2HBH - grab thumb like golf?

I played golf for only one lesson, and was surprised to learn that one should grab the thumb. Do you do the same in 2HBH tennis?

 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
You must not hit 2hbh.
Locked wrist is for the 1' before and after impact with a moving incoming ball.
You don't want the variability of a hinge at that moment, you want consistent and replicable....that is why players choose 2hbh over 1hbhn
 

Dragy

Hall of Fame
You must not hit 2hbh.
Locked wrist is for the 1' before and after impact with a moving incoming ball.
You don't want the variability of a hinge at that moment, you want consistent and replicable....that is why players choose 2hbh over 1hbhn
That's not the way you hit powerful BH. Block back - yes.
Add: you should come together with that Polish dude who claimed Roger locked his wrist on FH to hit with whole body. The "Ultimate pusher" thread. He hit a locked-wrists 2HBH actually, as well as FH.
 
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LeeD

Bionic Poster
It IS possible to lock just before to just after impact, while flexing into and out of the swing.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
@LeeD

On that sweet reproducible Djoker 2hbh ... there shall be no hand/finger locking (in fact there is a space between the hands) .... and there shall be significant unhinging at the hands from the slot to somewhere before contact ... and any unhinging at the hands/wrist after contact shall be minimus after contact if any at all (just whatever natural follow through release happens).

So big hands/wrist unhinging from slot to somewhere before contact (for Djoker ... Mr Hewitt was for the most part hinge-free). Right before contact and in follow through the non-dom arm rolling over the dom arm be the action ... not the unhinging.

Some 2hbhs are quite hingey from slot to contact ... others I guess you would say are "unhinged". 8-B

I am not sure I like the term "locked wrist", although obviously FHs hit with the wrist fully laid back seems pretty locked. I hit my FH almost back to neutral from a small lag/hinge ... feels stable but not locked. On 2hbh you have two hands on the racquet so it's very stable. Locked sounds like "tension" ... maybe go with "just firm enough to control impact".

@Dragy ... best I could do. 8-B
 
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ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
@Dragy

I measure "hingey" from slot to contact. Using Medvedev's FH and BH ... I measure hingey by the dom hand (right hand). Yes ... even the 2hbh ... it's the dom hand where forearm/racquet angle is set and released ... no-dom hand in 2hbh is just a "pusher" and assistant in the unhinging.

2hbhs tend to get dom hand back to neutralish by contact (I'm sure if we looked at Medvedev from the side he is), and at least on the FH below, he moved a long ways back toward neutral from that slot lagged/hinged pic. No golf gloves .... no overlapping fingers ... no non-dom thumb slid under dom-palm. 8-B (y)




 

SystemicAnomaly

Talk Tennis Guru
No thumb grab for tennis. For one, grip size much larger for tennis than golf. I don't believe that baseball batters or cricket batsmen grab the thumb either.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
@Dragy

I measure "hingey" from slot to contact. Using Medvedev's FH and BH ... I measure hingey by the dom hand (right hand). Yes ... even the 2hbh ... it's the dom hand where forearm/racquet angle is set and released ... no-dom hand in 2hbh is just a "pusher" and assistant in the unhinging.

2hbhs tend to get dom hand back to neutralish by contact (I'm sure if we looked at Medvedev from the side he is), and at least on the FH below, he moved a long ways back toward neutral from that slot lagged/hinged pic. No golf gloves .... no overlapping fingers ... no non-dom thumb slid under dom-palm. 8-B (y)





On your 2 hander questions from the past - I just worked with a guy who coaches pros and has a monster 2hander. He changed my 2hander a bit and I should be able to show before and after video once I get it. This guy makes it simple so I can share exactly what he told me:

1. First move from split step, just get into your 2hbh grip and turn your shoulders to the backhand side. The strings should be facing the net and racquet face should be head high. Easy.

2. Now you turn your body so you are stepping in with your right foot. Just doing this will get the racquet back into the proper position. Zero thought required. If you are doing this properly you will naturally be in the takeback you see most pros in.

3. Now you drop the racquet and swing forward. The questions people ask here- how much, how do I bend my wrist? Etc. ....The way to think about it is simply to hit the bottom half of the ball. If you aim for the bottom half, your body should naturally do the rest for you as long as you are dropping the racquet under the ball. Additionally, you are looking at the ball longer when you do this so it’s a win/win.

4. Final step is to follow through so the racquet blade hits your back.

Of all these steps, the trickiest part to get dialed in without thinking is #3. For this part, you want to get in your backhand grip and do steps 1 and 2. Once you get to step 3, let go of the frame with the right hand and hit a left handed forehand and make sure to do Step 4. You don’t need to crush the ball, and you can work on this against the wall. After a while, it will become automatic. Many people say to practice with a left handed FH, and it’s true for this style of backhand but you need to make sure the left hand is positioned the same way on the handle as when you hit with both hands.

If you do those 4 steps and practice them until they are ingrained, you will have strong technique on the backhand. As soon as mine is dialed in, I will film it so you can see. The left handed dominant backhand is considered the most powerful backhand in terms of spin and pace once you get it dialed in. I can tell you the coach who showed me this has the biggest two hander I have ever faced. It is an absolute weapon, so it was very cool to learn how he does it.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
On your 2 hander questions from the past - I just worked with a guy who coaches pros and has a monster 2hander. He changed my 2hander a bit and I should be able to show before and after video once I get it. This guy makes it simple so I can share exactly what he told me:

1. First move from split step, just get into your 2hbh grip and turn your shoulders to the backhand side. The strings should be facing the net and racquet face should be head high. Easy.

2. Now you turn your body so you are stepping in with your right foot. Just doing this will get the racquet back into the proper position. Zero thought required. If you are doing this properly you will naturally be in the takeback you see most pros in.

3. Now you drop the racquet and swing forward. The questions people ask here- how much, how do I bend my wrist? Etc. ....The way to think about it is simply to hit the bottom half of the ball. If you aim for the bottom half, your body should naturally do the rest for you as long as you are dropping the racquet under the ball. Additionally, you are looking at the ball longer when you do this so it’s a win/win.

4. Final step is to follow through so the racquet blade hits your back.

Of all these steps, the trickiest part to get dialed in without thinking is #3. For this part, you want to get in your backhand grip and do steps 1 and 2. Once you get to step 3, let go of the frame with the right hand and hit a left handed forehand and make sure to do Step 4. You don’t need to crush the ball, and you can work on this against the wall. After a while, it will become automatic. Many people say to practice with a left handed FH, and it’s true for this style of backhand but you need to make sure the left hand is positioned the same way on the handle as when you hit with both hands.

If you do those 4 steps and practice them until they are ingrained, you will have strong technique on the backhand. As soon as mine is dialed in, I will film it so you can see. The left handed dominant backhand is considered the most powerful backhand in terms of spin and pace once you get it dialed in. I can tell you the coach who showed me this has the biggest two hander I have ever faced. It is an absolute weapon, so it was very cool to learn how he does it.
My approach the first summer learning the 2hbh with the ball machine had a similar checklist:

1) closed stance (I came from 1hbh so that was my automatic already)
2) get the timing down of step forward (weight transfer) and racquet drop ... had very moderate rh drop that first summer
3) swing low to high after weight on front leg/foot finishing with racquet tapping me on the back in follow through.

My thought was get that basic full stroke closed stance 2hbh topspin stroke down before adding variety. In hindsight it was a good way to start, but I would have added hitting on the move earlier than I did. I hit for several months stationary which is perfect for grooving a new stroke, but it breaks down as soon as you add movement. I think it's a bit of an art coming up with your initial learning curve. If I started from day one including movement, I would not have grooved a stroke (that's knowing how I learn ... we all learn differently).

But then you watch ATP matches and just pick a player and watch their 2hbh variations for an entire set. Some closed stance (almost always when going for their max pace), some open, sometimes tap on the back follow through, sometimes very abbreviated follow through. Murray is my favorite for observing 2hbh variety. Kyrgios is interesting for abbreviated and flat ... particularly his dtl. I added the open stance 2hbh much later ... in hindsight that should be added sooner rather than later ... the open stance is just way to useful in many situations (including ros).

My original 2hbh thread detailed how I approached it the first summer. Search thread titles by me "DIY" and probably find it. I went back and read it again at one point, and saw gaps I didn't know yet ... but not a bad first start.

I totally agree if you are going to hit lhfhs as a drill ... hit them with your left hand in it's 2hbh grip position. NYTA and Jolly comments peaked my interest ... so I spent most of a week hitting lhfhs. I would take my normal 2hbh backswing with my two hands on the racquet, and then let go with dom hand at the slot and swing low to high with lhfh. My thought is the goal is to make the left arm/hand more coordinated when it's called on to be more active in the hit (typically lifting rh from deep rh drop ... or even my "active snap" from my other thread. I have a thread somewhere about my week of lhfhs. I actually didn't feel like I got much out of it. I got better results coming up with "active lh" 2hbh drills with both hands on the racquet.

It's great that you are seeing improvement with coaches advice. I would love to see before and after video. I have not been hitting ... but it will be cooling down soon and hopefully start hitting again.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
My approach the first summer learning the 2hbh with the ball machine had a similar checklist:

1) closed stance (I came from 1hbh so that was my automatic already)
2) get the timing down of step forward (weight transfer) and racquet drop ... had very moderate rh drop that first summer
3) swing low to high after weight on front leg/foot finishing with racquet tapping me on the back in follow through.

My thought was get that basic full stroke closed stance 2hbh topspin stroke down before adding variety. In hindsight it was a good way to start, but I would have added hitting on the move earlier than I did. I hit for several months stationary which is perfect for grooving a new stroke, but it breaks down as soon as you add movement. I think it's a bit of an art coming up with your initial learning curve. If I started from day one including movement, I would not have grooved a stroke (that's knowing how I learn ... we all learn differently).

But then you watch ATP matches and just pick a player and watch their 2hbh variations for an entire set. Some closed stance (almost always when going for their max pace), some open, sometimes tap on the back follow through, sometimes very abbreviated follow through. Murray is my favorite for observing 2hbh variety. Kyrgios is interesting for abbreviated and flat ... particularly his dtl. I added the open stance 2hbh much later ... in hindsight that should be added sooner rather than later ... the open stance is just way to useful in many situations (including ros).

My original 2hbh thread detailed how I approached it the first summer. Search thread titles by me "DIY" and probably find it. I went back and read it again at one point, and saw gaps I didn't know yet ... but not a bad first start.

I totally agree if you are going to hit lhfhs as a drill ... hit them with your left hand in it's 2hbh grip position. NYTA and Jolly comments peaked my interest ... so I spent most of a week hitting lhfhs. I would take my normal 2hbh backswing with my two hands on the racquet, and then let go with dom hand at the slot and swing low to high with lhfh. My thought is the goal is to make the left arm/hand more coordinated when it's called on to be more active in the hit (typically lifting rh from deep rh drop ... or even my "active snap" from my other thread. I have a thread somewhere about my week of lhfhs. I actually didn't feel like I got much out of it. I got better results coming up with "active lh" 2hbh drills with both hands on the racquet.

It's great that you are seeing improvement with coaches advice. I would love to see before and after video. I have not been hitting ... but it will be cooling down soon and hopefully start hitting again.
The LHFH drill is a big part of it. Notice when you let go with the right hand, the racquet drops. Thats what you want to get used to feeling. As long as you get the basics drilled down, over time you will be able to make the different adjustments to the shot.

Honestly the best thing you can do is either have someone feed you shots or go hit against the wall. I have been doing both all summer in the hot SoFL weather. It is tough but has been a big help on staying in shape for matches.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
The LHFH drill is a big part of it. Notice when you let go with the right hand, the racquet drops. Thats what you want to get used to feeling. As long as you get the basics drilled down, over time you will be able to make the different adjustments to the shot.

Honestly the best thing you can do is either have someone feed you shots or go hit against the wall. I have been doing both all summer in the hot SoFL weather. It is tough but has been a big help on staying in shape for matches.
I didn't have any issues with both hands on the racquet going from modest racquet head below hands to a deeper drop. I mean no issues getting to the deeper drop with very relaxed wrists and grips ... but definitely harder to time a deep drop (think Nishikori) and very little (think Hewitt). So for me ... my only interest in the lhfh drills was swinging forward from the slot with rh drop already set. I did not see the point in learning to hit a lhfh backswing, drop, lag, etc because I do not think the 2hbh is the same thing as a lhfh. I know people disagree on that observation ... but to me two arms and hands on a racquet is a totally different unique stroke.

Florida ... yeah ... hot and humid. Played a USTA nationals in Key Biscayne in Oct and even then it was crazy humid.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
I didn't have any issues with both hands on the racquet going from modest racquet head below hands to a deeper drop. I mean no issues getting to the deeper drop with very relaxed wrists and grips ... but definitely harder to time a deep drop (think Nishikori) and very little (think Hewitt). So for me ... my only interest in the lhfh drills was swinging forward from the slot with rh drop already set. I did not see the point in learning to hit a lhfh backswing, drop, lag, etc because I do not think the 2hbh is the same thing as a lhfh. I know people disagree on that observation ... but to me two arms and hands on a racquet is a totally different unique stroke.

Florida ... yeah ... hot and humid. Played a USTA nationals in Key Biscayne in Oct and even then it was crazy humid.
If you hit a left hand dominant backhand, it is a LHFH. That's just the reality of it. You may hit a right dominant backhand then.
I've been playing all summer on KB or Sobe. It's tough weather but it's awesome for training.
 
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