4.5/5.0 level first serve spin vs flat

129.4.... Mph. That's 130. I usually have my house keeper use a new sponge everytime she cleans my toilet. So I'll have a nice new scrubber sponge ready for you.
 
LeeD said:
Arche3, you're not jealous, are you? That would explain your obsession and exxagerations you constantly make.
I never claimed 130 serves, nor beating a WTA pro in a real match. You do know that would be impossible, for a rec player to play a WTA woman, don't you? When I explained, you dissed it like you couldn't care less.
Surfing, my prowess. Look it up, I'm listed in the top 30 in California 4A in two different years, 5 years apart. Broke a tib/fib in between. Did I ever claim contest results, beside losing to this guy or that guy?
Pipe. I've logged over 75 days there, mostly winter of '77, when my old surfing bud got out of 8 years as a SEAL, we were living on KeiIki Road, nearest to LogCabins, my boards self made (I shaped for WiseSurfboards) 7'6" x 19, 8'6" x 20, and 9'6" x 21.5 semi guns for winter surf. I paddled out with Rocky at Wiamea on the morning of JamesJones famous tube ride, we were watching from across the cove eating KuaAina burgers, after our morning sesh.
Sorry, can't help it, it's true.
Click to expand...

tumblr_lpax8yxyfy1qip14mo1_500.gif
 
LeeD said:
I cannot hit 115 every day. Most days of over 70 degrees, for sure. BUT, I play in Berkeley, average temps in summer about 57, lately closer to 65, oftentimes (not these past 2 months) well under 50 degrees..
Click to expand...

57 in summer in Berkeley? Maybe at midnight. Daytime temps are usually in the 70's.

Eh, I assume you mean winter?
 
jasonmcmann said:
To reconcile... I don't think Lee is lying. I have seen him on other boards.. His posts are sincere.
Click to expand...

I think he spins very interesting tales based on some facts. The stories then get extrapolated from there.

Initially we thought that he had personally witnessed an 11 year old girl routinely facing 125 mph heaters. I assumed, using common reasoning, that there was likely someone around with a radar gun, witnesses, etc.

The actual facts are her very involved tennis dad told him she gets served at very hard by her 5.5 coach. I guess the dad mentioned 125 mph. As most of us know, tennis dads are not the most reliable source of information concerning their daughter's exploits.

In 1978 he claims 129 mph. Ok. But who knows how the radar gun was set up, how accurate it was back then, etc. I have seen some nutty readings from radar guns through the years. I doubt he could hit 129 mph serves using 1978 equipment back then, and I highly doubt he could put 1 out of 4 serves in at 115 mph today.

More extrapolation....because this or that player stands way behind the baseline, must mean his serve is this or that mph. Again, to those of us in the know, total nonsense. Just Monday I had a very talented 10 year old girl standing next to a 5.5 38 year old tennis pro....they were splitting the court and hitting with a D-1 player.

The grown man stood at least 5 feet behind the baseline, the 10 year old stood 1 foot behind. Why? Because thats the 5.5's game he developed while the girl learned early on to take balls on the rise because she got killed by older kids looping her. So she developed amazing timing and was able to rally well with a college guy hitting pretty darn hard. It was funny to see, a grown man standing way back, a little girl standing almost on the baseline.

So where a returner, even a 5.5 stands on his serve is of no correlation to how fast or slow it is.

Like most story tellers, Lee's are based on some facts.....if a radar gun one time happened to read 125 mph...bam, I have a 125 mph serve. never mind that I hold radar guns several times a week and several out of every 15 readings are absolute garbage that must be discarded. I have seen guys hitting the same serve over and over....pretty much every one says 105-106. Then the gun gives you a reading of 53...then later a reading of 137. Who knows why but you know its way off on those ones. But I suppose Lee would go with the 137!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Does it really matter who makes what speed?
I found most aces and unplayable serves at the last OZ Open where from placement at around 90-100mph for both men and women. At those speeds most amateurs will also be aced or twarted from making winning or damaging strikes on return. Position position is the key or location location.

For another effective serve just look at an injured Nadal against Wawrinka, Stan was definitely not in the right mindset with all that happened after Nadal was injured but even Rod Laver would have giggled at those slow winding slice serves that Stan even at below his best wasnt able to capitalize.
 
Does it really matter who makes what speed?
I found most aces and unplayable serves at the last OZ Open where from placement at around 90-100mph for both men and women. At those speeds most amateurs will also be aced or twarted from making winning or damaging strikes on return. Position position is the key or location location.

For another effective serve just look at an injured Nadal against Wawrinka, Stan was definitely not in the right mindset with all that happened after Nadal was injured but even Rod Laver would have giggled at those slow winding slice serves that Stan even at below his best wasnt able to capitalize.
 
More ignorance shown by you guys?
Yonex OPS Greens were as stiff as some of the stiffest racket's today, the it's sweetspot was higher than any racket of today. It should serve faster than any modern racket, as it served about 3-4 mph faster than wooden rackets of it's time.
If you didn't know this, your whole post is invalid.
 
BorisBeckerFan said:
I'm a lowering 4.5 player use to be about 5.5 but I'm getting fatter, older, and slower. I'm also very short at 5'8 for a tennis player so I can't bomb the first serve too often with out having a horrid first serve percentage. I absolutely have to mix it up. I'm not out there with a stat sheet keeping track but in the back of my mind I have a 50% Kick 30% Slice and 20% Flat that I try to go for. Most definitely vary location. I think it's enough variety so that the opposing player isn't just grooving on one type of serve. If I were taller or could hit the flat serve more consistently then I would certainly go for more flat ones and maybe go Flat 40% of the times on first and maybe 30/30 Kick and Slice serves. I think how you mix up your first serve is really dictated by how consistently you can nail well located flat serves.
Click to expand...

I read this guys post and I was like WTF are you talking about?!?!? Then I realized what the thread title actually was. This thread got so off topic, that on topic became off topic...epic.
 
LeeD said:
More ignorance shown by you guys?
Yonex OPS Greens were as stiff as some of the stiffest racket's today, the it's sweetspot was higher than any racket of today. It should serve faster than any modern racket, as it served about 3-4 mph faster than wooden rackets of it's time.
If you didn't know this, your whole post is invalid.
Click to expand...

Yes. A racket made your serve 130. And the gut strings made from the entrails of Thor.
 
Being a Brit I have never player American Football, so I just went out and grabbed a rugby ball (roughly the same shape, but a bit larger). I went into the street to test these claims... Took 3 steps forward, a little sidestep, forward again and launched. I have actually thrown the ball into next week so I cannot measure the distance as it won't land until next Tuesday.

This I feel is conclusive proof that LeeD isn't full of **** and is actually the living god king. In honour of this I have written to the queen requesting that our national anthem be rewritten to "God save our LeeD"
 
yes Ash...LeeD is harmless though...he never lets the facts get in the way of a good story.

But Hoadie is a legend (RIP), that I always looked up to. Tony Roche is still alive and will tell you about those god awful Yonex OPS Greens that wrecked his arm. I would ask those guys about serving speeds with Dunlop Maxply and Slazenger Challenges.

see what I did there...a semblance of truth and away we go.:twisted:
 
You guys gotta think about this....
In 10th grade, 5' tall, and a true 92 lbs., starting TE and OLB for the JV team, the coach was a safety for the SanFrancisco 49'ers about 10 years previous.
5' tall, 92 lbs. playing the LINE on rushing plays.
Now true, our JV team sucked, but I started Varsity on a SanFrancisco AAA finals team, record 8-1 (we did lose to Novato and Tam High in preseason practice games).
Do you think I was fast?
 
LeeD said:
You guys gotta think about this....
In 10th grade, 5' tall, and a true 92 lbs., starting TE and OLB for the JV team, the coach was a safety for the SanFrancisco 49'ers about 10 years previous.
5' tall, 92 lbs. playing the LINE on rushing plays.
Now true, our JV team sucked, but I started Varsity on a SanFrancisco AAA finals team, record 8-1 (we did lose to Novato and Tam High in preseason practice games).
Do you think I was fast?
Click to expand...

Your 64 years old. Why the hell are you talking about your high school football games? Omg leeD. Just stop. You can be a contributing member of ttw. Instead you use ttw to stroke your own ego. Get a clue. Nobody believes you and more importantly nobody is impressed.
 
For my 7th/8th grade football team I will at times put two small fast guys on the d line. Not world record fast like leeD because well leeD is lying. But we run a 6-2 defense a lot to shut down the box (middle) so if we put 2 small fast kids on d tackle they can run stunts with the d ends and get a lot of penetration. In essence you get a couple line backers on the d line. If the o line is really good and the other teams offense is great at countering the 6-2 then we need the standard big guys on d line.
But the reason we put the smaller guys on d line is not because they are world record fast as leeD claims he is, but simply because they are smaller and if you stunt they get lost and the o line doesn't know which way they went. Next thing you know they are on top of the QB disrupting the play.
 
arche3 said:
For my 7th/8th grade football team I will at times put two small fast guys on the d line. Not world record fast like leeD because well leeD is lying. But we run a 6-2 defense a lot to shut down the box (middle) so if we put 2 small fast kids on d tackle they can run stunts with the d ends and get a lot of penetration. In essence you get a couple line backers on the d line. If the o line is really good and the other teams offense is great at countering the 6-2 then we need the standard big guys on d line.
But the reason we put the smaller guys on d line is not because they are world record fast as leeD claims he is, but simply because they are smaller and if you stunt they get lost and the o line doesn't know which way they went. Next thing you know they are on top of the QB disrupting the play.
Click to expand...

When I played midget league football as a 10 year old, I was right guard on offense and right linebacker on defense.
My low center of gravity made it virtually impossible for any defense lineman to get by me on the pass rush.
Run blocking was more difficult.
On D, we played a 5-3-2-1.
This allowed me to run virtually untouched to the QB/RB since the linemen were occupied.
I basically delayed blitzed every down.
I got 1 sack in my first game where I earned a skull and cross bones sticker on my helmet and also a big bruise on my arm which I was proud of.
My friend Max got a sticker on his helmet for catching a ball but on the flea flicker he accidentally threw it to the other team.
I thought he did not deserve a sticker.
The team in the city to our north had only an 80 yard field.
They would ALWAYS quick count and we could not stop it.
 
mikeler said:
When I played midget league football as a 10 year old, I was right guard on offense and right linebacker on defense.
My low center of gravity made it virtually impossible for any defense lineman to get by me on the pass rush.
Run blocking was more difficult.
On D, we played a 5-3-2-1.
This allowed me to run virtually untouched to the QB/RB since the linemen were occupied.
I basically delayed blitzed every down.
I got 1 sack in my first game where I earned a skull and cross bones sticker on my helmet and also a big bruise on my arm which I was proud of.
My friend Max got a sticker on his helmet for catching a ball but on the flea flicker he accidentally threw it to the other team.
I thought he did not deserve a sticker.
The team in the city to our north had only an 80 yard field.
They would ALWAYS quick count and we could not stop it.
Click to expand...

Kids football is awesome. But the dangers of concussions always weighs on my mind.
My son plays center and d end. 12 years old now next season will be 13 and 8th grade. Will be my last year of coaching football. He is 5"8 and 160lbs now. And fast. Wrecking tight ends lol. The other d end is same size as my kid. Rest of d line is almost as big. Just not fast. Can't wait till football season. Will probably be my sons last season of football. I think he will choose tennis as his sport when he gets to high school. He hurt his knee last season and it was a sort of wakeup call for him I think. Luckily ive been training him in tennis since age 7.
 
Gee, Arch3, aren't we all talking about our past?
Notice, no skill position posters here. If you play pass rusher and OL, you do not throw, you don't catch, and you don't need quick cuts and leaping ability.
So, you need only size, and some quickness.
I was never fast. Actually quite slow. But first step, moving laterally as well as forwards and back was my strengths. Well, if you're light, you gotta move, right?
Excellent idea to put a OLB in 2 point stance, just outside the tackle, but inside the TE, so he can step into the backfield before either get's a solid shot at him. If the wideout cheats closer to the middle, I can take a shot at him on pass plays, if I can't get penetration because a hb or full is standing in my way. Gotta play smart, and move where you're disruptive. And take out the blockers by diving low on sweeps.
 
LeeD said:
I cannot hit 115 every day. Most days of over 70 degrees, for sure. BUT, I play in Berkeley, average temps in summer about 57, lately closer to 65, oftentimes (not these past 2 months) well under 50 degrees.
Click to expand...

If this is not a GoAT poast, what is?
 
Is that a poast, or a statement of fact.
If you say you once played football in junior high, is that a poast? Or is that a statement of fact from your history.
 
It's pretty much reality, as I''ve laid out the street I lived in, and shagged plenty of footballs in practice.
I'm 64 now, so considering injury, no practice throwing, and aging, can throw around 50 yards pretty solidly.
I mentioned the tennis ball throw. From baseline like a serve, over the backfence and landing beyond the net of the adjoining court. Try it.
 
LeeD said:
It's pretty much reality, as I''ve laid out the street I lived in, and shagged plenty of footballs in practice.
I'm 64 now, so considering injury, no practice throwing, and aging, can throw around 50 yards pretty solidly.
I mentioned the tennis ball throw. From baseline like a serve, over the backfence and landing beyond the net of the adjoining court. Try it.
Click to expand...

I know Lee has mentioned many names as witnesses. Can anybody attest this?
 
Dude, 1964 was a long time back. I know NadineRadovich is still living in her old house, but she never saw me throw a football, as she lived 10 blocks away.
Shroud has tried to return my serves, both first and second. He's a 4.0.
RobFl is a nationally ranked 4.5, just get's them back barely.
Without a decent first serve, I would lose almost breadsticks to the 2 little girl's who play at SanPablo courts, one now 12, the other 15. The 12 is NorCal No.4 in the 12's, and older NorCal #27 in 16's. That equates to around 4.5 men's hitting, groundies.
I'm a 4.0 by admission, since I first came onto this forum.
Believe me, I can't win from the baseline against them.
 
Please, you guys, try the tennis ball throw, from your baseline, over the fence behind your opponent, and see if it lands farther than the net of the other court. It takes very little time, and I don't bother to warm up or throw before the first try.
 
Can you be so sure?
How can a 5' tall, sub 100 lbs person play for a ex NFL player in 10th grade, starting both ways?
How can this same sized guy play good minutes on his varsity baskeball team all 3 years he was there?
While I did have a hottie older sister, that wasn't the reason.
LincolnHigh in SF has a student body of around 3,000 students, so don't say it's a small school hard up for players.
And back then, it was high status to play football or basketball, unlike nowadaze.
Both our JV and later our Varsity football teams had 55 players. I started both ways in JV and senior year Varsity. I wasn't the waterboy.
 
LeeD said:
Can you be so sure?
How can a 5' tall, sub 100 lbs person play for a ex NFL player in 10th grade, starting both ways?
How can this same sized guy play good minutes on his varsity baskeball team all 3 years he was there?
While I did have a hottie older sister, that wasn't the reason.
LincolnHigh in SF has a student body of around 3,000 students, so don't say it's a small school hard up for players.
And back then, it was high status to play football or basketball, unlike nowadaze.
Both our JV and later our Varsity football teams had 55 players. I started both ways in JV and senior year Varsity. I wasn't the waterboy.
Click to expand...

I believe you played football and basketball in high school. I don't believe you threw a football 75 yards.
 
^^^ maybe! but in 2 different posts today you have said that you ran the 100 in 10.8 and in another that you "weren't fast" so who knows what to believe!

And the only reason I'm bothering to point this out is that you keep clogging up threads with off topic nonsense about your alleged past sporting exploits - from now on why not take all that stuff to odds n ends where it belongs
 
Last edited:
Did I not admit a senior moment to Arche3?
I wasn't one of the 9 players invited to the second day of baseball practice during 8th grade, so went to the track coach who immediately put me on the team, the position determined by my actual times.
Hard to post great times on a dirt track with tennis shoes, so he made me a long jumper.
I suppose you never had a senior moment.
 
I choose to believe Lee's stories are built around elements of truth. I guess because I can substitute his stories for ones I hear from tennis dads all the time. I bet if he had kids he would spin tales of their exploits just like many tennis dads do.

And most of the time, tennis dad's stories do have some element of truth. One told me recently his 10 year old beat a top ranked 14 year old. I happened to know the 14 year old's dad so when we met up I got more information. Turns out they played practice matches monthly, the 14 year old won every one fairly easily which another person also verified. Then they played while the 14 year old was working on a few specific secondary shots, the 10 year old was 'winning' 3-2 when it started pouring rain.

So that becomes "my 10 year old whipped up on a top 10 nationally ranked 14 year old.
 
Good stuff, TCF. And I agree!
I mentioned a got a set off MarcieLouie. Well, while it's impossible for a 27 year old man to play a serious set with a WTA pro, it did happen. Not a serious set to her, but it did happen. I've gotten plenty of sets against good players, but not necessarily in real matches.
But did I SAY that one set was a serious match, or did I just say I got one set off her?
Some of you, like Arche3, would theorize I claimed I can beat any WTA player ever, by my ONE SET claim.
Other's, knowing it's impossible for a 27 year old man to play a girl in a serious match, would discount that set as something that did happen, but don't take too much beyond that one fluke.
You see, some of you guys read between the lines and make up your own wishes, goals, dreams, or nightmares. I think you should read what I say for what it is, and don't inject your own postulates to the story.
 
Yes, I made the mistake of the time that was performed 45 odd years ago.
Now, please focus on that mistake, forget anything else I posted, and dwell on that ONE mistake.
 
I noticed your posted pic.."he's calling me out"......
Any one of you are welcome to hit with me, most anytime, if you so choose.
I'm not shy about who I am, where I play, or how to get in touch.
At least 3 guys currently on here have hit with me, and all say little except..."LeeD can play his doubs", or "he can hit first serves"......
Who can vouch for YOUR tennis game?
 
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=3853211&highlight=WTA+tournament#post3853211

LeeD posted:

er... I beg to differ.
As a top 3.5 3 decades ago, I could regularly beat quite a few of the women's A ranked (5.5) players, could normally beat some top 30 women's pros, and have beaten some women's pros who WON womens PRO touraments.
Now, granted, I might have been a strong hitter with a lefty serve and the quickest mover on the courts, but still only won one C tournament.
So maybe..... a typical 4.0 male, with no serve, can't volley, is 30 lbs overweight, hits weak, would lose every time to the top 100 WTA women.
Since we assume not every top 100 WTA player is the same, we might also assume that not every 4.0 male is exactly as how I described in the above paragraph.
Some actually serve 125+, can volley, can run faster than most mens pros, and their game might be on the rise, rather than the decline.
 
I have seen the Queens Phillipino Davis Cup (PDC) 4.0 guys crush DIV 1 5.5 females. Most of them would beat a weak Laura Robsen or a old Dante Kram. These guys are 4.0 sandbagging 3.5. So yes. LeeD with a wood raquet or a T2000 could definitely beat WTA 1970 top 20.
 
LeeD said:
Some of you, like Arche3, would theorize I claimed I can beat any WTA player ever, by my ONE SET claim.
You see, some of you guys read between the lines and make up your own wishes, goals, dreams, or nightmares. I think you should read what I say for what it is, and don't inject your own postulates to the story.
Click to expand...

I know what I read leeD.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J
Going from 4.5 to 5.0 level-what best to focus on?
Replies
39
Views
10K
Chas Tennis
C
D
Rec level serve
Replies
24
Views
4K
WildVolley
WildVolley
E
How do 5.0 players their kick serve so much more effective than 4.0/4.5?
2 3
Replies
114
Views
9K
Curious
Curious
R
Any 4.5+ players not using flat hard 1st serve?
Replies
25
Views
3K
kevhen
K
F
What level can you start serve/volley ? 4.5
Replies
28
Views
3K
fedex27
fedex27
Back
Top