I know where to toss the ball for a 1st serve but a bit confused about where to toss for a 2nd Serve. Some coaches say to toss the ball over your head but professionals seem to still toss out in front but slightly to the left ( for a righthander) unless my eyes are playing tricks on me.
2nd serve ball toss location?
- Thread starter Pumpkin
- Start date
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
You will have to experiment a little. You will want to toss to where a natural swing puts a lot of topspin on the ball and still allows you to land in the court. I wouldn’t pick a toss location and work your swing around that. Typically to be able to put more topspin in the ball, you will place the ball over the midline of your body than over the hitting shoulder. But again, it has to work within your topspin producing swing while also allowing you to aim to a spot. Still throwing a bit out into the court will aid in being able to direct the ball (aim) as the ball will go in the direction your body weight is going
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My toss improved on my 2nd when started trying to toss it the same as my first but maybe 6 inches to the left and maybe 6 inches closer to me. Tossing over head can cause tossing issues. Now if you can do it consistently and it works for your serve by all means knock yourself out.
Slicerman
Professional
My 2nd serve has improved over the past month. One thing I found helpful was intentionally locating my toss to a specific spot. I toss the ball just in front of my left shoulder (righty) and about half a foot into the court. When I do that I can get at least some topspin on it. If I'm feeling a bit more confident (and limber) in the moment then I might occasionally toss the ball a few more inches to the left of the shoulder, which might result in a bit heavier ball. Take note that this in relation to a "square" or sideways stance. I also notice that I can get the toss to more consistently reach that spot by keeping the tossing arm straight and extended for longer.
Assuming your 2nd is a kickserve, and that you are right handed, a little left of the location of your flat serve toss will be perfect. Yes, tossing behind your head or even straight over your head works, but it will be a weak serve. A forward toss allows you to use forward momentum to supply power. Also, once in a while, the same toss location will allow you to hit a flat serve instead.
I know that serve is very effective at lower levels, but probably 4.5 and higher it will be read easily and crushed, either very sharp cross court or DTL. I tried it against my pro…
Slicerman
Professional
I have a friend who uses that serve too, using that same toss as well. Once everyone realized what's his M.O. we all figured out how to handle it. I tend to cover the forehand side more. His targets were either around body and to the righty forehand, and never to the backhand. It does tend to slid low though, so usually the guys with the extreme forehand grips make a ton of errors on return.
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
Yup. I don't use it all the time, and only on a court where I can use the side curtain to my advantage.
fuzz nation
G.O.A.T.
Totally depends on what sort of serve you're trying to hit. Generating different sorts of spin on a serve calls for a different swing path through the ball. The toss needs to be properly located to accommodate that particular swing path.
Assuming the server is a right-hander and the first serve is relatively flat:
Same serve with less heat - toss to the same spot.
Sidespin (slice) serve - toss slightly more to the right.
Tospin/kick serve - toss slightly more to the left.
I doubt that your eyes are playing tricks on you. Lots of pros use more topspin or kick for a second serve, so you're seeing them locate the toss more to the left than where they locate it for a flatter first serve. A topspin/kick serve can require some back bend to generate the proper swing path and that can be rough on mere mortals like us. A slice/sidespin serve is typically easier on the back. This is the spin serve I coach folks to start working on almost as soon as they start getting comfortable with a basic flat serve.
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
Is the face of the racket closed for a kick serve at impact?
Closed means the highest part of the edge of the racket is farthest ahead in the direction of racket travel. Make that for forward racket travel...
Is there a difference between how closed the racket is at impact for a slice or flat serve vs a kick serve?
Closed means the highest part of the edge of the racket is farthest ahead in the direction of racket travel. Make that for forward racket travel...
Is there a difference between how closed the racket is at impact for a slice or flat serve vs a kick serve?
xFullCourtTenniSx
Hall of Fame
Over the baseline (maybe up to ~3 inches inside if you prefer), and in line with or slightly behind your front heel at the peak of the toss.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
/roger-federer-topspin-slice-serve-56a943623df78cf772a54e3d.jpg)
/roger-federer-kick-serve-56a943625f9b58b7d0f9c67d.jpg)
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
According to tennis investigator / analyst, Jeff Cooper, Pete Sampras tossed his first serve a bit to his left and his a 2nd serve, 60+ cm (2 ft) more to his left. He goes on to say that Roger Federer often contacted his 2nd serve 90+ cm (3 ft) further to the left than his 2nd serve.
/pete-sampras-topspin-slice-serve-56a943633df78cf772a54e43.jpg)
web.archive.org
Should You Use the Same Toss for Different Spin Serves?
Should you use the same toss for different spin serves in tennis? Do pros Pete Sampras, Roger Federer, Samantha Stosur, Andy Roddick, Serena Williams, and Novak Djokovic use the same toss for different spins, or is there a difference between the tosses for their topspin-slice first serves and...
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Tennis Serve Toss For Flat, Top Spin And Slice Serves | Feel Tennis
The correct service toss in tennis is crucial for hitting flat, top spin and slice serves with accuracy, comfort and power. The tricky thing about the ball toss, though, is the consistency of placing the ball in the right spot. So, where do you need to toss the ball for different tennis serves...
www.feeltennis.net
FeelTennis has a bit more conservative diff between 1st & 2nd serve contact positions than Roger but there is still more than just a slight diff between the two
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
In the two images in the previous post, note the contact location relative to the right elbow
I get it but most people aren’t pros and most people aren’t hitting serves with extreme kick. My second serve became a lot better when shifted from that mindset.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Even with non-pros players / students. I would teach a 1st serve toss that is typically between 12 & 1 for flat or slice (primarily sidespin) serves and then between 11 & 12 for topspin, top-slice -- or for kick serves (amateur or elite).
So there can quite a bit of diff between the 2 serves or just a moderate diff.
Yeah i don't disagree with that, I guess I said 6 inches more as a teaching tool to keep things simple. In reality my tosses are probably farther apart than that.
Cashman
Hall of Fame
I hit my toss for my first serve slightly out in front (if I let it drop, it would bounce maybe five inches inside the baseline). I hit the toss for my second serve directly over my head.
I don’t move my toss laterally, and at the rec level I think that is a recipe for problems. The most important thing for me is to keep my toss as simple and reliable as possible.
I don’t move my toss laterally, and at the rec level I think that is a recipe for problems. The most important thing for me is to keep my toss as simple and reliable as possible.
Thanks @SystemicAnomaly for the comprehensive info. I've learnt the toss should be to my left and slightly into the court. I've been practicing it in the lobby and so far I can get it in the spot maybe 10% of the time.
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