3 months for Sinner, 6 years for Barquero

Again, I am not a lawyer. I can only speak for the medicine here.

“he uses”. Sinner didn’t use. He was contaminated by his trainer. Whether you are the direct agent of your mistake matters a lot. Hence the outcry saying Sinner uses his trainer as fault man by many here.
If he is so so smart, he could have picked anyone better than his team member to avoid being fault for his trainer’s sentinel event. Mind you, if you look at the medical angle, sinner is the patient (receiving massage) and he suffers from this sentinel event and has to pay for it due to strict sport liability. However I think this concept is too alien for the public.

For purposes of the WADA Code he did use.

There are words as normal people use them, there are local Bolivian dialects and there are WADA Code defined terms.

Sinner was charged with a violation of Code 2.1 (presence) and Code 2.2 (use). He admitted both violations. “Use” is broadly defined in the Code. If you test positive unless you can successfully challenge the test results (e.g., tainted, B sample tests negative) they got you on both charges. :sneaky:

The word is not perjorative like hurtful anti-Sinner posters may use it. They just want to pick up any way it gets into your body.

Bold added:

Use: The utilization, application, ingestion, injection or consumption by any means whatsoever of any Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method.
 
I believe WADA settled to avoid what they knew to be a certain one year minimum ban and even RSJfan argued that CAS would come to this conclusion.

The CAS was not involved in the Sinner case. And you don´t know what the CAS would have decided in the Sinner case. In fact, nobody knows. And nobody will ever know. What were you trying to say?
 
Well, this pharmacist knew exactly that the spray contains Clostebol and has a doping warning label on it. He told the physio about it.

Yet they brought this thing to tournament. Deliberate act.

There are some factual errors and missing key details here. If you are up for a civil debate like we are in court and you represent WADA and wants 1-2 or 4 years ban. I will explain why Jannik Sinner has a strong case. let's correct the facts first.
Quoted from ITIA's document on Sinner's case:
Line 38: Pharmacist (or Ferrarar) recommend Naldi (physio) to use Trofodermin for his cut. There is discrepancy between pharmacist and physio whether a warning was given (as everyone wants to protect their *ss) but for strict liability, let’s say pharmacist did.
Line 39: Canister of spray was removed from package. Physio admits he did not check the contents of the spray or see the label. So this is physio mistake. Mr. Naldi states that he had no knowledge that the spray contained Clostebol. (he is after-all not a pharmacist).

A lot of people think Sinner story is ridiculous mainly because his contamination is a massage from his trainer. This is emphasized again and again by Kyrios and co. I actually think it is probably the strongest point of his case.

Let's say Vokazu represents WADA and this is his argument. It is impossible that this pharmacist does not know clostebol is a doping agent, and this a "deliberate" act. In fact, pharmD DOES know. But that is not the point of an argument. as a healthcare professional, if I were to testify in court, to me it is very plausible for a trained healthcare professional to make mistakes. To put this in perspective, have you ever experienced or know anyone who experienced medical errors? it is more common than you think.

Do you think we don't label drugs in the hospital, and we don't pass exams to administer these drugs? Silly mistakes (or sentinel events) happen all the time. People die from them. A physio is unlikely to have the knowledge of transdermal of cross contamination of infinitesimal small amount. (He doesn't even know if the unlabeled tube contains clostebol). A pharmacist might know about these new studies about cross contamination, or he might NOT know. He gave Sinner's trainer that OTC, not Sinner himself. Pharmacist probably thinks he has fulfilled his responsibility. It is like a doctor made no mistakes directly to his patient, but a nurse when receiving an unclear order from a doctor, can still harm the patient (because nursing does not have complex medical knowledge).

You can choose the best doctor (or pharmacist/trainer) but you can't guarantee that doctor won't make mistakes. Can you possibly blame yourself for picking certain hospitals or medical teams? I work in a quaternary medical center, and most M&M cases are all easily preventable events.

Honestly, at-fault athletes presented so many stories that involved non-professionals. Stories are like accidentally kissing, having sex, eating from my mom's food, using lip balms. No one really ever use team member's argument as it hits too close to anti-doping most sacred rule, strict liability. But actually to medical professionals, it is actually quite plausible. Plausibility is probably the most subjective thing in law - but I would argue most important thing if you want to win a case.

Jannik Sinner who probably doesn't even receive high school education probably won't understand the concept of sentinel event or the Swiss cheese model of accidental causation, but a very darn good JD will able to use them and win Mr. Sinner's his case in front of CAS.

(and I don't even need to evoke the fact that the quantitative amounts in both 8-day apart positive tests are really not scientifically enough to have any advantage.)

It is not coincidental that WADA came up with an offer after receiving Sinner's legal team defense arguments.

(if anyone even read till this line, then you probably did read at least half of the 33 paged Jannik Sinner's legal proceedings)
 
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A must-read for the sadly gullible folks of the Sinfandom.
Funny enough, I did read it. This person really compared a case of topical steroid with EPO which stimulate red blood cell production (a bit laughable). Not only that but an EPO direct administration instead of topical steroid contamination are not apple to apple.

I explained above why strict liability is not the point why WADA does not have a strong case. They actually do have very STRONG case for strict liability but weak case for other things. hence they only get the three months. Again, fixating on strict liability is like obsessing over strict interpretation of the constitution. Won't win you case in the court of law. as most sentences are determined by plausibility.

Foot note: "And why did the masseur spray so much Clostebol on such a small finger wound that it was enough for two positive doping tests in the amount measured?" is an extremely ignorant thing to say for a doping expert. Transdermal contamination is an established fact. it can transfer simply by shaking hands let along a massage. and this physio applied to his finger daily for over a week (line 40 in proceedings). A simple pubmed from peer-reviewed journal will do the job. You don't have to trust whatever authority since you discredit all kind of authorities anyways (who cares about Fritz Sörgel if you don't trust three tribunal courts and WADA scientists. They are all part of the establishment and corruption and everyone is for their agendas. Ms Sorgel probably does not even read the report.)

But if you do care about science:
(PMC11668582) https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11668582/

Discussion section is helpful: “The transdermal application of clostebol acetate can produce detectable amounts of metabolites in urine, even after a single exposure. Depending on the protocols, the main clostebol metabolite (4-chloro-androst-4-en-3α-ol-17-one, M1) was found to be detectable up to 30–40 ng/ml (at peak concentration) for more than 10 days. In other studies, the transfer of clostebol from one subject to another occurred during hand shaking or sexual intercourse.”

Citations 19 and 20:

19.Gessner L, Thevis M, Rothschild MA, Jübner M. Detectability of oxandrolone, metandienone, clostebol and dehydrochloromethyltestosterone in urine after transdermal application. Drug Test Anal. (2022) 14(10):1744–61. 10.1002/dta.3355 [DOI] [PubMed] [Google Scholar]

20.Kintz P, Gheddar L. Acétate de clostébol (Trofodermin®): vérification du passage transdermique d’un anabolisant souvent impliqué dans les affaires de dopage. Toxicol Anal Clin. (2024) 36(4):317–22. 10.1016/j.toxac.2024.10.001 [DOI] [Google Scholar]

WADA statement: https://www.wada-ama.org/en/resourc.../detection-clostebol-sports-accidental-doping

Bottom line is read research papers in addition to tweets if you do care about doping issues in sport.
 
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Bublik is correct. He'd be initially banned for 8 years and then get it reduced to 4.
to phrase Nadal, that is a lot of ifs for something doesnt exist. He is a tennis player. Not lawyer or judge. or neither should any tennis player pretend to be one. We don't even have same sentences for killing people, you think we have same sentences for positive doping tests. To say that is to know nothing about law.

Also Mr. FeroBango, instead of just spreading tweets from toxic accounts on X. how about you respond to people who challenge your intellect?

Bublik clearly didn't read the WADA statements. Official statement from WADA from BBC: https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/articles/cdxexxl936vo

"Since adding that provision to Wada's rules, Wenzel believes about 67 resolution agreements have come into effect.

"I checked this this morning and and it might be one or two out, but I counted 67 since the provision came into force in January 2021,""

Remember that skater case you all posted, it was also a case of resolution offer but i believe she declined it at first and ultimately accepted it.

You are lucky I am on my 28-hour call and have all the time the world to expose all misinformation on X. You don't bother to fact check these things.

if we can just say whatever on X to make law and defend legality, we can all make six figures just staying home to tweet.
 
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