3.5 -- How hard should my first serve be?

E

EuroMagnum

Rookie
In MPH preferably... I clocked my serve at my club the other day because they set up a radar at the net and my fastest was 88 MPH. Is that good, bad or average for a strong 3.5 player?
 
i think that's good and impressive for a 3.5 player , but you better provide us with more info , most importantly your height ???
 
I'm almost 17 years old, about 6'1, 140 lbs. I use Eastern FH grip on serves (wrong and bad I know, but how can I change when i've developed so much with it?).
 
look from what i know it's dificult and not preferable to change to a different grip after developing sloid strokes with it so that you'd spend a lot of time developing your strokes with it up to the level you were , but also sticking to a false technique can result in stopping your progress at a given level without ever improving , so you might think that you have done very good with your eastern while you never really know if you'd do better with a continental ..

judging that you are 6'1" then i guess you need to develop some more speed and i think that's very obtainable with a slight grip twisting (continental) ..
 
First of all, if you are serious about improving, you are serving with the wrong grip.
So the immediate issue isn't with the speed of your serve right now but technique.

WHy not create yet another thread about how to change to a continental grip? Hopefully Marius comes in and tells you to use the search function.
 
EuroMagnum said:
In MPH preferably... I clocked my serve at my club the other day because they set up a radar at the net and my fastest was 88 MPH. Is that good, bad or average for a strong 3.5 player?
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There seems to be IMO a bit too much fascination with radar clock speeds on serves here. The correct speed of your first serve should be determined by the percent you can hit in, not a radar gun. Naturally this is going to vary for singles vs doubles.

Another thought. The "speed" of your serve from your opponent's perspective will vary depending on what he is expecting. In other words, if you have hit three slices in a row, your 88 MPH flat serve will appear faster to him, than if you have just hit three flat serves in a row. The ability of a good opponent to adjust to your best serve will probably be better than your ability to keep cranking up the speed. Therefore you have to learn to mix it up, even if your name is Roddick...
 
That speed sounds great if you can hit it with accuracy.

If you have a solid heater that you can land, you only need to hit one or two for every game or two that you serve so that your receiving opponent will be backed up and looking to make a more defensive return off your first serve. Now the window is open for you to land more first serves with spin and you can dictate points more regularly.

I'll occasionally smack a hard second serve, too, just to keep my opponent guessing. It's especially effective when they want to routinely pound a second serve return and even run around their backhand. Even if I'm risking a double fault, it can be a good tone setter early on when they see that I have the option to serve big at any time. Mix it up and you'll keep the initiative on your racquet more often.
 
you definitely need to change to continental. Just because you did it for a while doesn't mean you can't change. I would suggest just holding it in continental and dribbling it around a bit. Get your wrist used to it. Then start serving with that.

I used the eastern grip for my serves for 1 year and changed after that. My sister has been using it for 2 years and is now changing.
 
EuroMagnum said:
I'm almost 17 years old, about 6'1, 140 lbs. I use Eastern FH grip on serves (wrong and bad I know, but how can I change when i've developed so much with it?).
Click to expand...

When you've developed 'so much' with it? 88 mph is not that fast for a 17 year old. Most of our juniors serve at 100...BUT they use a continental grip. (I have one girl, 17, who serves 110mph.)

But the bigger question should be, what is your second serve like? At the 3.5 level, there are a gazillion players who serve much faster than you...but, typical of this level, they hit a 25 mph second serve.

If you are only 17, start working NOW on developing the right grip and using it not just to develop a better first serve, but a weapon of a second serve with kick, topspin and slice.
 
Tennismastery said:
When you've developed 'so much' with it? 88 mph is not that fast for a 17 year old. Most of our juniors serve at 100...BUT they use a continental grip. (I have one girl, 17, who serves 110mph.)

But the bigger question should be, what is your second serve like? At the 3.5 level, there are a gazillion players who serve much faster than you...but, typical of this level, they hit a 25 mph second serve.

If you are only 17, start working NOW on developing the right grip and using it not just to develop a better first serve, but a weapon of a second serve with kick, topspin and slice.
Click to expand...


Im 15 and have had high 90's recorded, when i was 14 i hit 94 recorded oh and 4 in a row at 89 with a wee guy's prince shark db junior (26inch)
 
Tennismastery said:
At the 3.5 level, there are a gazillion players who serve much faster than you...but, typical of this level, they hit a 25 mph second serve.
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With all due respect, I completely disagree--and this is from experience. I have taken my radar gun out to the courts to record 3.5-5.5's.

Most 3.5 players don't hit the 88 mph mark. They rarely hit the 80 mph mark. On average they are well below that>>between 60-70 mph.
 
yea I'm 3.5 and I fail to have a serve thats faster than 80 mph. But I'm 5 feet 5 and only 14 with no puberty so I hope that excuses me. So I rely more on kick, slice, and placement, which is what I excel in.
 
dave333, very funny post! :) You still have a lot of growing to do, so don't worry --- you will get there.
 
drakulie said:
With all due respect, I completely disagree--and this is from experience. I have taken my radar gun out to the courts to record 3.5-5.5's.

Most 3.5 players don't hit the 88 mph mark. They rarely hit the 80 mph mark. On average they are well below that>>between 60-70 mph.
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This was written 'tongue in cheek'-- that most 3.5 players can swing hard enough to manage 88mph...of course, they seldom keep the ball in the court, let alone the service box. The point I was trying to make, (a point obviously lost on your perception of my post), was that most 3.5 while can and often swing HARD at their first serve yet they seldom can hit an effective second serve with any pace.

I have 10 year olds who serve over 80 mph...so, if the typical 3.5 can't hit these numbers, then it is obviously a lack of technique and not strength, size, or age!
 
I think one should focus first on the ball placement and body motion first. After you can serve into the box with ease without using much strength, i.e., you can toss the ball easily and hit the ball to the box consistently, then you start to work on the speed of the ball.

look at pros when they practice before a match. if i can serve in a game like they practice, i'd be more than happy. :D
 
88 is a fine speed, if you can place it somewhat and get it in at least half of the time. I see some heaters around 85 but it comes right down the middle of the box to my forehand, I dont have to move one bit, it comes right at my strike zone then thats useless. your better off hitting a 75 mph slice out wide, it a 65 mph high kicker to push him back.
 
EuroMagnum said:
In MPH preferably... I clocked my serve at my club the other day because they set up a radar at the net and my fastest was 88 MPH. Is that good, bad or average for a strong 3.5 player?
Click to expand...
If you aren't breaking a racquet everytime you hit it, then it's not worth posting :P

In all seriousness, though, that's plenty fast. If you work on your placement and consistency, that'll make it extremely effective even if the speed should dip a little :)
 
I guess as long as it works.... I can place it vaguely (either out wide or down the T, I can't place it any more exact than that and I don't really have much depth control).

After seeing a pro at my club hit a 124 MPH serve, i'm really inspired to switch to Continental, because while my serve feels natural with the Eastern, it seems i've hit a plateau and I can never get up to that speed without Continental. And holy christ did someone say a 14 year old girl hit a serve 100 MPH+? Move over Maria Sharapova....

Anyway, thanks for the replies, i'll keep working on my grip and try to improve my placement and control.
 
I'd rather have a serve that I can direct to any spot in the service box 99 out of a 100 times but only goes 50 MPH than a 100 MPH serve that goes in 1 out of a 100 times.

The only time that 100 MPH serve is worth a damn is if you can get it in a good percentage of the time or some girls are watching. ;)
 
EuroMagnum said:
In MPH preferably... I clocked my serve at my club the other day because they set up a radar at the net and my fastest was 88 MPH. Is that good, bad or average for a strong 3.5 player?
Click to expand...

It is pretty good. I am 3.5 and only gotten to 80 mph.
 
That's about normal for a young strong 3.5 male player. My old (he's 50) 3.5 doubles partner had a good first serve he could also place pretty well and he was clocked at 90mph. I could serve over 100mph when I was 3.5 and have recently been clocked at 110mph as a 4.0. Some guys only serve 60-70mph at the 3.5 level so there is a big range, but most importantly is to get your serves in and win with consistent groundstrokes.

Another strong 3.5 I know had his serve clocked at 102MPH. He is not tall, 5'8, but very athletic.
 
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The speed is fine, as far as I'm concerned. You do need to get to the continental grip somehow. Just curious how you teens get an NTRP rating? None of the teens around here are rated, although many are sectionally and nationally ranked, by age.
 
Eh... 88 miles.. you need to change to continental grip. You will get so much more power. I just turned 14 and I can hit 145 kmph serves in which is around 90 miles per hour. I know of people my age which can serve way faster than me...I don't know my NTRP though.. I'm Aussie and we don't really have this...
 
Hit whatever serve gets you about 50% or more of your first serves in, otherwise you risk DFs and have your opponent move in to attack your second serves. 3.5 tennis is about getting serves in. Most 4.0s I know have consistent serves although not usually big ones. But they don't beat themselves.
 
50%? If you want to win matches/sets I say you need about 60% and up.
To put it in other words: A good first serve is the possibility of an "easy" point for you. A good second serve is only a neutraliser - You rarely ace with 2nd serves.

Also a great 2nd serve can be much more important than a flashy 1st serve. Cause if you mishit that 1st one, and have a good returner on the other side - There is a chance that you might lose almost every 2nd serve points.

At last, placement and spin is much more important than raw speed. I bet that after switching to continental you can hit those speeds at much more ease. And after considering good placement and variety you will get more aces and more easy returns. :)
 
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