4 knots position

liftordie

Professional
#1
Hi,
Today I asked my stringer for new tension 24/23 and he did it with 4 knots...
I played today in tournament (I won) and it was really stiffer than usual, with different (bad) sound... My usual tension is 22 with 2 knots... So I would ask you to tell me if the job of my stringer could be bad...? Here is two pics of the knots. 3 knots downside and 1 knot upside... Is it correct??
Thank you a lot

My string is Double AR Diablo 1.24 who is really soft with great comfort and good sound at 22..... (but lack of control a little bit)



 

Yoneyama

Professional
#2
It is correct. 4 Knots just meant it was strung two-piece as opposed to one-piece. The stringer did this because you asked for a different tension on the mains vs. the crosses.

So he strung the mains first at 24, and tied them off at the bottom (2 knots). Then he would have strung the crosses second at 23 (another 2 knots).

The mains ended at the bottom hence why there is three knots at the bottom (one main each side, and one cross knot)
 

liftordie

Professional
#3
It is correct. 4 Knots just meant it was strung two-piece as opposed to one-piece. The stringer did this because you asked for a different tension on the mains vs. the crosses.

So he strung the mains first at 24, and tied them off at the bottom (2 knots). Then he would have strung the crosses second at 23 (another 2 knots).

The mains ended at the bottom hence why there is three knots at the bottom (one main each side, and one cross knot)
So it is really good job? What you think?
And why it is so much stiffer than 22 with 2 knots... And bad sounding.....?? :confused:

Thank you very much
 
#4
Looks good to me.
Mains give most string hitting characteristics and you did have mains strung higher tension,
and the cross strings are also higher tension although less increase than mains,
but still higher than your previous 22.
if it is too stiff for you go back to 22 for both mains and crosses.
The sound may just be the tail end of knots vibrating against frame as the bottom knots have a long tail end against the frame.
Just take a small blade or small screwdriver end and raise up the tail end of knots away from frame and hear if it is better.
 

Yoneyama

Professional
#5
So it is really good job? What you think?
And why it is so much stiffer than 22 with 2 knots... And bad sounding.....?? :confused:

Thank you very much

Yes it is a good job, there is nothing wrong with it.

Put simply, it just sounds like a tension of 24/23kg does not suit your game and you are not used to it.
 
#6
when stringing 2 piece a lot of stringers use a knot tension on the outer or outer two mains. That knot tension could be 4-10 lbs, 10%, or just about anything. Those stringers do that because the players sometimes bend the outer mains to see if they are tight enough.

When stringing 1 piece usually (especially with an ATW pattern) that isn’t done because the outer mains aren’t tied off. Seems like you prefer 1 piece, so why not bump you tension up and ask for 1 piece. Maybe you should ask your stringer if he has any idea why it is so different.

EDIT: Nothing wrong with stringing 1 piece at 24/23 either but you should specify that if that’s what you want.
 
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liftordie

Professional
#7
Sorry but what is one piece and two pieces?... o_O:p
And I have raised up the tail end of the knots and it seems to sound better...!!! Thanks for the trick!! :D
 

Imago

Hall of Fame
#15
when stringing 2 piece a lot of stringers use a knot tension on the outer or outer two mains. That knot tension could be 4-10 lbs, 10% [higher], or just about anything. Those stringers do that because the players sometimes bend the outer mains to see if they are tight enough.
Such players would discard proportional stringing as defective.
 
#19
OK so it can be only possible to have different tension on mains and crosses with two piece and 4 knots, right?
No that is not right. Even though you only use 1 piece of string you can have different tensions on mains and crosses. There is enough friction between the string and frame the tension will not equalize.
 
#20
No that is not right. Even though you only use 1 piece of string you can have different tensions on mains and crosses. There is enough friction between the string and frame the tension will not equalize.
OK so when you want different tension on mains and crosses, it is better to string with two piece and 4 knots, right?
 
#25
Both 1 piece and 2 piece works equally well. It's just preferences from players or stringers. You save a few inches of string when stringing 1 piece...
2 piece is very common today with many players using hybrid stringing. I.e. different strings for mains and crosses.

I don't know what I like..... I want to know what is the best?? o_O
Does my stringer did the best job with 2 piece and 4 knots for different tension on mains and crosses??
Thanks! :D
 
#26
Both 1 piece and 2 piece works equally well. It's just preferences from players or stringers. You save a few inches of string when stringing 1 piece...
2 piece is very common today with many players using hybrid stringing. I.e. different strings for mains and crosses.
OK but when stringing with 2 piece, you can only use 4 knots, is it right??
 
#28
There is nothing wrong with a 2 pc job. Many racquets are designed to only be strung that way. Many players prefer a different main string than cross string, like R.Federer, and only way to accomplish that is with 4 knots.
Most of the stringing I do is 2 pc, with all the hybrid requests. I also string a lot of Nat gut and with 2 pc you are handling the string less , also with many racquets they need to have crosses installed top down, and 2 pc can accomplish this without getting into an AWT pattern.
Bottom line there is nothing wrong with a 2 pc job.
 
#29
OK so my stringer is definitely a GREAT stringer!!! :p:p:p
Now I can focus with serenity on my tournament match for tonight!
Thanks a lot, guys!!! VAMOOOOOOSSSSS!!!!!!! :D:D:D
 
#30
Two piece so 4 knots? :D
Initially you said you liked the racket 1 piece at 22 Kg. Then you had it strung 2 piece at 24/23 Kg and didn’t like it. I doubt 1 piece or 2 piece will make a difference but you should try changing only 1 thing Tension or string pattern. Next time have it strung 1 piece at 24/23 or 2 piece at 22 and see how you like it.
 
#32
The important part of what Irvin said is "you should try changing only 1 thing" ;)
That's the interest of trying your usual tension with a 4 knots pattern, that way you can compare 1 piece with 2 piece, and you know any difference only comes from the pattern, not from the tension.
In the same spirit, next time you want to try a new tension, you should do it with your usual pattern, so the difference only comes from the tension.
The more parameters you change at the same time, the harder it gets to know what effect each change has.
 
#33
What could be the interest of two piece at the same tension??..... o_O
Babolat recommends all their rackets be strung 2 piece, but allows 1 piece. I prefer a softer string be than most players like and whenever you tie off a string you are going to loose some tension on the outer strings. I’ve even developed an excel spreadsheet for proportional stringing.

When you string a racket 2 piece the outer 2 mains on each side will be lower. When you string 1 piece that happens too but to a lesser degree. A one piece string job has better tension because there are 2 less knots. But all that being said if like rackets with the same tension, and same string I doubt 99% of players (including me) could tell the difference without looking.
 
#34
The important part of what Irvin said is "you should try changing only 1 thing" ;)
That's the interest of trying your usual tension with a 4 knots pattern, that way you can compare 1 piece with 2 piece, and you know any difference only comes from the pattern, not from the tension.
In the same spirit, next time you want to try a new tension, you should do it with your usual pattern, so the difference only comes from the tension.
The more parameters you change at the same time, the harder it gets to know what effect each change has.
Yes but I never asked my stringer to use 4 knots and so two piece... I only asked new tension 24/23...
What is the principal differencies in the feeling with 2 piece instead 1 piece?? In general.... Thanks.
 
#35
What could be the interest of two piece at the same tension??..... o_O
Also IMO, because of the hard weaves with an ATW pattern, the long length of string on one side using a 1 piece pattern, and the stress on the frame stringing bottom up 1 piece is just an inferior method. All of those issues are avoided with 2 piece stringing. The advantage of 1 piece stringing is for the stringer not the player or racket, unless of course if you happen to like 1 piece.
 
#37
Softer string bed and less wear on the strings while stringing.
Thanks, Irvin. I understand better now! I will ALWAYS ask for two piece now!!! :D
But two piece is using more or less than 12 meters for one stringing job?
And you confirm that 4 knots is always and only used for two piece, right??
 
#38
If you string 1 piece, you get 2 knots (one at each end) and same if you string 2 piece, you end up with 4 knots. "2 piece" and "4 knots" mean the same thing, unless your stringer has gone crazy from huffing too much paint and somehow adds unnecessary knots ^^'
 
#41
Thanks, Irvin. I understand better now! I will ALWAYS ask for two piece now!!! :D
But two piece is using more or less than 12 meters for one stringing job?
And you confirm that 4 knots is always and only used for two piece, right??
2 piece does not use any more string than 1 piece (depending on who is stringing the racket. The size of the racket does not change, the number of mains does not change, and the number of crosses does not change.

If I was stringing a mid plus 16 x 19 racket with poly I’d cut 11 meters off a reel. I’d use 2.8 meters for the short side and what I cut off the long side I’d use to string the crosses using a starting knot at the top. That method may use 10 cm more string than a 1 piece method.
 
#42
2 piece does not use any more string than 1 piece (depending on who is stringing the racket. The size of the racket does not change, the number of mains does not change, and the number of crosses does not change.

If I was stringing a mid plus 16 x 19 racket with poly I’d cut 11 meters off a reel. I’d use 2.8 meters for the short side and what I cut off the long side I’d use to string the crosses using a starting knot at the top. That method may use 10 cm more string than a 1 piece method.
My reel say thank you! :D
 
#43
One-piece uses less string than two-piece plain and simple (you don't have to use string to reach the tensioner on the first cross if nothing else). If you measure your string correctly from a reel, you can get an extra string job out of a reel. It's not a big deal, but when using a reel, one-piece is less string which means potentially more string jobs for less money.

One of the guys I string for uses the Steam 105S with a 16X15 pattern. By using a reel and one-piece, I can get a few more stringings than the equivalent with packs. The 105S is one of the frames which uses a lot less string than a regular frame.

Unless you're stringing natural gut, two-piece really doesn't benefit the string that much either; at least not enough to justify using one over the other.

I prefer, when given the option, using a one-piece. All that said, I personally play with a hybrid so I string my frames two-piece. All in all, the general consensus is there is no difference in playability if all things are equal between a one-piece and a two-piece. Since everyone agrees, the aforementioned alleged ill effects on string doing a one-piece are specious.
 
#44
OP, lots of valid points above
if you ever wanna experiment with 2knots vs 4knots, tell your stringer,, he will work with you on this,,,

another point,, dont try to cut the length of the string from thecreel yourself, leave that upto the stringer,, theyll be able to cut more accurately what THEY need.. ppl alot more times than I care too, give me way more than I need..
 
#46
As for me 1 piece is 1) less string, 2) less tension loss on outer mains, 3) less knots meaning less sharp sting ends potentially ruining my tennis clothes :) But, only for frames with mains finishing top of the frame. 2 piece would be for hybrids and frames with mains finishing bottom, as 1 piece ATW pattern seems strange for me, as tension of hard weaved crosses must be lower than that of easy weaved crosses due to different friction. So I personally stick to 1 piece unless there is a reason I can not do 1 piece.
 
#47
1 piece only uses less string unles you have a stringer that does not use the method described in post #41. The outside mains should be at a lower tension than the others mains because they are shorter. Using a 1 piece method places more stress on the center crosses. By the time your stringing the crosses in the sweet spot you have already ran the crosses through the mains several times. Weaving the crosses through several (half of the hard weaves) wears the coating off the string causing greater friction between mains and crosses. The greater the string to string friction the less the spin and the faster your strings will break.
 
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