3.5 guys BEST chance at reaching 4.0 is to junk, dink, drop, moon, and slice

dannyslicer

dannyslicer

Semi-Pro
4.0 junker will destroy a 3.5 basher
4.5 junker will destroy a 3.5 basher

3.5 basher says but...but...but...junker has ceiling!!
Yea, and that ceiling is FAR higher than your topspin error prone azz will ever reach!

3.5 basher never makes it past 3.5 lifer

FACTS: 3.5 guys BEST chance at reaching 4.0 is to junk, dink, drop, moon, and slice
 
dannyslicer said:
4.0 junker will destroy a 3.5 basher
4.5 junker will destroy a 3.5 basher

3.5 basher says but...but...but...junker has ceiling!!
Yea, and that ceiling is FAR higher than your topspin error prone azz will ever reach!

3.5 basher never makes it past 3.5 lifer

FACTS: 3.5 guys BEST chance at reaching 4.0 is to junk, dink, drop, moon, and slice
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did mom kick you out of the basement?
 
Curious said:
4.5s, what you think?


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That’s why my definition of pusher is so good. Injecting pace less than 33% of the time during neutral.

the venom on the ball is made up of speed, spin and location.

all 4.5's can inject that well, during neutral, consistently... that may just be the best definition of a 4.5

If you take @GSG , for example, he injects some underspin but a lot of location venom. On the opposite side of the spectrum, Kevin L, who lost to MFP, injects pace and spin but not much location. Consistent venom—that's the commonality.

in coop hit I am a sweet partner, medium pace/height down the middle every time. we play score I will entertain you with the most annoying shyt.. moon balls over head high, slices at angle low.. and if you miss-hit my moon ball I am coming in, 120 volleys on the wall without missing, good luck pass me. don't move well north south? I got dessert for you - drop shots from both wings. lobs are average though.

both these guys can be called 'topspin pushers'.. it's far safer to inject spin and location than to inject pace. there maybe some pace increase but as a by-product of injecting spin. also think 'location' in 3 dimensions - depth, width, and HEIGHT, which both guys do very well.

 
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I personally know at least two 3.5s who try to play with modern technique. Both were 3.5s because they hit pretty well, but their fundamentals weren't sound enough to make 4 balls in a row. Within the last year, both have been computer bumped to 4.0 as they've improved in some of those areas.
 
If you are self-learned and no one taught you a proper swing with fast swing speed and extension along with proper footwork to have an uniform contact point, hitting heavy topspin to targets that bothers your opponents while maintaining consistency is always going to be beyond your reach. So, these players might as well hit the variety of junk shots possible to execute with their bent-arm bunt swing and bad spacing to play somewhere close to their ceiling. If they have good movement they will progress more than others. But no one is going to look like an advanced player to spectators who are watching.

Also a big part of advanced tennis is using your serve to set up optimal point patterns and again if no one teaches you a textbook service motion, the chance of being a good server is quite low.
 
I think he has some good points if you are climbing up from 3.5 and are anointed a 4.5 by just grinding up to that level. Maybe where he lives a lot of 4.5 players are like he describes by looping balls in with consistency . If you take a big city or big tennis area, there a re a lot of self rate 4.5 college players and those beaten down from 5.0 who never were 3.5 or 4.0 when starting USTA and they definitely have more variety in shots, bomb and place serves, etc., there are plenty of 4.5 players that can do that in these environments.
 
dannyslicer said:
FACTS: 3.5 guys BEST chance at reaching 4.0 is to junk, dink, drop, moon, and slice
Click to expand...
best chance to reach a good level to enjoy the game in it's entirety is to learn all the shots... junk, dink, drop, moon, slice, heavy drive, flat drive, half volley, volley, tweeners, etc...
learning one and ignoring others.. is like saying you only need to learn to add & subtract to crush the multipliers and dividers..
 
nyta2 said:
best chance to reach a good level to enjoy the game in it's entirety is to learn all the shots... junk, dink, drop, moon, slice, heavy drive, flat drive, half volley, volley, tweeners, etc...
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The typical 3.5 calls that fake tennis
That's why MEP gets no respect from clueless low level hacks
 
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dannyslicer said:
The typical 3.5 calls that fake tennis
That's why MEP gets no respect from clueless low level hacks
Click to expand...
ah, i see your point...
having been a victim of junk ballers (slicers/dicers/dinkers/lobbers/no-pacers/etc...), i'm a fan of the style of play, and prompted me to learn how to use that style and eventually learn some tools & tactics to counter it...
IMO silly for anyone to belittle either style (junk baller vs. basher for example), if you lose to it and/or can't implement it...
in the end, your/my game is incomplete if you can't implement both styles and/or can't counter both styles... regardless of how "pretty" you can make any style look.
i need to use whatever style (tactic/strat) is effective... else i'm doing it the hard way...

that said, i understand the psychology of topspinners bashing the junker... cuz it takes alot focused of time and effort (lessons!) to learn to hit topspin technique with a fair amount of consistency/effectiveness... where the junker often does not appear to have any technique/not take lessons/etc...

but what topspinners fail to see (or in my case, what *I* failed to see "back in the day"), is that it also takes alot of time and effort to learn touch...
for me, it's more difficult to acquire the"feel" at the same level of consistency/depth control/direction as my topspin shots

most "pyramid of (tennis) learning" i've seen look like this:
<from the bottom>
1. consistency
2. depth
3. direction
4. power
5. touch

at some level, i'm gonna guess by utr8-9, (generally speaking) it becomes difficult for a (mostly) touch player to counter a (mostly) power player
there are obviously exceptions at the pro level of unconventional players (that implement more touch than most - eg. santoro, hseih, jabeur, gaston) that make a living "junk balling" lower level tour folks...
heck even "power" players like fed/graf/carlito have sensationalized the value of touch shots that the meps of the world have been using to humble bashers like me.

it's safe to ignore anyone who's sentence starts with {hacker, pusher, <insert pejorative>,...}

for the rest of us/me, let's get to utr9+ first, then we've earned the right to trash talk... but imo, by having gone through the gauntlet, on the road to utr9+, we all would have already developed a healthy respect for all styles that have beaten us...
 
It may take more time and resources to develop a topspin or bashing game, but Im certain we underestimate the physical fitness of the junker/pusher. I met one guy who was pudgy playing a junk baller style and he had been athletic, jgging, bikng but after a crash, gained weigh. On the other hand I have seen many bashers who are out of shape.

in my opinion, if you’re a junk baller and out of shape, you move to doubles.
btw my fitness needs improvemen and thats why I rush the net in singles...
 
travlerajm said:
They would, but pickleball bans S&V and and doesn’t allow volleying from the net.
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Its called Paddle over here. Not sure if you can S&V but the older players with mobility issues really seem to like it.

Anyhow. the best way for a 3.5 to reach > 4.0 is to take lessons from a tennis coach. Now there's a thought :unsure:
 
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I think playing traditional sound stroke patterns including moderate topspin drives is the best way for most of us to improve. I don't think a 3.5 junk baller has an advantage over a 3.5 traditional player in reaching 4.0. A good junk ball player like MEP requires a lot of practice, coordination and athleticism. A good traditional stroke player requires a lot of practice, coordination and athleticism. I think the traditional stroke player has a slight advantage in that good fundamentals should increase your consistency, placement and power. Yea, a really good junk baller can win but overall, you see better looking more fundamentally sound strokes the higher you go in level.
 
3.5s who take lessons or have played other sports at a high level (college, semi-pro or pro) can become good players with topspin shots. The self-learning 3.5 players who also refuse to practice and have never been good at other sports are more likely to get to 4.0 with an unconventional variety of shots as they will have unconventional technique that has a low ceiling for generating high RPM topspin shots.
 
nyta2 said:
ah, i see your point...
having been a victim of junk ballers (slicers/dicers/dinkers/lobbers/no-pacers/etc...), i'm a fan of the style of play, and prompted me to learn how to use that style and eventually learn some tools & tactics to counter it...
IMO silly for anyone to belittle either style (junk baller vs. basher for example), if you lose to it and/or can't implement it...
in the end, your/my game is incomplete if you can't implement both styles and/or can't counter both styles... regardless of how "pretty" you can make any style look.
i need to use whatever style (tactic/strat) is effective... else i'm doing it the hard way...

that said, i understand the psychology of topspinners bashing the junker... cuz it takes alot focused of time and effort (lessons!) to learn to hit topspin technique with a fair amount of consistency/effectiveness... where the junker often does not appear to have any technique/not take lessons/etc...

but what topspinners fail to see (or in my case, what *I* failed to see "back in the day"), is that it also takes alot of time and effort to learn touch...
for me, it's more difficult to acquire the"feel" at the same level of consistency/depth control/direction as my topspin shots

most "pyramid of (tennis) learning" i've seen look like this:
<from the bottom>
1. consistency
2. depth
3. direction
4. power
5. touch

at some level, i'm gonna guess by utr8-9, (generally speaking) it becomes difficult for a (mostly) touch player to counter a (mostly) power player
there are obviously exceptions at the pro level of unconventional players (that implement more touch than most - eg. santoro, hseih, jabeur, gaston) that make a living "junk balling" lower level tour folks...
heck even "power" players like fed/graf/carlito have sensationalized the value of touch shots that the meps of the world have been using to humble bashers like me.

it's safe to ignore anyone who's sentence starts with {hacker, pusher, <insert pejorative>,...}

for the rest of us/me, let's get to utr9+ first, then we've earned the right to trash talk... but imo, by having gone through the gauntlet, on the road to utr9+, we all would have already developed a healthy respect for all styles that have beaten us...
Click to expand...
Well said.
I play real man tennis.
I get my ass kicked by 4.5 junkers like MEP
Hence, big respect.
Playing 4.0 basher tennis is easy. 2 years.
Being a 4.0/4.5 junker takes decades of work.
 
dannyslicer said:
Playing 4.0 basher tennis is easy. 2 years.
Being a 4.0/4.5 junker takes decades of work.
Click to expand...
i don't know about "easy", both styles takes quite a few years of work to get to a utr6.0+ level
that said, it is easy to *look like* an ntrp4.0 in a cooperative hit (especially with a partner that can put it in your strikezone every time), then go around claiming "i'm an ntrp4.0 cuz i practice with other ntrp4.0''s"
(hence why i prefer referring to utr, which is only based on match results... not self rates)
 
Just like at every other level below 5.0 (and probably beyond there as well) the player with better footwork will most likely win at 3.5 mostly regardless of technique.
 
nyta2 said:
ah, i see your point...
having been a victim of junk ballers (slicers/dicers/dinkers/lobbers/no-pacers/etc...), i'm a fan of the style of play, and prompted me to learn how to use that style and eventually learn some tools & tactics to counter it...
IMO silly for anyone to belittle either style (junk baller vs. basher for example), if you lose to it and/or can't implement it...
in the end, your/my game is incomplete if you can't implement both styles and/or can't counter both styles... regardless of how "pretty" you can make any style look.
i need to use whatever style (tactic/strat) is effective... else i'm doing it the hard way...

that said, i understand the psychology of topspinners bashing the junker... cuz it takes alot focused of time and effort (lessons!) to learn to hit topspin technique with a fair amount of consistency/effectiveness... where the junker often does not appear to have any technique/not take lessons/etc...

but what topspinners fail to see (or in my case, what *I* failed to see "back in the day"), is that it also takes alot of time and effort to learn touch...
for me, it's more difficult to acquire the"feel" at the same level of consistency/depth control/direction as my topspin shots

most "pyramid of (tennis) learning" i've seen look like this:
<from the bottom>
1. consistency
2. depth
3. direction
4. power
5. touch

at some level, i'm gonna guess by utr8-9, (generally speaking) it becomes difficult for a (mostly) touch player to counter a (mostly) power player
there are obviously exceptions at the pro level of unconventional players (that implement more touch than most - eg. santoro, hseih, jabeur, gaston) that make a living "junk balling" lower level tour folks...
heck even "power" players like fed/graf/carlito have sensationalized the value of touch shots that the meps of the world have been using to humble bashers like me.

it's safe to ignore anyone who's sentence starts with {hacker, pusher, <insert pejorative>,...}

for the rest of us/me, let's get to utr9+ first, then we've earned the right to trash talk... but imo, by having gone through the gauntlet, on the road to utr9+, we all would have already developed a healthy respect for all styles that have beaten us...
Click to expand...
Hseih was ranked #23 WTA and #1 in dubs. Not just "low level tour folks"
 
dannyslicer said:
Hseih was ranked #23 WTA and #1 in dubs. Not just "low level tour folks"
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hehe, i have my mind from agassi/spadea book, that if you're not competing for titles, you're a "journeyman" (agassi was referring to spadea, highest ranking #18, as a journeyman)

anywho, my point was that a hseih can beat alot of players with her style, but have yet to see that style win a gs
and us rec folks of course always tend to compare our style and/or mimic the style of our favorite GS winners, so therefore tend to put ourselves in the non-journey category (eg. and putting the mep's of the world into the "journeyman" category),
without recognizing the reality, which is that we would all be lucky to even come close to becoming an actual journeyman, regardless the style we play :P
 
nyta2 said:
hehe, i have my mind from agassi/spadea book, that if you're not competing for titles, you're a "journeyman" (agassi was referring to spadea, highest ranking #18, as a journeyman)

anywho, my point was that a hseih can beat alot of players with her style, but have yet to see that style win a gs
and us rec folks of course always tend to compare our style and/or mimic the style of our favorite GS winners, so therefore tend to put ourselves in the non-journey category (eg. and putting the mep's of the world into the "journeyman" category),
without recognizing the reality, which is that we would all be lucky to even come close to becoming an actual journeyman, regardless the style we play :p
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Hseih has won 9 Grand Slam titles.
 
dannyslicer said:
Hseih has won 9 Grand Slam titles.
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as much as i love dubs... and am decent at it, and was what got me bumped to 5.0 last year...
#1. a dubs GS is not on the same level as a singles GS...
#2. you know very well that 99.9% of folks on this thread are talking about singles junker vs. basher...

anywho, i love hseih's game, and could only dream to play like her, singles or doubles...
 
@dannyslicer Curious is a comfortable 4.0. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise but that said most of your posts fall into that realm.

You shouldn't denigrate players with the courage to do what you can not.
 
Jono123 said:
@dannyslicer Curious is a comfortable 4.0. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise but that said most of your posts fall into that realm.

You shouldn't denigrate players with the courage to do what you can not.
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@Curious is a textbook strong 3.0
Can't keep a ball in play beyond 3 shots.
Ratings are about match play, not stroke polishing.
Unless he has improved lately?
Has he posted a set of match play recently?
 
dannyslicer said:
@Curious is a textbook strong 3.0
Can't keep a ball in play beyond 3 shots.
Ratings are about match play, not stroke polishing.
Unless he has improved lately?
Has he posted a set of match play recently?
Click to expand...
You have zero credibility at this point. If C is 3.0 your are a 1.5. Your not half the player he is.
 
Most club players are 4.0 other than social rec players who tend to stick with similar. Curious is certainly not in that bracket and no I have not seen any match play but enough footage to categorise him.

We have not seen anything from you, period. Whether you post any or not is your prerogative but it makes your frequent critique of others baseless.
 
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Jono123 said:
We have not seen anything from you, period. Whether you post any or not is your prerogative but it makes your frequent critique of others baseless.
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Maybe you’ve missed them. Apparently you joined here when he was using his second account. This is his third one.

Edit. This is actually his fourth account here!
 
Curious said:
Maybe you’ve missed them. Apparently you joined here when he was using his second account. This is his third one.

Edit. This is actually his fourth account here!
Click to expand...
Was that Fiddlerdog by any chance?

Edit: Oh right, its the same character. It all makes sense now.
 
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