abmk
Bionic Poster
lol wut ? next we'll be hearing about how rafa's BH is much more versatile than fed's ..... much better slice, how much often he goes DTL with it ....... :lol:
2nd best FH of all time. Period!
- Thread starter kragster
- Start date
lol wut ? next we'll be hearing about how rafa's BH is much more versatile than fed's ..... much better slice, how much often he goes DTL with it ....... :lol:
You said his forehand is a liability.
How can it be the best FH ever it is a liability?
Please explain.
M
monfed
Guest
As have Novak,Fed and even Murray but that's not the point now is it? I'm talking on average here and Ralph far prefers his CC moonball compared to his DTL FH.
Not complaining, just pointing out Ralph's inherent advantage of his bread n butter CC FH falling to his opponent's BH as opposed to their FH which players like Fed,Lendl and all the other FH greats don't enjoy. Ignoring this simple inherent advantage that Ralph enjoys is turning a blind eye to the whole debate.
M
monfed
Guest
I don't quote you then because you say it to make Ralph look better than he is. Afterall, Ralph's greatest competitor on clay was Fred. :lol:
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
Inherent advantage in being LH is a fallacy.
Ever heard of a mirror?
There is nothing stopping RH players hitting loopy forehands into a LH's backhand.
Cesc Fabregas
Legend
The thing about Nadal is because he puts so much spin on the ball guys get their racquets on the ball so they don't go down as winners, when they basically are.
But you said his FH is a liability? Are you retracting your earlier post?
M
monfed
Guest
It's only being debated by blind Nadulltards like yourself, Fed's FH is the greatest and that is not up for debate. It's your clan that's trying to dispute that claim and YES it is widely acknowledged and revered not to mention analysed by pretty much every tennis pro out there. You obviously don't read a lot of tennis articles.
If you have any doubts then feel free to look at Fed's FH at the USO 04 final,that is the greatest FH display one will ever see. Heck Ralph will probably himself smack you in the head for saying Ralph's FH is greater than Fed's afterall he spent his entire career avoiding it. :lol:
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Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
1. You said Federer's forehand "shanks all over the place".
2. By making that statement, you made it seem like Federer's forehand was a liability. If your forehand "shanks all over the place", it is a liability.
3. Federer did not shank forehands "all over the place" in his prime. Your statement was incorrect.
Name calling doesn't strengthen your argument.
Evidence please?
Btw - I believe I'm an objective tennis fan, who thinks Fed is an amazing player. So calling me a "Nadulltard" reveals more about yourself than me.
abmk
Bionic Poster
I wasn't talking about the number of winners. I was talking about taking it early on the rise ala federer or agassi or davydenko .....
nadal's FH is clearly superior to federer's on clay, but I wouldn't use the term vastly .... clearly or significantly, yes .. but not vastly ...
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
That is true. Nadal wins an enormous amount of points by simply dictating play to his opponents with his forehand.
However, this can be said about Federer as well. The most clean forehand winners I remember Federer hitting in a match was 25 against Roddick at the 2006 USO.
In contrast, Soderling hitting 30 forehand winners on Nadal at the 2009 FO and Del Potro struck 37 forehand winners on Federer at the 2009 USO.
Cesc Fabregas
Legend
abmk
Bionic Poster
where did you get these fh winners stats ?
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
http://iphone.france24.com/en/20090915-del-potro-defeats-federer-win-us-open-
Del Potro's winner count was mentioned in the above article.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/m...-nadal-loses-4th-french-open-article-1.409974
This article mentioned Soderling's winner count
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/10/AR2006091000820.html
Federer's forehand count.
I have personally never seen a higher count for Federer (even though I'm sure there is). Federer hit 24 forehand winners against Roddick at the AO in 2007,
I have no idea why you have the tag of most objective Nadal fan on board. Your comments are so fanboyish its not even funny. Please answer me why Nadal Fh is so useless indoors if its so versatile? Djoker ate that forehand alive with his BH in 2011 and 2012 RG final 3rd set when it started raining heavy. Federer forehand on the other hand is effective on every single surface, slow hc, clay, you name it.
Nadal Fh at the moment is better than Federer but thats about it.
And yes Nadal's Fh is the second best FH of all time, no doubt about it.
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abmk
Bionic Poster
thanks for those links.
Fed had 28 fh winners as per Moose in Rome 2006 final
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=383354
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According to who? You? Where is the consensus? Give me a list of names.
Typical moron fanboy TW argument. I point out weaknesses in your argument, you start calling people names.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Idk, maybe because I'm objective. Could it be that you, like Montroll overlook everything I say that I love about everyone else?
Nadal's forehand isn't useless indoors. The conditions and faster courts take time away from Nadal which we know, is his greatest weakness. It's easier to hit through Nadal indoors.
Ok. Give me a LOGICAL argument to support your point of view.
Why can't a RIGHT HANDER hit cross court FH to the LEFT HANDER backhand?
Why is it an advantage for the LEFT HANDER?
NOW. THINK. BEFORE. YOU. TYPE.
I KNOW THIS WILL BE HARD FOR YOU.
BUT THINK. Pause. Take deep breath. Think..... Use brain..
THINK BEFORE YOU TYPE - just because there are more RH than LH doesn't make it easier for the LH.
So. AGAIN. Why can't a RIGHT HANDER hit cross court FH to the LEFT HANDER backhand?
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Federer's FH and game has already influenced today's amateur, junior and pro game considerably. And will continue to do so. Aspects of Nadal's game has also had a considerable amount of influence on today's game. This includes his ultra-tenacity, his fitness level and athleticism, his prolific use of the reverse finish and other aspects of his groundtrokes have served to further raise the level of the game today.
Roger's smooth/graceful/fluid, efficient footwork has influenced other players for more than a decade and will continue to do so for quite some to come. While some elements of the footwork of Rafa and others have also influenced players, the inefficiency and punishing nature their footwork is less of an ideal model for players seeking efficient movement and longevity in today's game. Federer's shot selection, creative shotmaking, focus, and finesse as well as his variety/versatility in his stances/footwork, stroke mechanics and other aspects of his game provide a superior model to the one-dimensional aspects of others. His style emphasizes technique over raw, forced power. Roger's gaze/vision techniques on his groundtrokes, volleys and serves have also influenced many of today's players.
Rafa himself has been influenced significantly by Roger. Nadal switched from his double-bend FH technique to adopt Federer's straight-arm (elbow) FH. He also incorporated the passive, yet extreme wrist extension at the start of the forward swing on the FH as Roger does. It appears that Rafa also adopted the Federer gaze/vision technique on his groundstokes (and serves). For this technique, Roger (and Rafa) keeps the head still longer than other players -- for nearly all of the forward swing and follow-thru of the groundstroke.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
If Nadal can't deal with lack of time maybe his forehand isn't the best afterall?
And I quote, just to PROVE THAT I CAN READ "Federer's forehand was not a liability in his prime, it was a brilliant shot." (posted by "Sid_Vicous"). Implication of quoted text is that Fed's FH is currently a liability.
Secondly, go through my past posts. Did I ever say he shanked all over the place? Typical fan boy revealing insecurities in your own argument in your own post.
Again, more insults rather than logical arguments.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
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Then how it is more versatile than Federer when he can't adapt and needs conditions tailor made for him whether its hot weather, high bouncy surface :???: ? You contradicted your own point buddy.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Check mate. Nadal is doing so great on clay and slow bouncy hard courts, I wonder how his forehand would do in the 90's.
And if some Nadal fan comes in and says that it's not fair because players would hit through Nadal THEN WHY CAN'T NADAL DO THE SAME IF HIS FOREHAND IS SO VERSATILE?
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Someone's tennis game is ONLY the forehand? Come off it. Even if you had a valid point it's only less versatile in ONE facet. Hooray.
TennisOcean
Banned
Let's not forget how relaxed and elegant Safin's forehands were:
joke, right ?
Marat's forehand always was his fragile shot, his backhand was way more solid.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Tell us what other facets of the game are hindering Nadal indoors?
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
joke, right ?
Marat's forehand always was his fragile shot, his backhand was way more solid.
Also, Safin's forehand "relaxed and elegant"? :?
His FH would be very different to the shot he uses today because his current FH would be impossible with 90s racquets and string. He's a product of his time/era.
I agree, a weakness of his FH is that on occasion he can be rushed for time. However, there is no single shot of any player in tennis that is perfect. If there was, that player would never lose.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
abmk
Bionic Poster
....
I suppose this was your alter ago then ? :roll:
if you are trying to wriggle out of this by saying this is only about fed of now ... well, we'll see how rafa's fh is at 32 :lol:... we've already seen how relentlessly nadal got punished for hitting it consistently short on HC before 08, mid-2009 to end of 2009 etc etc ......
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Do you realise thread is about forehand only ?
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
So Nadal losing to younger opponents in his 30's (if he plays that long that is) won't have anything to do with his age but his forehand letting him down. Is that right?
abmk
Bionic Poster
but talk was about his forehand getting rushed vs flat hitters especially on faster, low bouncing surfaces .....if it was that versatile as you make it out to be, why would that happen ?
and it is a very valid point. You just can't see it because you are completely 'intoxicated' by rafa's recent form , that's it
see about his ability to take it on the rise, that is required more on the faster , lower bouncing surfaces .... this is part of the problem of his FH being rushed ... because he can't take it on the rise consistently ....
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MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
You do realize that a change of conditions/surface/being indoors is what influences how Nadal plays? Nadal isn't bad indoors just bc of his forehand. That's my point.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Yeah, other players who actually play aggressively and go for winners instead of camping 10 feet behind the baseline aren't hindered by wind (you know, hitting close to the lines actually requires precision) and when that's gone Nadal can do nothing about having to defend all the time.
There's not a single other facet that could result in Nadal's forehand being worse than in other conditions. His movement is fine.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Pshh. Those lines call Nadal's forehand daddy.
*shrug*
Firstly, I never said Nadal's FH is the best in the open era. My humble opinion is that it is a more effective FH than Federer's FH. My whole point of posting in the first place was to highlight the ridiculous assumption in the OP.
Secondly, different tools produce different strokes. What else would you expect?
This place (TW) is full of weirdos.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
You still haven't answered my question. What other facets or the game (other than the forehand alone) result in Nadal's forehand being weaker in the indoor season?
.PhenomeNadal.
New User
IMO it is the best. Also the most unique.
What other reason can you think of him being so medicore there inspite of WTF being such a slow surface
Nadal can't push his opponents back and spread the court since his forehand doesn't kick up due to low bounce and opponents can easily take on the rise without making errors. Thats why his FH is not versatile compared to Federer. I am not sure why its so hard for you to understand. Yes Nadal has the most consistent FH of all time but versatile, no. Its not even in top 10 FHs indoors but good for him, indoor season is almost non existent.
I concede I did type this. However, I do believe in my statement. Fed shanks all over the place on both wings. Do you disagree? The problem for him is that entire game revolves around small margins of error. Now as he ages and the hand-eye coordination is not as good as it used to be he shanks all over the place.
If I could choose a FH, it would be Nadal's. Its more reliable, and he uses it to dominate all his contemporary opponents. It is the dominant shot in men's tennis. Nadal's FH will influence more up-and-coming juniors than Fed's FH. There is nothing revolutionary about Fed's FH - its a beautiful shot executed by an incredibly gifted player. Howver, the heavy top spin game is where tennis is headed. When I coach kids to serve, and I get them to imitate Fed's serve. His serve is simple, uncomplicated but incredibly effective. When it comes to the FH, the Nadal forehand is the future.
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