37.9/38 year old Federer has completely outplayed GOAT candidate Djokovic this season

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Trolling aside, it is kind of crazy Fed’s broken Djokovic 10 times in two matches while Djokovic has managed just the 3 breaks of serve. Not the numbers you would expect.
It shows that Novak's return of serve has declined and he is not peaking in his 30's. All those losses to Next Gen were not accidents and due to Novak lacking motivation.
 
D

Deleted member 765702

Guest
Doesn't matter. It was a great effort, a wonderful display at that age in a Wimbledon final against his great rival. But he still lost. When it mattered, Djokovic refused to be beaten.

The important thing is... This was some heavy metal tennis tonight. :cool::cool:
 

Krish0608

Legend
Trolling aside, it is kind of crazy Fed’s broken Djokovic 10 times in two matches while Djokovic has managed just the 3 breaks of serve. Not the numbers you would expect.
Federer was the better player in their last 3 matches. Djokovic was the more clutch player in Paris and Wimbledon though. This victory at least heals, if it doesn't make up for it.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Federer was the better player in their last 3 matches. Djokovic was the more clutch player in Paris and Wimbledon though. This victory at least heals, if it doesn't make up for it.
He has to beat Novak in a slam to fully get healed.

This was a great win, but it has to translate to a slam win against Novak, otherwise it is meaningless.
 

Terry Tibbs

Hall of Fame
I disagree. Fed is doing nothing special, when you see how many longevity records Nadal is now breaking (he's now the oldest player ever to be year end no.1).

If Fed was some sort of outlier, I'd agree, but there has been a generational shift that is allowing playerd to perform at the highest level in their 30's.

I'm a Nadal fan, and I don"t spend all day talking about his age or gloating about his longevity records, because I recognise it's the new normal in tennis.
So Nadal is breaking a load of longevity records. What else other than the year end No 1 then? Cant think of any. He maybe 33 and getting on a bit himself but he is still a significant 5yrs younger than Federer. Let's see him win a slam at 36 and have 2 match points to win Wimbledon at almost 38. Cant see it happening. Despite being 5 yrs younger than a man almost 40, he needs a heavily weather effected clay court to beat him these days. On a normal court in normal conditions he has no chance. Federer will beat him again here too if they meet I'm fairly certain.

Federer's level at age 38 simply cannot be understated which is why it gets mentioned so many times.
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
Since 2018 IW:

Slams: Djokovic 4, Nadal 3, Federer 0
Big Titles: Djokovic 8, Nadal 8, Federer 1

It's a hard time Fed fans but stay strong, stay classy, don't open threads like this.
 
It shows that Novak's return of serve has declined and he is not peaking in his 30's. All those losses to Next Gen were not accidents and due to Novak lacking motivation.
Probably suggests his serve, or at least service game, has declined, too! That's a lot of service games to drop on relatively fast courts. Overall, I'd say it's likely more about following up after the serve than the serve itself, as serve is in general a shot that improves very late into players' careers because it's mostly about technique and strength and not about the athletic skills that affect other aspects of the game more quickly. But it could be that if he's not as flexible as he was, he's having more trouble timing his service motion. I haven't noticed that but it's possible. The shoulder problems may have been a factor today, but I only saw a very small amount of the match so I have no way of knowing.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Agreed. Although that'll be extremely hard to do.
I believe Fed can do it. This Novak is not at his absolute best and can be beaten. Even that fearsome return of serve is not what it once was.

It will be hard, but i feel Fed has more to say before he calls it quits. He just has to believe in himself and not choke like an idiot.
 

jm1980

G.O.A.T.
AND at 38 years of age has won MORE THAN HALF of all points played between the two. Federer has 49.4%of all points vs. Nadal, while Djokovic has won 49.6%of points vs. Federer.

Djokovic wasn’t better at any aspect of the game against a 38 year old man who thoroughly dominated the Serbian champion twice this season. Novak was lucky the old man got nervous and handed a match to Novak that was on the Swiss GOAT’s racket the entire time.

At Wimbledon

Total points: 218 to 204 in favor of Federer

• Breaking serve: 7 times for Federer, 3 times for Djokovic
• Receiving points won: 79 for Federer, 64 for Djokovic
• Dominance Ratio: 1.16 in favor of Federer
• Winners: 94 for Federer, 54 for Djokovic
• FH winners from baseline: 18 for Fed, 14 for Djokovic
• BH winners from baseline: 7 for Fed, 8 for Djokovc
• Volley winners: 22 for Federer, 3 for Djokovic

This is the most one player has been better than an opponent in a slam final and still “lost” from matches we have numbers for.

At WTF with #1 on the line for Djokovic

Total points: 67 to 44 in favor of Federer

• Breaking serve: 3 times for Federer, 0 times for Djokovic
• Receiving points won: 29 for Federer, 11 for Djokovic
• Dominance Ratio: 2.14 in favor of Federer

2019 Season

Total points: 285 to 248 in favor of Federer

• Breaking serve: 10 times for Federer, 3 times for Djokovic
• Receiving points won: 108 for Federer, 76 for Djokovic
I am hoping Fed can similarly outplay Djokovic next year, specially in Slams
 

Surion

Hall of Fame
He has to beat Novak in a slam to fully get healed.

This was a great win, but it has to translate to a slam win against Novak, otherwise it is meaningless.
It's not meaningless. It means he won. He is in the semis, Novak is out. It means Rafa finishes the year at no 1, Novak doesn't. It means Roger can still beat Novak.
And don't tell me Novak didn't care. This was an important match for him.
 
Can we stop with the age thing for Fed?

Happy for him he beat Djokovic after so long, but in tennis terms, Djokovic is considered a senior citizen as well.

The old rules no longer apply. Djokovic and Nadal at 32/33 are doing better than Federer was at the same age. And people were treating Fed like a special ed kid because he played well at 32/33. I wouldn't be surprised if Novak was still able to beat top players at 38 as well.
LOL.

32/33 Nadal and Djokovic are facing 38 Fed.

32 Fed faced prime 25/26 Nadal and Djokovic
 

Krish0608

Legend
I believe Fed can do it. This Novak is not at his absolute best and can be beaten. Even that fearsome return of serve is not what it once was.

It will be hard, but i feel Fed has more to say before he calls it quits. He just has to believe in himself and not choke like an idiot.
To think he had it on his racket @ Wimbledon. Just a swing away. Just an ace away. I don't think I'll get over that loss ever.
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
Federer was the better player in their last 3 matches. Djokovic was the more clutch player in Paris and Wimbledon though. This victory at least heals, if it doesn't make up for it.
In Paris the "better player" (whatever that means for the player that lost)?

Service points: Djokovic 74%, Federer 68%
Return points: Djokovic 32%, Federer 26%
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
It's not meaningless. It means he won. He is in the semis, Novak is out. It means Rafa finishes the year at no 1, Novak doesn't. It means Roger can still beat Novak.
And don't tell me Novak didn't care. This was an important match for him.
Novak obviously cared.

I said this win was a great one, but it has to translate to something even greater, i.e. a slam win to fully have complete meaning. This is Federer we're talking about, not Next Gen. These kinds of victories are stepping stones for GS wins against rivals.
 

Federer and Del Potro

Talk Tennis Guru
Are you seriously moaning about a long established tennis scoring system because Federer was second best on the big points in that final?

This is the finest combination of complaining and grasping at straws I have ever seen.
I still want tennis to be played like so:

Let's have a Sureshian drone drop the ball into play. Neutral balls to neutralize the serve completely.
I want a Sureshian drone to drop a neutral ball in play to forever eliminate servebots
 

ghostofMecir

Hall of Fame
Last 7 slams:

Djokovic 4
Nadal 3
Federer 0
Be thankful Federer is six years older. If it were the other way around, well, Djokovic would be thankful to win slightly less than half the points he’s ever played against Federer.


Also be thankful Federer generously gave away a slam to his much younger opponent.
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
Be thankful Federer is six years older. If it were the other way around, well, Djokovic would be thankful to win slightly less than half the points he’s ever played against Federer.


Also be thankful Federer generously gave away a slam to his much younger opponent.
"Would".

Favourite word of Fed fans.
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
Slam finals, slam semis, yec finals, masters finals --> 8-17

Other matches --> 15-9

Federer cements himself as the best in the least important h2h.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
AND at 38 years of age has won MORE THAN HALF of all points played between the two. Federer has 49.4%of all points vs. Nadal, while Djokovic has won 49.6%of points vs. Federer.

Djokovic wasn’t better at any aspect of the game against a 38 year old man who thoroughly dominated the Serbian champion twice this season. Novak was lucky the old man got nervous and handed a match to Novak that was on the Swiss GOAT’s racket the entire time.

At Wimbledon

Total points: 218 to 204 in favor of Federer

• Breaking serve: 7 times for Federer, 3 times for Djokovic
• Receiving points won: 79 for Federer, 64 for Djokovic
• Dominance Ratio: 1.16 in favor of Federer
• Winners: 94 for Federer, 54 for Djokovic
• FH winners from baseline: 18 for Fed, 14 for Djokovic
• BH winners from baseline: 7 for Fed, 8 for Djokovc
• Volley winners: 22 for Federer, 3 for Djokovic

This is the most one player has been better than an opponent in a slam final and still “lost” from matches we have numbers for.

At WTF with #1 on the line for Djokovic

Total points: 67 to 44 in favor of Federer

• Breaking serve: 3 times for Federer, 0 times for Djokovic
• Receiving points won: 29 for Federer, 11 for Djokovic
• Dominance Ratio: 2.14 in favor of Federer

2019 Season

Total points: 285 to 248 in favor of Federer

• Breaking serve: 10 times for Federer, 3 times for Djokovic
• Receiving points won: 108 for Federer, 76 for Djokovic
Fed had a superlative level much of this year and Miami to Wimbledon he was just a rock.

Overall if one could ignore the Australian Open (where Djoko was superlative), then Fed the moral victor of 2019.
 

Backspin1183

G.O.A.T.
So Nadal is breaking a load of longevity records. What else other than the year end No 1 then? Cant think of any. He maybe 33 and getting on a bit himself but he is still a significant 5yrs younger than Federer. Let's see him win a slam at 36 and have 2 match points to win Wimbledon at almost 38. Cant see it happening. Despite being 5 yrs younger than a man almost 40, he needs a heavily weather effected clay court to beat him these days. On a normal court in normal conditions he has no chance. Federer will beat him again here too if they meet I'm fairly certain.

Federer's level at age 38 simply cannot be understated which is why it gets mentioned so many times.
Yup, Federer is the heavy favourite against Nadal in normal conditions at RG. Nadal got lucky this year. (y):cool:
 
Is this another spin thread that wants us to believe that RF is a divine being that is eternal and peRFect, or is it a serious tennis thread?

The former...

You can spin "facts" all you want, but fact remains that you are ignoring GAS (Great Age Shift), ignoring the fact that Rafa is taking most of the longevity records and ignoring Novak's vast talents and consistency.
 
D

Deleted member 763691

Guest
Michael Jordan made game-winning shots more than Karl Malone, and that is why the Bulls beat Utah in 1997 and 1998.
That is often what decides your level of greatness - clutchness :)
So Djokovic was clearly greater than Federer at Wimbledon this year, and at those US Open SFs too.
Djokovic is not greater than Federer overall, but on those days he was.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
AND at 38 years of age has won MORE THAN HALF of all points played between the two. Federer has 49.4%of all points vs. Nadal, while Djokovic has won 49.6%of points vs. Federer.

Djokovic wasn’t better at any aspect of the game against a 38 year old man who thoroughly dominated the Serbian champion twice this season. Novak was lucky the old man got nervous and handed a match to Novak that was on the Swiss GOAT’s racket the entire time.

At Wimbledon

Total points: 218 to 204 in favor of Federer

• Breaking serve: 7 times for Federer, 3 times for Djokovic
• Receiving points won: 79 for Federer, 64 for Djokovic
• Dominance Ratio: 1.16 in favor of Federer
• Winners: 94 for Federer, 54 for Djokovic
• FH winners from baseline: 18 for Fed, 14 for Djokovic
• BH winners from baseline: 7 for Fed, 8 for Djokovc
• Volley winners: 22 for Federer, 3 for Djokovic

This is the most one player has been better than an opponent in a slam final and still “lost” from matches we have numbers for.

At WTF with #1 on the line for Djokovic

Total points: 67 to 44 in favor of Federer

• Breaking serve: 3 times for Federer, 0 times for Djokovic
• Receiving points won: 29 for Federer, 11 for Djokovic
• Dominance Ratio: 2.14 in favor of Federer

2019 Season

Total points: 285 to 248 in favor of Federer

• Breaking serve: 10 times for Federer, 3 times for Djokovic
• Receiving points won: 108 for Federer, 76 for Djokovic
Hiarious to finally see a Fed fan posting stats. I thought only the rival fan bases did this, since their world revolves around propping up non-GOATS.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
It shows that Novak's return of serve has declined and he is not peaking in his 30's. All those losses to Next Gen were not accidents and due to Novak lacking motivation.
Just yesterday we heard from a VB-er that "Rafa has had more longevity than Fed," and countless Djokovic fans post that he will be playing and winning slams "well into his 40's." It's pointless to point out age to them because their guys aren't 38. And when they both are that age, they won't be on a tennis court, but sipping herbal tea or tequila in the Maldives.
 
Hiarious to finally see a Fed fan posting stats. I thought only the rival fan bases did this, since their world revolves around propping up non-GOATS.
So only Fedfans have the right to hype their idol to fictitious GOATness?

Nah. All three fan blocks can do it. All three have strong arguments.

And by "GOAT" I of course mean GOHE, Greatest of Homogenization Era, not of all time. Because as any rational tennis fan not radicalized by fanboizm knows, eras are not comparable, especially eras distant to each other...
 
Just yesterday we heard from a VB-er that "Rafa has had more longevity than Fed," and countless Djokovic fans post that he will be playing and winning slams "well into his 40's." It's pointless to point out age to them because their guys aren't 38. And when they both are that age, they won't be on a tennis court, but sipping herbal tea or tequila in the Maldives.
Fedfans were saying this about Rafa 15 years ago... "Rafa will play until 27-28 at the most"...
 

Mark-Touch

Hall of Fame
Can you say he really outplayed him at wimbledon when he lost?
Yes you could actually.
If someone from another planet (who didn't know anything about the scoring system) came and watched the match,
they could easily surmise that Fed was the better player, based on the the total number of points won in the match.

(Or someone from this planet who doesn't know anything about how tennis is scored).
 

aditya123

Hall of Fame
The pain that Federer fans experience would be only understood if a young gen player starts showing up and beats Djoker consistently even in slams . One whole generation dint stand up to the Djoker is also true especially from 14-16( may be he was too good).... So its Destiny and no players fault!!!! Just chill
 
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