Nathaniel yet it's difficult to fully convey. For tennis players, they paid a lot of attention to Sampras as well when he was at the top of the game. Basically these days, the Tour is much more organized and centralized in its power structure with a well defined Tour, and huge sponsors like Nike/Wilson/Babolat etc. making a lot of money constantly promoting that what we are watching is the greatest tennis ever seen! Meanwhile, they all make more money by saying that over and over. Never mind that many in the target audience never really played that much and/or never watched tennis closely before the Sampras era. Look at his strokes when no one else could do it quite in that way with that technology. The technology tended to follow Borg with the strings that came later that help one impart more spin! Plus look at the predominant playing style of today vs. 1970. It has tilted towards the Borg way now and when Borg was around no one played tennis quite like he did and many "experts" even said that he played the "wrong way" and couldn't win at Wimbledon! He listened to none of them and carved out his very own path. I just don't quite see that with either Federer or Sampras. Same with Nadal although he reminds me most of Borg in many respects. With Federer, Nadal, and now Djokovic, I see Borg elements yet not quite the same combination. Borg was really very different during his era than most any other player. That's whats sets him most apart. From his strings to frames, to clothes to playing style, endorsements, to his demeanor..you name it really. As an IMG exec said, all the players today should thank Bjorn Borg because he really set the mold with his large endorsements. Look at the Wimbledon TV ratings in 1980 for Wimbledon in England and the U.S. as another barometer as well.
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Nathaniel_Near
Guest
With Federer, Djokovic and Nadal, you see the machine.
With Borg, you see the man.
A maverick of the game, trying to reign over a yet extremely fertile and untouched landscape of the then nascent Open Era; the architect of his time; a revolutionary of the game.
With Borg, you see the man.
A maverick of the game, trying to reign over a yet extremely fertile and untouched landscape of the then nascent Open Era; the architect of his time; a revolutionary of the game.
These are the people I have no idea who they are:
4. Deion Sanders
5. Jackie Joyner-Kersee
7. Bo Jackson
8. Cheryl Miller
14. Dan Gable
15. Bobby Orr
18. Jim Brown
20. Willie Mays
21. Sugar Ray Robinson
22. Jackie Robinson
23. Babe Didrikson Zaharias
25. Jim Thorpe
So much for the impact they had on the world...
4. Deion Sanders
5. Jackie Joyner-Kersee
7. Bo Jackson
8. Cheryl Miller
14. Dan Gable
15. Bobby Orr
18. Jim Brown
20. Willie Mays
21. Sugar Ray Robinson
22. Jackie Robinson
23. Babe Didrikson Zaharias
25. Jim Thorpe
So much for the impact they had on the world...
The greatest sports icon was the Greatest, Ali. No one comes close. He was global before globalisation. He needed no Nike or Fila or MTV, to set a mark all by himself. He was the people's king, all mankind knew him. When he went to Africa or Asia, he was instantly surrounded by kids, who chanted his name. I have seen this only on one other person, that was Amstrong, not the doper, not the moonman, but Louis Amstrong.
smoledman
G.O.A.T.
He literally gave the SF 49ers the Super Bowl title the year he played with them.
You killed the thread by being right with the Ali post. Being nice, decent and pleasing the sponsors and fans doesn't quite match it with being insanely charismatic and articulate, then jailed for your beliefs when heavyweight champion of the world.
bjsnider
Hall of Fame
I don't really care about some meaningless clickbait article, but I am surprised at the number of athletes on the list that people here say they've never heard of. Obviously part of it is cultural -- everybody here in Canada knows who Wayne Gretzky is, although he's been retired for many years. He was so great it was a cause for celebration when an opponent could keep him, in his prime, off the scoreboard. Kareem holds most of the important records in pro basketball history. I would think these guys and the others would be well-known enough around the world that everybody interested in sports would know them.
Inanimate_object
Hall of Fame
His cult of personality did not take off until after he retired though. No one really appreciated that the things Ali was doing inside the ring were a reflection of his career on the DOWNSLIDE. It was only in retrospective that we all mourned for the prime Ali we should have seen that was robbed from us. That was when respect for Ali just grew exponentially I think.
That might be true, but without using Google do you know Shane Warne? Many non Canadians under about 35 wouldn't know Gretzky, and many young non American sporting fans wouldn't know Kareem. One thing North American sporting fans dont seem to realise is that just as you/they have little interest in foreign sports, most foreigners have marginal (at best) interest in any sport that involves a "World series" consisting of domestic American teams.
I can understand that people don't know nothing about a few athletes from the 25 list. However you must be really isolated from the world of sport to never heard many of them.
bjsnider
Hall of Fame
I don't know who Mr. Warne is, no.
Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
I was not a fan of Agassi at all. The hype irritated me, and in the beginning he did not live up to the hype. I changed my mind at the end of his career. I always thought his game was ugly (and still do).
But I can remember seeing Pete win his first USO like it was yesterday, and it was the first time I got really excited about a young player since Becker.
Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
Getting back to the topic...
I would think the most iconic players would be those who are known world-wide and whose fame is going last a long time.
The huge emphasis on sports and athletes seems to be a largely 20th and 21st century thing.
Most people know who Beethoven was, and he's been dead almost 200 years. Can anyone name a famous athlete who lived in the early 1800s?
Fame in sports is usually something that only lasts a couple decades.
So when I read that most Canadians under the age would not have heard of Gretzky, it shocks me a bit, but it shouldn't.
By the way, when I type "Gretzky", it does not show a misspelling. That means to the spell checker it is a known name. It does not know Laver. But it knows Connors.
It knows Reggie Jackson. It knows Bobby Orr. It knows McEnroe. But it does not know Rosewall. Would anyone like to guess who made the file to check words here?
I would think the most iconic players would be those who are known world-wide and whose fame is going last a long time.
The huge emphasis on sports and athletes seems to be a largely 20th and 21st century thing.
Most people know who Beethoven was, and he's been dead almost 200 years. Can anyone name a famous athlete who lived in the early 1800s?
Fame in sports is usually something that only lasts a couple decades.
So when I read that most Canadians under the age would not have heard of Gretzky, it shocks me a bit, but it shouldn't.
By the way, when I type "Gretzky", it does not show a misspelling. That means to the spell checker it is a known name. It does not know Laver. But it knows Connors.
It knows Reggie Jackson. It knows Bobby Orr. It knows McEnroe. But it does not know Rosewall. Would anyone like to guess who made the file to check words here?
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VexlanderPrime
Guest
Read thru the list, has Deon Sanders, Martina and Bruce Lee but not Tom Brady or Shaquille o'neil or Lebron or Arnold Palmer or Kobe or Sweetness or manning or Ladainian Tomlinson. Not to mention the omitted soccer greats. Not to mention Usain Freaking BOLT. Written by a non sports fan obv.
Pretty much should have stopped reading at Bruce Lee, what a joke. Great actor, obv athletic, doesn't belong anywhere near a list of iconic athlete competitors. I'll give u that it comes down to definition but I'd never put him on the list. You put him on the list and you have to put Arnold Swartz up there too. And then the Rock and Hulk hogan get ****ed... It just gets silly then.
Fed would be in the top 5-10 tho. Rafa should prob be on the list as we'll.
Pretty much should have stopped reading at Bruce Lee, what a joke. Great actor, obv athletic, doesn't belong anywhere near a list of iconic athlete competitors. I'll give u that it comes down to definition but I'd never put him on the list. You put him on the list and you have to put Arnold Swartz up there too. And then the Rock and Hulk hogan get ****ed... It just gets silly then.
Fed would be in the top 5-10 tho. Rafa should prob be on the list as we'll.
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VexlanderPrime
Guest
Jordan makes $100 million a year TODAY at age 50+, a decade+ into retirement based on being a worldwide icon who sells more shoes that Fed could in 5 lifetimes. Heck Nike basically goaded Jordan into making appearances at Fed events to attempt to elevate Fed's brand. Not even comparable.
BringBackSV
Hall of Fame
Fed has done well but I wouldn't even put him above Lebron, let alone Jordan. Putting him at number 2 is just dumb.
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
rofl @ jailed for your beliefs. Ali was a cowardly segregation advocate. How's that for a belief?
BringBackSV
Hall of Fame
What aspects of his beliefs were cowardly? He'd have done the same thing Joe Louis did if he served (nothing to be scared of), he didn't believe in the rationale behind the war (also not cowardly) and black or white, how was believing in the merits of segregation unusual at the time?
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Deleted member 688153
Guest
Yes, he has been monetised better because America.
How surprising, it's not like they've been able to produce any decent tennis players of late.
That doesn't in any way make him a greater athlete or sportsperson.
Tennis has always been more niche.
And, sure, basketball might technically be played in many countries, but the NBA is American.
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Deleted member 688153
Guest
Wot.
Federer has 10x the greatness that Lebron dude will ever have, even as a basketballer I think he's overrated as heck.
Only Jordan could ever compare with Federer as far as basketballers are concerned.
Lebron is the Djokovic of basketball, except not nearly as good as Novak.
Tennis is a much tougher and more skilled sport anyway IMO.
It's comparatively easy to make money and enjoy success in the NBA.
Basketball is the most American game I can think of.
Tennis is truly international.
You just to wait for the Olympics to see that only the American team is particularly serious. They win without fail.
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Deleted member 688153
Guest
Never mind, just realised that we're talking about "most iconic", not "greatest".
In that case, by all means flesh out the list with basketballers, baseballers, and footballers, because they're the sports for the masses and so obviously their greats will be more well-known.
Tennis is classy, so naturally it has few fans.
I'll go start another thread to discuss the greatest athlete.
In that case, by all means flesh out the list with basketballers, baseballers, and footballers, because they're the sports for the masses and so obviously their greats will be more well-known.
Tennis is classy, so naturally it has few fans.
I'll go start another thread to discuss the greatest athlete.
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Sirius Black
Guest
There are a good amount of international players.
Sure, the MLB is American as well, but I'd bet that a quarter of the players can't speak English.
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70sHollywood
Guest
William Webb Ellis!
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Deleted member 688153
Guest
That's true.
But I mean it's not played outside America much.
Sports like tennis can be won by many countries in the Davis Cup, the World Cup in football, and sports like cricket are also highly international.
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Sirius Black
Guest
There is a Euroleague for basketball.
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Deleted member 688153
Guest
Interesting, I didn't know that.
I think netball is more international actually, we here in Australia have a decent ladies' netball team.
But the main mass following of basketball is America as far as I am aware.
I think the most iconic sportsperson of all time would be Tiger Woods actually.
Who doesn't know Tiger Woods?
BringBackSV
Hall of Fame
Tennis is not slightly tougher or requiring more skills. Lebron does everything on the court. Tennis is international but it's not a mega sport anywhere, basketball is international also.
Anyway, Fed is more accomplished but I just think Lebron is a bigger brand and equally as gifted at his respective sport.
BringBackSV
Hall of Fame
It's Tiger and Jordan, perhaps throw Ali in the mix and a few footballers, Pele, Maradona, and Messi.
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Sirius Black
Guest
Take away his scandal and maybe the average joe who doesn't follow sports might not.
Also, his name is unique and recognizable. Not so much the case with "Roger."
I can also guarantee that non-soccer fans in the US haven't heard of Maradona.
BringBackSV
Hall of Fame
I don't think the scandal made Tiger more famous, the average joe knew who he was. Roger was just never nearly as famous. The only thing Tiger's scandal did was get him talked about more for a period by non sports fans but they still knew who he was.
MatsPhilander
Legend
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Who is he?
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Nathaniel_Near
Guest
Is Ian Botham any more iconic than Hadlee, Dev, or my personal favourite, Imran Khan?
Great era in cricket for all-rounders, that's for sure.
Great era in cricket for all-rounders, that's for sure.
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Deleted member 688153
Guest
Yeah, I've realised what we're talking about now.
Agree, Lebron would definitely be more well known and be a bigger brand, we're talking about America here.
Basically, if the sport isn't big in North America, no-one knows you.
Everyone knows Tiger, Ali, Phelps, Jordan, Gretzky.
What do they have in common?
North American.
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Deleted member 688153
Guest
crazyups
Professional
Actually some chess masters are known to lose quite a few pounds from a match. There is a lot of physical stuff going on with all that concentration.
BringBackSV
Hall of Fame
It's debatable whether or not it's a sport but it's not debatable that they are athletes, they are not.
