5 years since the last time

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
The comparison between Wawrinka and Roddick/Hewitt is valid. If Djokovic dealt with Wawrinka the way Federer did with Roddick/Hewitt, Stan wouldn't be a 3 slam winner.

On the other hand, Djokovic had much greater opposition in other players and dealt much better with it.

2003-10 Federer against Big4: 8-8
2011-19 Djokovic against Big4: 21-8
 
How do you determine the level of play with objectivity? What's the possibility of a 3R and a final having the same level of play?

Yes, what is the "objectivity" that you bring with the assertion that a R3 match cannot have the level of a final?

This will be fun.

:cool:
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
Yes, what is the "objectivity" that you bring with the assertion that a R3 match cannot have the level of a final?

This will be fun.

:cool:
There are many ways to be objective. For example:

Other players beat in the tournament:

DJOKOVIC
Murray
Nadal
Gasquet
Kokkinakis
Muller
Nieminen

WAWRINKA
Tsonga
Federer
Simon
Johnson
Ilhan
Lajovic

FEDERER
Kiefer
Vliegen

KUERTEN
Lopez
Elseneer
Almagro
 
There are many ways to be objective. For example:

Other players beat in the tournament:

DJOKOVIC
Murray
Nadal
Gasquet
Kokkinakis
Muller
Nieminen

WAWRINKA
Tsonga
Federer
Simon
Johnson
Ilhan
Lajovic

FEDERER
Kiefer
Vliegen

KUERTEN
Lopez
Elseneer
Almagro

Could you explain how what players you beat in a tournament determine the level you play on in a certain match?

:cool:
 

lol.gif

:cool:
 

tudwell

G.O.A.T.
9 slam semifinals to 3.
Yeah. Wawrinka had a good 12-13 years with no major injuries. Kuerten had four. Wawrinka was more consistent at the slams but that’s literally the only thing he has over Kuerten. Kuerten wins on win %, titles, big titles, ranking, etc. Even possibly depth of field (though I’m sure you’d disagree on that).

Wawrinka’s a great player. I love watching him play and he’s added a lot to the last 5-6 years of the men’s tour. But he’s not demonstrably better than someone like Kuerten or Safin.
 
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Lew II

G.O.A.T.
Yeah. Wawrinka had a good 12-13 years with no major injuries. Kuerten had four. Wawrinka was more consistent at the slams but that’s literally the only thing he has over Kuerten. Kuerten wins on win %, titles, big titles, ranking, etc. Even possibly depth of field (though I’m sure you’d disagree on that).

Wawrinka’s a great player. I love watching him play and he’s added a lot to the last 5-6 years of the 1zpppp tour. But he’s not demonstrably better than someone like Kuerten or Safin.
Wawrinka in 2013-17 met 16 times the Big4 in Slams.

Winning 3 titles in this era is a miracle.
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
In the next RG it will be 5 years since the last time Djokovic lost a Grand Slam match to any of the Big4.


Since then, 12 consecutive wins for Djokovic:

WI14 F b. Federer 6-7(7) 6-4 7-6(4) 5-7 6-4
UO14 QF b. Murray 7-6(1) 6-7(1) 6-2 6-4
AO15 F b. Murray 7-6(5) 6-7(4) 6-3 6-0
RG15 QF b. Nadal 7-5 6-3 6-1
RG15 SF b. Murray 6-3 6-3 5-7 5-7 6-1
WI15 F b. Federer 7-6(1) 6-7(10) 6-4 6-3
UO15 F b. Federer 6-4 5-7 6-4 6-4
AO16 SF b. Federer 6-1 6-2 3-6 6-3
AO16 F b. Murray 6-1 7-5 7-6(3)
RG16 F b. Murray 3-6 6-1 6-2 6-4
WI18 SF b. Nadal 6-4 3-6 7-6(9) 3-6 10-8
AO19 F b. Nadal 6-3 6-2 6-3
This is the most impressive stat the OP has highlighted.
 

The Guru

Legend
Most consecutive slam wins over ATGs:

Djokovic 13
Federer 2

LOL
Who are you considering all-time greats? Are Murray and Wawa ATGs and Safin/Roddick/Hewitt not? How about Del Po? ATG is a very arbitrary line. Not sure if this changes things I'm just curious.
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
Who are you considering all-time greats? Are Murray and Wawa ATGs and Safin/Roddick/Hewitt not? How about Del Po? ATG is a very arbitrary line. Not sure if this changes things I'm just curious.
Murray is. Wawrinka is not.

Murray is top10 in all stats of the open era except slam titles.
 

maupp

Semi-Pro
So many insecure posters in this thread. Normally what OP said shouldn't get such rise and should just have been seen as an interesting piece of trivia, information or stats yet it has tuned into what this thread currently is.

Why are some acting like they've been personally offended anyways. I mean is what OP said even outrageous? The poster just posted some interesting stats yet you've got posters acting like they've been disrespected.
 

uscwang

Hall of Fame
Let's keep Murray out of this.
Novak current winning streak over Federer and Nadal:
1. WB14 F b. Federer 3-2
2. RG15 QF b. Nadal 3-0
3. WB15 F b. Federer 3-1
4. USO15 F b. Federer 3-1
5. AO16 SF b. Federer 3-1
6. WB18 SF b. Nadal 3-2
7. AO19 F b. Nadal 3-0
8. WB19 F b. Federer 3-2

His winning streak over Federer and Nadal in 2011-2012 season
1. WB11 F d. Nadal 3-1
2. USO11 SF d. Federer 3-2
3. USO11 F d. Nadal 3-1
4. AO12 F d. Nadal 3-2
5. RG12 SF d. Federer 3-0
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
Went from 1-7 to 13-0 o_O

RG 12 final vs Nadal - L
WI 12 semi vs Federer - L
UO 12 final vs Murray - L
AO 13 final vs Murray - W
RG 13 semi vs Nadal - L
WI 13 final vs Murray - L
UO 13 final vs Nadal - L
RG 14 final vs Nadal - L

WI 14 final vs Federer - W
UO 14 quarter vs Murray - W
AO 15 final vs Murray - W
RG 15 quarter vs Nadal - W
RG 15 semi vs Murray - W
WI 15 final vs Federer - W
UO 15 final vs Federer - W
AO 16 semi vs Federer - W
AO 16 final vs Murray - W
RG 16 final vs Murray - W
WI 18 semi vs Nadal - W
AO 19 final vs Nadal - W
WI 19 final vs Federer - W
 

DjokoLand

Hall of Fame
Went from 1-7 to 13-0 o_O

RG 12 final vs Nadal - L
WI 12 semi vs Federer - L
UO 12 final vs Murray - L
AO 13 final vs Murray - W
RG 13 semi vs Nadal - L
WI 13 final vs Murray - L
UO 13 final vs Nadal - L
RG 14 final vs Nadal - L

WI 14 final vs Federer - W
UO 14 quarter vs Murray - W
AO 15 final vs Murray - W
RG 15 quarter vs Nadal - W
RG 15 semi vs Murray - W
WI 15 final vs Federer - W
UO 15 final vs Federer - W
AO 16 semi vs Federer - W
AO 16 final vs Murray - W
RG 16 final vs Murray - W
WI 18 semi vs Nadal - W
AO 19 final vs Nadal - W
WI 19 final vs Federer - W
It was mental strength he was broken after that RG 13 SF, he improved his serve but when he got Boris on board his mental toughness went through the roof.
 

The Guru

Legend
Murray is. Wawrinka is not.

Murray is top10 in all stats of the open era except slam titles.
How about Safin/Hewitt/Roddick? I'm with you on Murray by the way I think he's very underrated and is a top 15 player in the Open Era but Hewitt is definitely top 25 and Roddick/Safin might be too so where's the line.
 

ibbi

G.O.A.T.
There is one year between 2016 and 2018... :-D:-D:-D
Sorry, should have been more pedantic and pointed out that the gap of two years is between RG 2016 and Wimbledon 2018. Thought everyone would be able to connect the dots, I guess I forgot where I was :-D:-D:-D
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
How about Safin/Hewitt/Roddick? I'm with you on Murray by the way I think he's very underrated and is a top 15 player in the Open Era but Hewitt is definitely top 25 and Roddick/Safin might be too so where's the line.
It's subjective.

My list of ATGs is 6+ slam winners plus Murray.
 
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