5-6 in non french open Major finals

bjorn23

Rookie
After this loss Nadal is 5-6 in non French open major finals. This is pretty significant. I think there is a very good chance Rafa ends up 6-9 or 6-10 in non french major finals. If this happens Nadal is the new Lendl outside of the French. You know Djoko will get him a few more times alone. Its not gonna be easy for Rafa to get above even outside of the french.
 

bullslayer

New User
Since Nadal would have won this final without his critical back injury my count is 6-5. Impressive Rafa not only at the FO but all surfaces!
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
I think he is only one slam runner up behind Federer now, am I right?
 

ScottleeSV

Professional
5-6 off clay versus 16-3 off clay. Just shows that whilst rafa is clay king, he'll never beat fed's greatness on grass or hard
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
5-6 off clay versus 16-3 off clay. Just shows that whilst rafa is clay king, he'll never beat fed's greatness on grass or hard
and before anyone else says, yeah rafa has more non clay slams than roger, but roger only has one chance a year to win a clay slam/slam off best surface, rafa has 3.
 

tipsa...don'tlikehim!

Talk Tennis Guru
and before anyone else says, yeah rafa has more non clay slams than roger, but roger only has one chance a year to win a clay slam/slam off best surface, rafa has 3.
Roger is lucky there are 2 HC grand slams a year but only 1 clay. Otherwise...imagine if it was the opposite, 2 clay slams a year and 1 HC ?
 

mistik

Hall of Fame
This is the one and only bad defeat from him. He didnt play major finals with 35 years old Agassi or something.
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
Roger is lucky there are 2 HC grand slams a year but only 1 clay. Otherwise...imagine if it was the opposite, 2 clay slams a year and 1 HC ?
in that scenario Id actually like roger's chances. You act like he has never beaten Nadal on clay. He has, more than once. Only he and djoker have ever done that. So again, with more than one crack, I like his chances to win at least 2 clay slams from Rafa. And if the lone HC slam is the USO, Roger still has 7 WB and 5 uso.

Also, with two clay slams, thats even more running and grinding from rafa..whose to say he'd be healthy for both finals, when he til last year always disintegrated after WB?? 2 clay slams doesnt mean automatic dominance for Rafa.
 

namelessone

Legend
in that scenario Id actually like roger's chances. You act like he has never beaten Nadal on clay. He has, more than once. Only he and djoker have ever done that. So again, with more than one crack, I like his chances to win at least 2 clay slams from Rafa. And if the lone HC slam is the USO, Roger still has 7 WB and 5 uso.

Also, with two clay slams, thats even more running and grinding from rafa..whose to say he'd be healthy for both finals, when he til last year always disintegrated after WB?? 2 clay slams doesnt mean automatic dominance for Rafa.
He also skips some tournies if there are 2 clay slams. You saw how Nadal treats RG, do you think he wouldn't focus as much if there were another clay slam? Dude is in the top 3 of clayGOAT's and when he was at his peak, he would have defended successfully most times against Fed and Djokovic.

The guy's level on clay is outrageous. At 60% he is too much for 90% of the tour, even in 2 out of 3. In 3 out of 5 it's near mission impossible, especially when he was at his physical peak.
 

Desertman

Hall of Fame
It's not fair to compare stats over the last 10 years! I would think going back 2 years is more than good enough. Since the start of the 2012 season it's like this:

Nadal 3 - 2
Djokovic 2 - 4
Murray 2 - 2
Federer 1 - 0
Wawrinka 1 - 0
Ferrer 0 - 1

This still says that the "Big 3" are dominant, occupying 15 of the 18 finalist spots in the last 9 slams.

In that time, Nadal has missed 2 slams and Murray 1, so their availability is down to 7 and 8 slams respectively. Taking this into account:

Nadal winning % = 3/7 = 43%
finalist % = 5/7 = 71%
Djokovic winning % = 2/9 = 22%
finalist % = 6/9 = 67%
Murray winning % = 2/8 = 25%
finalist % = 4/8 = 50%
Federer winning % = 1/9 = 11%
finalist % = 1/9 = 11%
Wawrinka winning % = 1/9 = 11%
finalist % = 1/9 = 11%
Ferrer winning % = 0/9 = 0%
finalist % = 1/9 = 11%

Purely on the last two years, Nadal is leading the way both in being a winner or getting to the final. Murray has the next best winning percentage but again, the "Big 3" dominate.
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
He also skips some tournies if there are 2 clay slams. You saw how Nadal treats RG, do you think he wouldn't focus as much if there were another clay slam? Dude is in the top 3 of clayGOAT's and when he was at his peak, he would have defended successfully most times against Fed and Djokovic.

The guy's level on clay is outrageous. At 60% he is too much for 90% of the tour, even in 2 out of 3. In 3 out of 5 it's near mission impossible, especially when he was at his physical peak.

but thats my point. he plays every clay lead up, wins the RG, then plays wb. makes the final/win, dissapears during summer HC, plays USO, disappears during fall HC< plays WTF. . and he used to make the final at WB, , now he loses early.

my point being, the aftermath of having 2 clay slams would definitely affect his performanceand fitness. , you cant automatically say he would be fit and primed for both. And he for sure wouldnt have as many off clay titles due to sheer fatigue/injury from all that grinding in two clay lead ups and two clay slams.

And as I said. you act like fed and djoker havent beaten him clay. The more you exposure yourself the more bad things can happen. with 2 clay slams I like Fed's chances, in his prime to take one at least. And djoker to maybe catch a tired, non peak rafa slipping. I clay slam is frankly a blessing for rafa. Not as much to defend.
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
Lets say the USO went back to clay and the AO was fast like USO.

Ok. So, you have AO/USO in Jan. small winter/spring HC season. Then clay run up to FO. Then WB, a few small grass tourneys then another clay run up to USO/FO. The man would be a wreck. And sure he could skip the USO/FO run up tourneys, but he would need the points to keep fed at bay, I mean, not like fed sucks on clay, and he would still be winning WB and AO/USO. He would especially need them because he'd be disappearing again by the fall HC season.

I honestly think it'd be worse physically for nadal if there were two clay slams.
 

namelessone

Legend
but thats my point. he plays every clay lead up, wins the RG, then plays wb. makes the final/win, dissapears during summer HC, plays USO, disappears during fall HC< plays WTF. . and he used to make the final at WB, , now he loses early.

my point being, the aftermath of having 2 clay slams would definitely affect his performanceand fitness. , you cant automatically say he would be fit and primed for both. And he for sure wouldnt have as many off clay titles due to sheer fatigue/injury from all that grinding in two clay lead ups and two clay slams.

And as I said. you act like fed and djoker havent beaten him clay. The more you exposure yourself the more bad things can happen. with 2 clay slams I like Fed's chances, in his prime to take one at least. And djoker to maybe catch a tired, non peak rafa slipping. I clay slam is frankly a blessing for rafa. Not as much to defend.
It would be hard but not impossible to defend 2 clay slams.

Have you noticed how many clay MS Nadal has defended in his career? And those have most top players playing, in a format where Nadal is way more vulnerable, in two out of 3. In 3 out of 5 it's almost impossible.

If there were two RG's, Nadal would be raking up the slams in his clay peak.

Nadal does have only RG to defend but that's the pinnacle of his clay defense. He also starts the season by trying to defend MC and Rome plus whatever other european clay tournies he enters(which usually have pretty good fields, see Barcelona). And he usually succeeds in these defenses.

It also depends on how these 2 big clay events are spaced out. If one is spring and the other in autumn, I see little problem for Rafa, especially in his prime on clay. If they are spaced like RG and WB today that could be a problem.
 
M

monfed

Guest
Mediocre record given that 3 slams are nonclay. Certainly not worthy of a GOAT.
 

KillerServe

Banned
I give nadal credit tho..undefeated in FO finals. Thats insane.
Well the thing is, if the response to bad record outside of clay is 'but clay counts too. Then likewise its dishonest to say undefeated in FO finals since 4th round losses count too. That said an Nadal's record at the FO, while not perfect, is nonetheless remarkable.
 

Boom-Boom

Hall of Fame
5-6 gives a more accurate view of Nadal true level on super-slow grass and hard courts. He would have been 1-10 maybe in the 90's.
 

bjorn23

Rookie
At what point does this become a big stain on Nadal's career? I think 6-10 is very realistic a couple years from now.
 

coloskier

Legend
Lets say the USO went back to clay and the AO was fast like USO.

Ok. So, you have AO/USO in Jan. small winter/spring HC season. Then clay run up to FO. Then WB, a few small grass tourneys then another clay run up to USO/FO. The man would be a wreck. And sure he could skip the USO/FO run up tourneys, but he would need the points to keep fed at bay, I mean, not like fed sucks on clay, and he would still be winning WB and AO/USO. He would especially need them because he'd be disappearing again by the fall HC season.

I honestly think it'd be worse physically for nadal if there were two clay slams.
Let's say that AO, USO, and Wimbledon are fast last they used to be. Not like ANY of them are now. Then what happens?
 

winstonplum

Hall of Fame
Doesn't mean much. He still has five slams off of clay, which shows that he is an incredibly diverse and well-rounded tennis player. I expect a very strong showing from Nadal this year at Wimbledon.
 

WalterWhite

Rookie
Doesn't mean much. He still has five slams off of clay, which shows that he is an incredibly diverse and well-rounded tennis player. I expect a very strong showing from Nadal this year at Wimbledon.
I'm a rafa fan too, but don't hold your breath :( Wimbledon has become kryptonite for him
 

Smasher08

Legend
I'm a rafa fan too, but don't hold your breath :( Wimbledon has become kryptonite for him
It'll be very interesting this year. After Rosol and Darcis the whole tour knows that if they hit big against him during the first week he's very vulnerable.

He may very well have his hands full from here on in.
 

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
Clay counts of course so it's 13-6

But even outside clay 5-6 is decent, it's not bad.
Yeah, how is 5-6 in non-French Slams some sort of horrible stat? He's the best clay courter ever and has made 11 non-French finals, winning 5, including wins on both grass and hard.

And, or course, French Opens actually do count, so he's 13-6 in Slam finals. I don't even root for the guy, but can see how great he is.
 

Fiji

Legend
Doesn't mean much. He still has five slams off of clay, which shows that he is an incredibly diverse and well-rounded tennis player. I expect a very strong showing from Nadal this year at Wimbledon.
I expect an early loss for the third year in a row. He can lose to any journeyman at Wimbledon these days.
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
but thats my point. he plays every clay lead up, wins the RG, then plays wb. makes the final/win, dissapears during summer HC, plays USO, disappears during fall HC< plays WTF. . and he used to make the final at WB, , now he loses early.

my point being, the aftermath of having 2 clay slams would definitely affect his performanceand fitness. , you cant automatically say he would be fit and primed for both. And he for sure wouldnt have as many off clay titles due to sheer fatigue/injury from all that grinding in two clay lead ups and two clay slams.

And as I said. you act like fed and djoker havent beaten him clay. The more you exposure yourself the more bad things can happen. with 2 clay slams I like Fed's chances, in his prime to take one at least. And djoker to maybe catch a tired, non peak rafa slipping. I clay slam is frankly a blessing for rafa. Not as much to defend.
with two clay slams, you would have more people being able to challenge the top guys. More people being clay specialists. Just as now, most players play very well on HC.
It changes the entire dynamic of the sport with two clay slams and there's no saying how it would turn out
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
After this loss Nadal is 5-6 in non French open major finals. This is pretty significant. I think there is a very good chance Rafa ends up 6-9 or 6-10 in non french major finals. If this happens Nadal is the new Lendl outside of the French. You know Djoko will get him a few more times alone. Its not gonna be easy for Rafa to get above even outside of the french.
Novak is 6-6 including his best slam for comparison. Rafa being 5-6 without his best is not that bad really. And 13-6 is what matters
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Yeah, how is 5-6 in non-French Slams some sort of horrible stat? He's the best clay courter ever and has made 11 non-French finals, winning 5, including wins on both grass and hard.

And, or course, French Opens actually do count, so he's 13-6 in Slam finals. I don't even root for the guy, but can see how great he is.
with two clay slams, you would have more people being able to challenge the top guys. More people being clay specialists. Just as now, most players play very well on HC.
It changes the entire dynamic of the sport with two clay slams and there's no saying how it would turn out
The lengths people go through to discredit and belittle Rafa's acheivements here are amazing. I would be EMBARRASSED to go around saying "outside of the AO" or "besides Wimbledon" and "off hard court" REALLY? He really does get under trolls skin like no other.
 

T-Noone

Professional
I think Nadal should start worrying about his performance vs. top 10 guys. Djokovic, Ferrer, Del Potro, and Wawrinka now have all chalked up Ws on him recently. It's really only Federer that bows down easily.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
I think Nadal should start worrying about his performance vs. top 10 guys. Djokovic, Ferrer, Del Potro, and Wawrinka now have all chalked up Ws on him recently. It's really only Federer that bows down easily.
Djokovic has been beating Nadal since 2007. Ferrer the same, and in 2 slams. Delpo beat him once in the last 4 years. Same with Wawrinka in 13 matches. Maybe you should just take a cold shower. This is the best start Nadal has had to a year besides 2009.
 

Boom-Boom

Hall of Fame
This 5-6 stat and the fact Nadal cannot defend any title outside clay clearly proves he is an uni-dimensional player. Without the super slowing down of HC/Grass these days, Nadal would probably been nothing more than the Muster of his time.
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
Chanwan:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chanwan View Post
with two clay slams, you would have more people being able to challenge the top guys. More people being clay specialists. Just as now, most players play very well on HC.

The lengths people go through to discredit and belittle Rafa's acheivements here are amazing. I would be EMBARRASSED to go around saying "outside of the AO" or "besides Wimbledon" and "off hard court" REALLY? He really does get under trolls skin like no other.
Now come on - how has that response got anything to do with me?
Nadal's game is clearly built for clay and his perfect at it (as I've stated in the current, why Nadal does so great on clay-thread)

But if you cannot see that substituting HC with clay and vice versa (cause it wouldn't make sense to have 2 clay slams and only three Masters) would change what surface players would be trying to develop most on, then I would like to have what you're smoking.

All I'm saying is that it's unlikely he would be as dominant as he has been on clay had it been the surface of choice for the past 20 years. Cause then you would see many more players with clay as their preferred surface as opposed to HC. Simple as that really.
He would still be very good, with a very high probability still be the best on it, but I doubt he would be winning 80 % of the clay tournaments, he enters.
 
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