3D Printed Dunlop Max 200G

[RDM]

Given that the universally admired Dunlop Max 200G is an injection moulded Nylon/Graphite construction, and that the technology of 3D printing is progressing rapidly, it would seem that one day it might be possible to have such a racquet printed to suit your needs.
The graphite filled nylon is already available as a material. The surface finishes leave a little to be desired at the moment, but that's nothing that couldn't be fixed with a little post printing hand work and will improve further in the future anyway I suspect. Costs are probably prohibitive currently but they are coming down quickly. You would need to ensure it was printed in the correct orientation/layup to maximise the strength and best replicate the homogeneous injection moulded equivalent.
Fine tuning to suit your needs could be easily managed if the CAD models are constructed properly. Different frame wall thickness, weight, head size, string patterns would all be able to be modified with a few clicks of the mouse. No need for the singular design expensive injection moulded tooling.
One can only dream I guess.

https://i.imgur.com/kbo2WCz.jpg

 

[Sanglier]

Interesting introductory post and thought exercise!

While there is no doubt that you will be able to print a racquet that is dimensionally identical to the 200G, it won't be an exact clone behaviorally, because the fiber/resin mix available for 3D printing will almost certainly be different from the one used to mold the 200G. For one thing, the length of chopped carbon fibers used for injection molding is on the order of millimeters. I don't know if this is achievable yet in the case of 3D printing. The weight to volume ratio of fiber/resin mix was 30% for the 200G. What is that limit for 3D printing?

The stated aim of the 200G design was to mass produce a high quality fiber-reinforced plastic racquet cheaply and much faster than can be achieved through hand-laying. In contrast, 3D printing is ideal for making one-of-a-kind items, not so much for mass production. If you are going to use this method to make a racquet, your time, money and effort would be better spent making something that doesn't exist, and which can never be made using any other method, instead of something that still shows up regularly on the "Best items you found at thrift stores (Goodwill)?" thread.

Since the specific strength of the printed material will only be a fraction of that of the continuous-fiber-reinforced plastic, your racquet will need a lot of internal structural support to be light enough and strong enough for play. The 200G has its internal pillars surrounding each string hole; the complexity of which is limited by the need to be able to drain out the fusible metal core during the annealing step. You don't have this limitation during 3D printing, and should be able to create an intricate internal architecture that is totally out of reach via all other means.

If I were to print a racquet, I would use different materials for different parts of the frame (something that can't be done with injection molding). I would print the shell using clear polycarbonate, and use different colors to highlight the internal structural elements, in a tasteful manner of course.

 

[RDM]

If nothing else the Dunlop Max 200G is proof of the viability of something like nylon (with additives) to produce a "playable" racquet - and a highly "playable" one at that.
As Sanglier has suggested, the potential with something like 3D printing is that any material deficiencies/limitations inherent in the process itself would be able to be compensated for by building an internal structure design of almost limitless complexity.
Complete personalisation of your racquet would be possible, as would pre printing testing via stress analysis simulation software.
Currently 3D printing is currently not suitable for mass production I know, but things change quickly in this world.

 

[Ultra 2]

What would be nice is we can get those to print out grommets for my classic frames.. that would be a nice start. More feasible too I imagine.

 

[max]

Kind of an amusing thought.

About ten years ago, I thought of having a local firm produce a new version of the Max 200G. They had much of what would be needed (although I think now, it would have been difficult making the metal molds----or so viciously expensive that it would have been a rich man's hobby horse).

The determining question for me, and it kept going back to this, was whether any would sell. It would take hundreds of sales at least. What you have is an 85-sq.inch racquet head, very heavy and with high swing weight. . . this means there really is only a tiny sliver of the playing population that might ever consider it.

 

[TadDavis]

Kind of an amusing thought.

About ten years ago, I thought of having a local firm produce a new version of the Max 200G. They had much of what would be needed (although I think now, it would have been difficult making the metal molds----or so viciously expensive that it would have been a rich man's hobby horse).

The determining question for me, and it kept going back to this, was whether any would sell. It would take hundreds of sales at least. What you have is an 85-sq.inch racquet head, very heavy and with high swing weight. . . this means there really is only a tiny sliver of the playing population that might ever consider it.

Put me down for at least 2.

 

[RDM]

Even low volume tooling for such an enterprise as max has considered would probably run up to a couple of hundred thousand dollars at least. A financial return would not be easily guaranteed.

 

[RDM]

What would be nice is we can get those to print out grommets for my classic frames.. that would be a nice start. More feasible too I imagine.

I'd happily model up a grommet strip for you to get 3D printed for "proof of concept" if you wanted.
It would be very quick/simple to model but I would need a fully dimensioned sketch with accurately measured dimensions in order to do so.

 

[RDM]

Deleted double post.

 

[Ultra 2]

Thanks for your offer, but I’m not sure how I would do this. While I can measure the external dimensions, I am unsure as to what degree of tolerance I need to measure the internal/external grommets holes and the distance between each string placement/position.

A complete rank amateur at this..

 

[RDM]

Thanks for your offer, but I’m not sure how I would do this. While I can measure the external dimensions, I am unsure as to what degree of tolerance I need to measure the internal/external grommets holes and the distance between each string placement/position.

A complete rank amateur at this..

Grommet strips would need to be removed, pegged out flat and measured completely and accurately with a a set of vernier/digital calipers. Measurement accuracy within 0.1 mm would probably do.
A lot to ask it's true.

 

[WestboroChe]

What would be nice is we can get those to print out grommets for my classic frames.. that would be a nice start. More feasible too I imagine.

I’m going to try that. I’ll let you know how it goes.

 

[JoelDali]

Print PS 85 STV grommets and make millions.

 

[WestboroChe]

Given that the universally admired Dunlop Max 200G is an injection moulded Nylon/Graphite construction, and that the technology of 3D printing is progressing rapidly, it would seem that one day it might be possible to have such a racquet printed to suit your needs.
The graphite filled nylon is already available as a material. The surface finishes leave a little to be desired at the moment, but that's nothing that couldn't be fixed with a little post printing hand work and will improve further in the future anyway I suspect. Costs are probably prohibitive currently but they are coming down quickly. You would need to ensure it was printed in the correct orientation/layup to maximise the strength and best replicate the homogeneous injection moulded equivalent.
Fine tuning to suit your needs could be easily managed if the CAD models are constructed properly. Different frame wall thickness, weight, head size, string patterns would all be able to be modified with a few clicks of the mouse. No need for the singular design expensive injection moulded tooling.
One can only dream I guess.

https://i.imgur.com/kbo2WCz.jpg

Given all the time experimentation out there I have to figure someone has tried 3D printing a racquet. A table tennis bat would be a better choice if nothing else but the size.

That said I don’t see why 3D printing of racquets wouldn’t be the next step in racquet technology. But not now. The technology isn’t there yet and racquets just seems like a terrible way to invest a lot of technology. That’s why nowadays you see racquet manufacturers touting fiber fabrics and other materials that aren’t really their own. Textreme Aramid Countervail Kevlar just to name a few. Whereas in the past companies like Dunlop would experiment with their own layups and unique technologies.

The current method of racquet production seems to be well suited to quickly change models for both marketing and engineering purposes. They can make subtle and even radical changes to a model without making new molds. This allows for endless tinkering both good and bad.

We are sort of in a golden age of materials engineering with all the high tech fabrics plastics and wood products right now. In another couple of decades 3D printing will be far beyond the extruded toothpaste methods of today and allow extremely precise additive layers and volumes of specific materials in a timely fashion. It will be amazing.

So for example we could actually have a skilled engineer completely replicate the look specs and feel of a classic frame (assuming access to an original) in days instead of months and without making expensive molds. We could truly have custom frames.

 

[dnguyen]

I would buy a pair if that happened.

It would be nice to develop the thin beam of grommet less Max 200G with stronger material for recommended tension between 50lbs and 60lbs.

 

[WestboroChe]

So I quickly printed up some “grommets” to see what would happen.

The biggest issue I see is that plastic used in most 3D printers is fairly brittle compared to the stuff used in injection molded grommets. Granted I only use PLA which is probably not ideal but I think even ABS would be too brittle if done through a typical desktop printer.

Now I am sure some shop has a composite 3D printer that can solve all this but the question is why? As already said 3D printing is more suitable to one off items. Since grommets can be replaced via the fittex or similar system there is no need to produce replacement sets for individual racquets. They can just be replaced string by string.

 

[RDM]

I've had some spare time on my hands recently so I got to work doing some 3D modelling.
It doesn't have any internal structure or string holes yet, but the basics are done.

 

[WestboroChe]

I've had some spare time on my hands recently so I got to work doing some 3D modelling.
It doesn't have any internal structure or string holes yet, but the basics are done.

Would this be printed as a monocoque or in segments? Most printers couldn’t print a whole racquet.

I'm assuming you would use something like this as a filament.

NylonX Carbon Fiber PA12 Filament - 1.75mm (0.5kg)

NylonX is an engineering grade nylon filament which is blended with chopped carbon fibers (approximately 20% by weight), creating a high-strength filament capable of printing tough, shatter-resistant, functional parts. Engineering grade PA12 nylon filament Prints tough, shatter-resistant...

www.matterhackers.com

 

[bigserving]

One day, it may become standard equipment for tennis players. A 3D printer to make our own frames, and a stringing machine to string them.

 

[RDM]

Would this be printed as a monocoque or in segments? Most printers couldn’t print a whole racquet.

I'm assuming you would use something like this as a filament.

NylonX Carbon Fiber PA12 Filament - 1.75mm (0.5kg)

NylonX is an engineering grade nylon filament which is blended with chopped carbon fibers (approximately 20% by weight), creating a high-strength filament capable of printing tough, shatter-resistant, functional parts. Engineering grade PA12 nylon filament Prints tough, shatter-resistant...

www.matterhackers.com

It would take an industrial type printer to make print something like this in one hit. Nylon doesn’t glue well either, so doing it in segments and piecing them together wouldn’t really be an option. The filament you’ve mentioned sounds very much like what the original Dunlop Max 200G was made from.
The technology isn’t there yet, but one day........

 

[WestboroChe]

It would take an industrial type printer to make print something like this in one hit. Nylon doesn’t glue well either, so doing it in segments and piecing them together wouldn’t really be an option. The filament you’ve mentioned sounds very much like what the original Dunlop Max 200G was made from.
The technology isn’t there yet, but one day........

The tech is there. 3D printers capable of doing that in one go exist. However it would require a lot of expirementation to get the right combination of mass balance and flex. You would probably also need to play around with the filament and find just the right blend of nylon and graphite and all that stuff.

I dunno still seems like it might be easier to just make a mold and do the IMG like the original one. But it’s an interesting idea and one that should be pursued if for no other reason than we would learn a lot about this proces.

 

[teachingprotx]

Print PS 85 STV grommets and make millions.

I’ve often wondered If a few folks out There using the OG 85 p staff ever need extra grommets. For some reason all the p staff 85’s I’ve used prolly around 12 to 15 in all total over the course of my old ass life , I’ve never had any grommets wear out . Weird? Or maybe dumb luck ? I reMemeber always thinking man... these grommets are bullet proof .

 

[WestboroChe]

I’ve often wondered If a few folks out There using the OG 85 p staff ever need extra grommets. For some reason all the p staff 85’s I’ve used prolly around 12 to 15 in all total over the course of my old ass life , I’ve never had any grommets wear out . Weird? Or maybe dumb luck ? I reMemeber always thinking man... these grommets are bullet proof .

People on this site seem to think that grommet making is an untapped gold mine. But generally the demand for replacement grommets is pretty low. The only time I ever have needed replacement grommets was for a 35 year old PK Black Ace. Replacing the grommets with individual tubes works just as well as trying find the correct strip. Some people use surgical tubing. Others use fittex grommets.

 

[penguin]

I would buy a pair if that happened.

It would be nice to develop the thin beam of grommet less Max 200G with stronger material for recommended tension between 50lbs and 60lbs.

Max 200g has a wide and thick beam

 

[dnguyen]

Max 200g has a wide and thick beam

Yeah, i know.

 

[max_brat]

There is a variant of the Max 200G from Japan, the Max 100G. I don't think it was produced in the exact same way, and it used Nicalon (a Japanese fiber) and Kevlar in its make-up. It's thinner (in between a PS85 and Max 200G), but looks like a Max 200G. That could be a real "easy" shortcut to 3d-printed Max 200G magic without needing the intricacies of production. Just a thought.

 

[penguin]

Yeah, i know.

So why did you say it is thin?

 

[Sanglier]

Something to keep in mind if you really plan to go forward with this project.

The typical carbon fiber in a hand-laid frame has a tensile strength of 600 MPa or more. The nylon used to make the 200G wasn't just any nylon, but "Nylon 6/6", the strongest available. With 30% chopped carbon fibers added, it had a tensile strength of close to 300 MPa. In contrast, the nylon used for 3D printing, even with chopped carbon fiber reinforcement, currently tops out at around 80 MPa. Consequently, I remain unconvinced that it would be possible to make a playable replica of the 200G using this approach, at least not without additional reinforcement.

Evidently, there is a patented method to add continuous carbon fibers to 3D printed objects (cf. Markforged); which may be the only way to print a frame that is both strong enough and light enough for tennis use. However, as near as I can understand, it would only lay these fibers in a single direction, which would limit its usefulness in meeting the reinforcement needs of a conventional frame design without some very creative engineering. In any case, the end result will not play like a 200G, even if it looked like one.

 

[dnguyen]

So why did you say it is thin?

Because it would be nice to make thin beam due to changing technologies.

 

[max_brat]

Because it would be nice to make thin beam due to changing technologies.

That's just a Max 100G. If you want a thin-beamed Max 200G, scan Yahoo Japan Auctions for a Max 100G then.

 

[dnguyen]

That's just a Max 100G. If you want a thin-beamed Max 200G, scan Yahoo Japan Auctions for a Max 100G then.

Not anymore. Just need stronger material to hold maximum tension. It need at least 60lbs or higher otherwise it will wrap. safe tension is 55lbs.

 

[max_brat]

Not anymore. Just need stronger material to hold maximum tension. It need at least 60lbs or higher otherwise it will wrap. safe tension is 55lbs.

Yes, in the scenario where one could actually make a 3D printed thin-beam Max 200G (which once again, would be a Dunlop Max 100G as that has a thin beam), but since no one's come close to it, and you want a thin-beam Dunlop Max racquet, the option is a Max 100G. I have 3 and love them.

 

[dnguyen]

Yes, in the scenario where one could actually make a 3D printed thin-beam Max 200G (which once again, would be a Dunlop Max 100G as that has a thin beam), but since no one's come close to it, and you want a thin-beam Dunlop Max racquet, the option is a Max 100G. I have 3 and love them.

Didnt know about Max 100G that has 18mm thin beam. Unfortunately, I am not buying racquets anymore. That's why I am trying to clear off my remaining racquet collection.

 

[WestboroChe]

Something to keep in mind if you really plan to go forward with this project.

The typical carbon fiber in a hand-laid frame has a tensile strength of 600 MPa or more. The nylon used to make the 200G wasn't just any nylon, but "Nylon 6/6", the strongest available. With 30% chopped carbon fibers added, it had a tensile strength of close to 300 MPa. In contrast, the nylon used for 3D printing, even with chopped carbon fiber reinforcement, currently tops out at around 80 MPa. Consequently, I remain unconvinced that it would be possible to make a playable replica of the 200G using this approach, at least not without additional reinforcement.

Evidently, there is a patented method to add continuous carbon fibers to 3D printed objects (cf. Markforged); which may be the only way to print a frame that is both strong enough and light enough for tennis use. However, as near as I can understand, it would only lay these fibers in a single direction, which would limit its usefulness in meeting the reinforcement needs of a conventional frame design without some very creative engineering. In any case, the end result will not play like a 200G, even if it looked like one.

I suppose you could develop a tool path that would lay the fibers in different directions. But without some sort of a gimbal that could rotate the frame in all three axes you wouldn’t be able to get the wrapping effect you need.

Its not hard to imagine a toolmaker developing such a machine in the near future though. It could have all sorts of applications.