4.0 should not be foot faulting

[J D]

Most players focus on:
1) ball toss arm,
2) watching the ball,
3) the racquet arm as they swing.

The human mind can only focus on one thing at a time well and two things at a time marginally. Unless someone practices serves focusing on just their feet, they probably have no idea where their feet are. How many rec players even practice serves, much less focusing on each aspect of the serve for long periods of time until they get each detail right?

When I was coaching, I found young people have no problem fixing foot faults. Older players that have been playing a while have a horrible time changing anything. I know one senior 4.0C that takes a full step into the court on his toss. He knows he does it but can’t fix it for more than one or two serves. He doesn’t have a big serve so no one calls him on it.

I have never called a foot fault on anyone in a match unless they called it on my partner and they were foot faulting themselves. I’ve never seen anyone serving 100 mph+ that consistently food faulted, although I’m sure there are a few out there.. It would take all the fun out of the game for me if I were stressing over little things like foot faults.

Now, players hooking on line calls, that’s a different matter.

 

[ktx]

Footfaults really bug me, especially because there is no clear way to address them in typical league matches. IMO it's the same as serving from outside the sideline or crossing the center line - it's just part of the rules so you should not do it. But it's also a weird thing to call someone on - if you give them a warning then now everyone is irritated and if they keep doing it, are you going to call it on every single serve? Generally my partners and I notice it when it's egregious, decide it's probably not worth saying something (if you're ahead you seem patronizing, if you're down you seem pathetic) no matter the score and then just try to ignore it. I think once my partner mentioned it to their captain just as an FYI.

 

[ktx]

He knows he does it but can’t fix it for more than one or two serves.

But couldn't he just stand a foot back? It seems like such an easy fix.

 

[ichaseballs]

even usta says you can't call it. when you have an official then you can request they come watch.

 

[Creighton]

even usta says you can't call it. when you have an official then you can request they come watch.

that's not true, they just say you have to make reasonable efforts to give the opponent the opportunity to fix the foot faulting first.

 

[PK6]

Ringers/sandbagging/cheater are way worse!!!’ All 3 need to be eliminated from USTA forever

 

[ichaseballs]

that's not true, they just say you have to make reasonable efforts to give the opponent the opportunity to fix the foot faulting first.

like what? send some youtube videos and then re-convene a week later?

 

[Creighton]

like what? send some youtube videos and then re-convene a week later?

Usually a warning to get them to stop foot faulting momentarily.

 

[SlowTiger]

Which is worse, a foot faulter or a strong net player who hits the ball before it passes the net?

 

[Creighton]

Which is worse, a foot faulter or a strong net player who hits the ball before it passes the net?

The latter definitely bothers me more. Especially when they hit the net as well.

 

[theSHAMOO]

Even 3.5 players should not be.
But the worst is when they have bomb serves. Some guy blasting flat serves, but refuses to learn how to do it without faulting.
As someone who played basketball, the line is not a ticky tacky call. Out of bounds, 3 pointers, free throws, this is something that is heavily watched.
Recreational tennis is a joke when it comes to calling foot faults... OR more correctly not calling it.

did you watch the US open this year? Marin cilic was foot faulting and he is at least 4.5 (in a rural area ofc, 3.5 in atlanta)

 

[chic]

Which is worse, a foot faulter or a strong net player who hits the ball before it passes the net?

Foot faulter is worse to me but neither really bugs me unless egregious. Timing the volley an inch past the net means they were in place for the winner either way. Reaching a foot over means they have angles they shouldn't

 

[Robert F]

that's not true, they just say you have to make reasonable efforts to give the opponent the opportunity to fix the foot faulting first.

Isn't that so strange.
We don't get that opportunity when we hit the ball out. "Hey your serve was out, put more spin on it. But we'll count as in for this point, lets see how the next one goes."

Really that is a rule that needs clarity. Potentially--"First foot fall called on a player will be a let, after that it is considered a fault..."

 

[J D]

But couldn't he just stand a foot back? It seems like such an easy fix.

Yea, actually not. He takes a full stride into the court, 2+ feet. I can’t imagine anyone standing that far behind the baseline before starting their service motion.

 

[optic yellow]

There are a few people who footfault by a major amount as they move into the court and hit the ball. But if you watch rec tennis below 4.5, you will see that almost every server stands just behind the baseline and moves their front foot enough so that they always touch the line when they serve. If the foot faults were called by a machine the machine would call 90-95% of serves a fault. I bet that the guys who are complaining about foot faults here also footfault if they watch themselves on video - if they have not been coached extensively.

Only coached players which you are more likely to see at higher levels can keep their front feet from moving forward when they serve because they weight transfer from front to back to front in such a way that the front foot can’t move forward.

I was watching a few games of the match on the next court after I finished playing today - all four 4.0 players were footfaulting just by a small amount as they all moved their front foot slightly forward and touched the baseline without fail. If they stood 6-8 inches back in their serve stance they wouldn’t footfault, but everyone insists on standing close to the baseline.

See to me it seems very simple: if you can't stand immediately next to the baseline without turning your foot onto it, don't stand there. How is this **** even tolerated? It's so pathetic.

 

[Pass750]

See to me it seems very simple: if you can't stand immediately next to the baseline without turning your foot onto it, don't stand there. How is this **** even tolerated? It's so pathetic.

Any other rule violation or calling of the lines like this would never be tolerated.

 

[optic yellow]

Any other rule violation or calling of the lines like this would never be tolerated.

Exactly. Where are the standards? It's not hard to scoot back 3 or 4 inches or whatever so your toe doesn't break the line.

 

[Curtennis]

Refused to change anything and their captain refused to allow calls from outside the match. Apparently a rules Catch-22. Just had to keep playing. Would love to hear a solution from a rules expert. Only time it ever happened to me.

Why don’t you just take 5 steps into the court? I just don’t understand how they can’t enforce the rule. What if you stood 2 feet from the net?

 

[socallefty]

that's not true, they just say you have to make reasonable efforts to give the opponent the opportunity to fix the foot faulting first.

Correct. Here is the code. If there is no official as is often the case in team league matches, it should be possible by rule to call footfaults after a warning has been given. But, be prepared to get it called back on you even if you slightly touch the line while serving.

Calling foot faults. The receiver or the receiver’s partner may call foot faults only after all reasonable efforts, such as warning the server and attempting to get an official to the court, have failed and the foot fault is so flagrant as to be clearly perceptible from the receiver’s side.

 

[ChaelAZ]

There are a few people who footfault by a major amount as they move into the court and hit the ball. But if you watch rec tennis below 4.5, you will see that almost every server stands just behind the baseline and moves their front foot enough so that they always touch the line when they serve. If the foot faults were called by a machine the machine would call 90-95% of serves a fault. I bet that the guys who are complaining about foot faults here also footfault if they watch themselves on video - if they have not been coached extensively.

Only coached players which you are more likely to see at higher levels can keep their front feet from moving forward when they serve because they weight transfer from front to back to front in such a way that the front foot can’t move forward.

I was watching a few games of the match on the next court after I finished playing today - all four 4.0 players were footfaulting just by a small amount as they all moved their front foot slightly forward and touched the baseline without fail. If they stood 6-8 inches back in their serve stance they wouldn’t footfault, but everyone insists on standing close to the baseline.

Same argument with people who speed...everyone is doing it so it is fine. And 5mph is standard. But then, someone pushes to 7mph, or now 10mph, or 15 mph...when do you think it becomes an issue then? So because many folks foot touches the line, stepping a full foot into the court isn't a problem. Why not just start in the court then?

Sorry, not sorry. While we all may foot fault, mostly because rec players are blissfully unaware of what their body actually is doing compared to what it really is (another good argument for everyone video'in themselves), I again say back the truck up and serve to at least TRY to not foot fault. I remember in a sectional match we mentioned to our opponent they needed to step back and his partner (the guy foot faulting just said okay) blew up and started telling us how the guy had knee and back injuries and we were just looking for a way to win..along with several choice words about us being cheaters.

I have recorded 100's of my matches against various players and while the majority are good, there are a few I only share between me and the player just because of foot faulting, with mentioning it to them. Not with any animoisty, but just as a point of contention.

It is funny people will argue millimeters on line calls, but stepping full on the line or even in the court...no problem.

EDIT to add: I was called for stepping back across the center mark on serve once. Ya know what I did? Moved forward to make sure my step-back didn't cross that line.

 

[socallefty]

I am not advocating footfaulting, I would be happy if players stood back a bit in their stance and didn’t foot fault which is what I meant by the last line of my previous post.

Right now if someone is called for footfaulting, it is likely that they could look to make retaliatory calls and find their opponents footfaulting also - that was my point. I think that’s why most players don’t say anything because they probably know that they or their partner footfault slightly also.

 

[Chalkdust]

I am not advocating footfaulting, I would be happy if players stood back a bit in their stance and didn’t foot fault which is what I meant by the last line of my previous post.

Right now if someone is called for footfaulting, it is likely that they could look to make retaliatory calls and find their opponents footfaulting also - that was my point. I think that’s why most players don’t say anything because they probably know that they or their partner footfault slightly also.

Exactly this: I think we can all agree that FF is against the rules and players should not do it. However, the problem is in attempting to enforce when there is no umpire / linesperson:

First off, most if not all calls are made by the person/team on that side of the net. Line calls, double bounce, hit by ball on the fly, etc. But, pretty impossible to observe and call FF on oneself.

So then this means it needs to be called by the player(s) on the other side of the net, which opens up a potential can of worms for gamesmanship. And even when all are trying to be completely honest, it is actually really hard for the receiving player(s) to accurately call FF's, unless it is extremely flagrant - which the code already accounts for.

However, flagrant is subjective, and calling a FF is going to completely sour the mood of any match. So this is where one needs to apply some discretion and realize that since in 95% of cases the server is gaining no advantage, there is no need to ruin everyone's day by calling a FF even if it is flagrant.

 

[socallefty]

it is actually really hard for the receiving player(s) to accurately call FF's, unless it is extremely flagrant

In singles it is hard to spot small foot faults. But in doubles if the net partner of the receiver is looking for foot faults, they can see even small foot faults easily. Also, the definition of flagrant is just that it is visible to the opponents and so, the receiving net partner can call any footfault he sees clearly which could mean a server just stepping on the line and not necessarily stepping a foot inside the court. So, when a returning team is in a retaliation mindset after their team has been called for a foot fault, there will be a lot of opportunity to retaliate truthfully.

To prevent moving the front foot forward during the serve even slightly, there is a textbook method of weight transfer that coaches can teach which is why advanced players don’t foot fault on every point. It makes sense to invest in a lesson to learn this if someone is serious about not moving their front foot forward to step on the line. The easier way of course is to stand back half a foot from the baseline in your serving stance. Even some pros who move their front foot stand back to prevent FFs and it is not uncommon to see that in rec tournaments where there are roving officials.

 

[Pass750]

It is funny people will argue millimeters on line calls, but stepping full on the line or even in the court...no problem.

Great point, I was thinking same exact thing!

 

[Chalkdust]

But in doubles if the net partner of the receiver is looking for foot faults, they can see even small foot faults easily.

Sorry, don't agree. Don't think receiver's partner can accurately judge whether for example the ball was contacted while server was still a fraction of an inch in the air (but across the plane of the baseline) versus contact took place right after server landed within the court.
Can't really clearly judge both contact and foot elevation simultaneously from across the court.

 

[chic]

Can't really clearly judge both contact and foot elevation simultaneously from across the court.

Most cases in league are clearly foot down and over the line significantly before contact. Especially with a jumping serve where they are launching from on/over the line before the swing is fully initiated

 

[FRV4]

the weird thing is, it's really easy to not foot fault. I just don't understand how people will be foot faulting. I never would call ppl out on it though, it's just tennis.

 

[chic]

the weird thing is, it's really easy to not foot fault. I just don't understand how people will be foot faulting. I never would call ppl out on it though, it's just tennis.

It's already been said, but the most egregious groups tend to be:
1 aging men who used to have a jump serve and no longer have the springs. They naturally and unintentionally change there serve over time to make contact after landing and it never gets caught/addressed.
2 self taught servers with a mistimed jump or forward foot step.

In either case the serve just isn't enough of a weapon to call them on it, so the habit festers often without them knowing.

 

[chic]

It's already been said, but the most egregious groups tend to be:
1 aging men who used to have a jump serve and no longer have the springs. They naturally and unintentionally change there serve over time to make contact after landing and it never gets caught/addressed.
2 self taught servers with a mistimed jump or forward foot step.

In either case the serve just isn't enough of a weapon to call them on it, so the habit festers often without them knowing.

Then with the ambiguity of how to legally call it in a match and the fact it usually doesn't matter everyone gets used to letting it slide for most people.

Feeds itself as an issue.

 

[FRV4]

Same argument with people who speed...everyone is doing it so it is fine. And 5mph is standard. But then, someone pushes to 7mph, or now 10mph, or 15 mph

If you took like two steps within the court I'd be annoyed. Same with those motorcycles who go like 100 mph swerving on the highway. Basically whenever you think to yourself "wtf?" it's an issue. This changes when there is an ump or cop present.