$500,000 just to light Tennis Courts?

Raul_SJ

Hall of Fame
#1
Parks and Rec says $500,000 just to install lights for 6 courts!... is this a government price?
:eek:

time = 1:20:50

 
Last edited:

Traffic

Hall of Fame
#5
There's probably design fees, admin fees, contingencies, permits involved.
Plus you have to get power. So there may be trenching involved, service cabinet, possibly even setting a transformer?
You have to run conduit from your service to each of the poles.
I'm sure the poles were selected that meet the asthetic requirements fo the area. We're talking Palo Alto, right? A single concrete pole could cost $10k.
Each fixture can cost up to $2500 depending on asthetics.
Poles need concrete foundations
There's property restoration
You need a control unit.
Wire/cabling is not cheap
I'd be surprised if they didn't do a bunch of maintenance on the court at the same time.

The cost of putting up lights for private court for an apartment complex or your backyard is going to be waaaaaay cheaper than what a municipality has to install to hold up to public use.
 
#6
Construction costs are always astronomical especially in a place like Palo Alto. Here in MA we have a plan in place to put lights at the HS athletic field. I believe the cost was about $250k for four light towers.
 
#10
There's probably design fees, admin fees, contingencies, permits involved.
Plus you have to get power. So there may be trenching involved, service cabinet, possibly even setting a transformer?
You have to run conduit from your service to each of the poles.
I'm sure the poles were selected that meet the asthetic requirements fo the area. We're talking Palo Alto, right? A single concrete pole could cost $10k.
Each fixture can cost up to $2500 depending on asthetics.
Poles need concrete foundations
There's property restoration
You need a control unit.
Wire/cabling is not cheap
I'd be surprised if they didn't do a bunch of maintenance on the court at the same time.

The cost of putting up lights for private court for an apartment complex or your backyard is going to be waaaaaay cheaper than what a municipality has to install to hold up to public use.
Totally, the cost of the copper wiring is suprisingly expensive in itself. Why do you think thieves strip wire and pipes out of buildings?
 

Raul_SJ

Hall of Fame
#12
Ya, sure. But with all of the money generated by rec tennis.......

On second thought, forget it.
Apparently Pickleball draws far more people. Dozens of Pickleball players showed up at the Parks & Rec hearing.

They are very excited about their growing sport and are campaigning to convert tennis courts into Pickle courts. No more joint use. Dedicated Pickle courts.

Sad for @ByeByePoly. :(

Sample comments from pickleball players that showed up at Parks & Rec Hearing:

"I noticed several weeks ago when I walked in and two people were playing tennis on that court and 20 Pickleball players were standing around waiting for them to finish."

"I've noticed that the tennis courts are never full anymore and often completely empty. But the good news is that the pickleball courts have come alive again."

"I wanted to let you know how much fun I'm having playing pickleball. I also wanted to let you know that when I was growing up the tennis courts were always full but in the number of decades since then I've noticed that the tennis courts are never full anymore and often completely empty."
 
#13
Apparently Pickleball draws far more people. Dozens of Pickleball players showed up at the Parks & Rec hearing.

They are very excited about their growing sport and are campaigning to convert tennis courts into Pickle courts. No more joint use. Dedicated Pickle courts.

Sad for @ByeByePoly. :(

Sample comments from pickleball players that showed up at Parks & Rec Hearing:

"I noticed several weeks ago when I walked in and two people were playing tennis on that court and 20 Pickleball players were standing around waiting for them to finish."

"I've noticed that the tennis courts are never full anymore and often completely empty. But the good news is that the pickleball courts have come alive again."

"I wanted to let you know how much fun I'm having playing pickleball. I also wanted to let you know that when I was growing up the tennis courts were always full but in the number of decades since then I've noticed that the tennis courts are never full anymore and often completely empty."
 
#14
Apparently Pickleball draws far more people. Dozens of Pickleball players showed up at the Parks & Rec hearing.

They are very excited about their growing sport and are campaigning to convert tennis courts into Pickle courts. No more joint use. Dedicated Pickle courts.

Sad for @ByeByePoly. :(

Sample comments from pickleball players that showed up at Parks & Rec Hearing:

"I noticed several weeks ago when I walked in and two people were playing tennis on that court and 20 Pickleball players were standing around waiting for them to finish."

"I've noticed that the tennis courts are never full anymore and often completely empty. But the good news is that the pickleball courts have come alive again."

"I wanted to let you know how much fun I'm having playing pickleball. I also wanted to let you know that when I was growing up the tennis courts were always full but in the number of decades since then I've noticed that the tennis courts are never full anymore and often completely empty."
Are you trying to hurt me? :mad:
 

Raul_SJ

Hall of Fame
#16
Are you trying to hurt me? :mad:
You were right. There are a bunch of pickle players. Apparently each set takes 15 minutes to play and a whole bunch turn up.
Also difficult to set up pickle on tennis courts, so they want Parks&Rec to convert tennis courts to dedicated pickle only courts.

"We really need permanent courts and we need them sooner rather than later. Many of you probably don't know what it takes to set up our portable net so let me tell you what that's like . Every single time we want to play we lug bags of nets to the courts that weigh 25 pounds. They contain 12 pieces of steel tubing that we have to organize and assemble as well as nets that need to be unrolled installed and tightened.

This is why I'm asking the city for permanent pickleball courts. I honestly think it's only fair that the city provide facilities equal to those that are provided to the tennis community. I think if the tennis players had to set up and take down their cords every single time they played that they'd play a whole lot less tennis.

None of us are getting any younger. We'd love to see this happen sooner rather than later. Thank you."
 
#17
You were right. There are a bunch of pickle players. Apparently each set takes 15 minutes to play and a whole bunch turn up.
Also difficult to set up pickle on tennis courts, so they want Parks&Rec to convert tennis courts to dedicated pickle only courts.

"We really need permanent courts and we need them sooner rather than later. Many of you probably don't know what it takes to set up our portable net so let me tell you what that's like . Every single time we want to play we lug bags of nets to the courts that weigh 25 pounds. They contain 12 pieces of steel tubing that we have to organize and assemble as well as nets that need to be unrolled installed and tightened.

This is why I'm asking the city for permanent pickleball courts. I honestly think it's only fair that the city provide facilities equal to those that are provided to the tennis community. I think if the tennis players had to set up and take down their cords every single time they played that they'd play a whole lot less tennis.

None of us are getting any younger. We'd love to see this happen sooner rather than later. Thank you."
You are about to go on ignore ... evil Raul
 
#21
Apparently Pickleball draws far more people. Dozens of Pickleball players showed up at the Parks & Rec hearing.

They are very excited about their growing sport and are campaigning to convert tennis courts into Pickle courts. No more joint use. Dedicated Pickle courts.

Sad for @ByeByePoly. :(

Sample comments from pickleball players that showed up at Parks & Rec Hearing:

"I noticed several weeks ago when I walked in and two people were playing tennis on that court and 20 Pickleball players were standing around waiting for them to finish."

"I've noticed that the tennis courts are never full anymore and often completely empty. But the good news is that the pickleball courts have come alive again."

"I wanted to let you know how much fun I'm having playing pickleball. I also wanted to let you know that when I was growing up the tennis courts were always full but in the number of decades since then I've noticed that the tennis courts are never full anymore and often completely empty."
Happened at 1 public facility I hit at; 1 of 7 courts converted. At one end there was at least an extra 12 feet behind the baseline so they could cram more courts in.

Amazing how noisy it is; thankfully they aren’t early risers and my sunrise hits aren’t affected.

Back to lights; one nearby high school has them but won’t let the public use them. Probably the rich folks across the street threatened legal action. Strange because all the high school matches are played and finish before dark - so they basically wasted the money - that could have been kept to resurface more often.
 
#22
In line with construction and technology costs. We have had many of our Cities trying to upgrade current lighting and replacing exsisting lights. Not cheap but well worth it.

Interesting proposal presentation and comment list from the Tempe Kiwanis Park upgrade they have worked on this last year and are completing. Check out the section on lighting and cost, then also check out the resident and other commentary, especially in regards to pickleball.
https://www.tempe.gov/home/showdocument?id=50845
https://www.tempe.gov/home/showdocument?id=50845

Phoenix Tennis Center did a full remodel for around $4.5 million, much of which is electrical and lighting costs.
 
#23
In line with construction and technology costs. We have had many of our Cities trying to upgrade current lighting and replacing exsisting lights. Not cheap but well worth it.

Interesting proposal presentation and comment list from the Tempe Kiwanis Park upgrade they have worked on this last year and are completing. Check out the section on lighting and cost, then also check out the resident and other commentary, especially in regards to pickleball.
https://www.tempe.gov/home/showdocument?id=50845

Phoenix Tennis Center did a full remodel for around $4.5 million, much of which is electrical and lighting costs.
I'm psyched for the new courts at Kiwanis!
 
#34
That’s for the cost of raw copper. Obviously it’s going to be more expensive when it’s turned into wire for outdoor projects.
Yes, but why would prices be higher for wire if the base commodity has been stable along with very low global inflation and significant overproduction capacity?
 
#35
Yes, but why would prices be higher for wire if the base commodity has been stable along with very low global inflation and significant overproduction capacity?
Because the wire requires processing (energy and labor plus shipping).

Think of it like tennis string. The cost of the plastic is probably pennies literally. But that’s not what we pay for a pack of Luxilon is it?
 
#36
Because the wire requires processing (energy and labor plus shipping).

Think of it like tennis string. The cost of the plastic is probably pennies literally. But that’s not what we pay for a pack of Luxilon is it?
And why would that change over time with significant deflationary pressures?

One minor point: I bought a copper miner in April that was bought out two weeks ago so about 70% for holding it for four months while copper prices were falling. The $USD has been climbing depressing the price of commodities and imported goods while killing emerging markets.
 
#37
Half a mil seems completely insane. I'm installing lights on my court down here in Baja and it's US$14,000 all-in for top-of-the-line LED lights on 8 posts (4 per side). They just installed the same lights at the country club in Tijuana that hosted Mexico's last Davis Cup match. I realize the labor doesn't cost much here, but... half a million? Seems ludicrous.
 
#38
Half a mil seems completely insane. I'm installing lights on my court down here in Baja and it's US$14,000 all-in for top-of-the-line LED lights on 8 posts (4 per side). They just installed the same lights at the country club in Tijuana that hosted Mexico's last Davis Cup match. I realize the labor doesn't cost much here, but... half a million? Seems ludicrous.
Maybe patching up some underfunded pensions.
 
#39
Half a mil seems completely insane. I'm installing lights on my court down here in Baja and it's US$14,000 all-in for top-of-the-line LED lights on 8 posts (4 per side). They just installed the same lights at the country club in Tijuana that hosted Mexico's last Davis Cup match. I realize the labor doesn't cost much here, but... half a million? Seems ludicrous.
https://www.boston.com/culture/local-news/2018/09/15/quincy-just-opened-a-32-million-park-downtown

Here you go. It's not about what you think it should cost or what it would cost in Mexico, it's about what it costs to do at your locale. Labor being the single biggest component. Electricians and other licensed contractors don't work for cheap. Your anecdote about lights in Baja is a good illustration of why factories went to Mexico and why Mexicans want to come here. You can get paid 3 times as much to do the same work here as you would in Mexico.

Honestly half a million to do lights at municipal courts in the SF area sounds like a pretty good price to me. You gotta remember that the cost of installing a higher level system is going to be a lot more than doing a lower level, home system. To put it another way Johnnie Walker Blue goes for like 10 times the price of a standard scotch whiskey. Does that mean it's 10 times better? No, of course not. But its definitely better and the people that want that level of quality will pay the price. A municipality is going to need to install a different level of lighting system than someone lighting their home court. The increase in price does not match the increase in quality.
 
#41
https://www.boston.com/culture/local-news/2018/09/15/quincy-just-opened-a-32-million-park-downtown
Here you go. It's not about what you think it should cost or what it would cost in Mexico, it's about what it costs to do at your locale. Labor being the single biggest component. Electricians and other licensed contractors don't work for cheap. Your anecdote about lights in Baja is a good illustration of why factories went to Mexico and why Mexicans want to come here. You can get paid 3 times as much to do the same work here as you would in Mexico.
Well, using your math I still only get to ~US$250,000 ($14,000 x 6 lights x 3 labor factor), but yes your general point about the labor is correct. Also, I'm sure there are a lot of additional plans and permits and regulations, etc etc etc... half a million still seems ridiculous but, well, it ain't my problem.

Anyhow... earn dollars, spend pesos. It's a simple formula.
 
#43
My dad told us when we were kids that only poor people work for money. He said our money makes us money.
Maybe the idle rich have it better. There are a lot of CEOs that work quite hard even though they don’t objectiuhave to. Unless your dad had more than Warren, Larry, Tim and Satya.
 
#44
Parks and Rec says $500,000 just to install lights for 6 courts!... is this a government price?
:eek:

time = 1:20:50

1st, number being so round suggests that bidders did not really compete with each other which suggests corruption.
Second, as a thumb of rule, you should divide the number by 4 or 5 to find the real market price for the work.
Third, only contracts that are fairly budgeted are the ones that nobody wants to do and/or can't do (can't get someone else do it).
 
#45
1st, number being so round suggests that bidders did not really compete with each other which suggests corruption.
Second, as a thumb of rule, you should divide the number by 4 or 5 to find the real market price for the work.
Third, only contracts that are fairly budgeted are the ones that nobody wants to do and/or can't do (can't get someone else do it).
hehe, i thought that too... how did no one ask for the comparables of competing contractors.
that's the first thing i do when looking for contractors.
for all we know, it was that guy's brother who "won" the contract...
 
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