$500,000 just to light Tennis Courts?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Raul_SJ, Sep 11, 2018.

  1. Raul_SJ

    Raul_SJ Hall of Fame

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    Parks and Rec says $500,000 just to install lights for 6 courts!... is this a government price?
    :eek:

    time = 1:20:50

     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
    #1
  2. andreh

    andreh Professional

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    Ron would be furious
     
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  3. nytennisaddict

    nytennisaddict Legend

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  4. BulldogLouisiana

    BulldogLouisiana Rookie

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    Child labor laws are ruining this country.
     
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  5. Traffic

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    There's probably design fees, admin fees, contingencies, permits involved.
    Plus you have to get power. So there may be trenching involved, service cabinet, possibly even setting a transformer?
    You have to run conduit from your service to each of the poles.
    I'm sure the poles were selected that meet the asthetic requirements fo the area. We're talking Palo Alto, right? A single concrete pole could cost $10k.
    Each fixture can cost up to $2500 depending on asthetics.
    Poles need concrete foundations
    There's property restoration
    You need a control unit.
    Wire/cabling is not cheap
    I'd be surprised if they didn't do a bunch of maintenance on the court at the same time.

    The cost of putting up lights for private court for an apartment complex or your backyard is going to be waaaaaay cheaper than what a municipality has to install to hold up to public use.
     
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  6. WestboroChe

    WestboroChe Semi-Pro

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    Construction costs are always astronomical especially in a place like Palo Alto. Here in MA we have a plan in place to put lights at the HS athletic field. I believe the cost was about $250k for four light towers.
     
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  7. shazbot

    shazbot Semi-Pro

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    You a member at WTSC?
     
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  8. WestboroChe

    WestboroChe Semi-Pro

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    Yes
     
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  9. r2473

    r2473 G.O.A.T.

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    Ya, sure. But with all of the money generated by rec tennis.......

    On second thought, forget it.
     
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  10. WestboroChe

    WestboroChe Semi-Pro

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    Totally, the cost of the copper wiring is suprisingly expensive in itself. Why do you think thieves strip wire and pipes out of buildings?
     
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  11. Raul_SJ

    Raul_SJ Hall of Fame

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    Who is Ron?
     
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  12. Raul_SJ

    Raul_SJ Hall of Fame

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    Apparently Pickleball draws far more people. Dozens of Pickleball players showed up at the Parks & Rec hearing.

    They are very excited about their growing sport and are campaigning to convert tennis courts into Pickle courts. No more joint use. Dedicated Pickle courts.

    Sad for @ByeByePoly. :(

    Sample comments from pickleball players that showed up at Parks & Rec Hearing:

    "I noticed several weeks ago when I walked in and two people were playing tennis on that court and 20 Pickleball players were standing around waiting for them to finish."

    "I've noticed that the tennis courts are never full anymore and often completely empty. But the good news is that the pickleball courts have come alive again."

    "I wanted to let you know how much fun I'm having playing pickleball. I also wanted to let you know that when I was growing up the tennis courts were always full but in the number of decades since then I've noticed that the tennis courts are never full anymore and often completely empty."
     
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  13. r2473

    r2473 G.O.A.T.

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    [​IMG]
     
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  14. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    Are you trying to hurt me? :mad:
     
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  15. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    Have to give it up on this one ... that is frickin funny.

    "I see dead tennis players .. and they don't even know they are dead".
     
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  16. Raul_SJ

    Raul_SJ Hall of Fame

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    You were right. There are a bunch of pickle players. Apparently each set takes 15 minutes to play and a whole bunch turn up.
    Also difficult to set up pickle on tennis courts, so they want Parks&Rec to convert tennis courts to dedicated pickle only courts.

    "We really need permanent courts and we need them sooner rather than later. Many of you probably don't know what it takes to set up our portable net so let me tell you what that's like . Every single time we want to play we lug bags of nets to the courts that weigh 25 pounds. They contain 12 pieces of steel tubing that we have to organize and assemble as well as nets that need to be unrolled installed and tightened.

    This is why I'm asking the city for permanent pickleball courts. I honestly think it's only fair that the city provide facilities equal to those that are provided to the tennis community. I think if the tennis players had to set up and take down their cords every single time they played that they'd play a whole lot less tennis.

    None of us are getting any younger. We'd love to see this happen sooner rather than later. Thank you."
     
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  17. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    You are about to go on ignore ... evil Raul
     
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  18. rogerroger917

    rogerroger917 Hall of Fame

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    Death to all pickle people. Go get their own courts. Kids don't want to play pickle ball. Only old gramps
     
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  19. WestboroChe

    WestboroChe Semi-Pro

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    It appears that the kids don’t want to play tennis either. :(
     
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  20. andreh

    andreh Professional

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    Ron Swanson - Parks and Recreation

     
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  21. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    Happened at 1 public facility I hit at; 1 of 7 courts converted. At one end there was at least an extra 12 feet behind the baseline so they could cram more courts in.

    Amazing how noisy it is; thankfully they aren’t early risers and my sunrise hits aren’t affected.

    Back to lights; one nearby high school has them but won’t let the public use them. Probably the rich folks across the street threatened legal action. Strange because all the high school matches are played and finish before dark - so they basically wasted the money - that could have been kept to resurface more often.
     
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  22. ChaelAZ

    ChaelAZ Hall of Fame

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    In line with construction and technology costs. We have had many of our Cities trying to upgrade current lighting and replacing exsisting lights. Not cheap but well worth it.

    Interesting proposal presentation and comment list from the Tempe Kiwanis Park upgrade they have worked on this last year and are completing. Check out the section on lighting and cost, then also check out the resident and other commentary, especially in regards to pickleball.

    https://www.tempe.gov/home/showdocument?id=50845

    Phoenix Tennis Center did a full remodel for around $4.5 million, much of which is electrical and lighting costs.
     
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  23. Steady Eddy

    Steady Eddy Hall of Fame

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    I'm psyched for the new courts at Kiwanis!
     
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  24. ChaelAZ

    ChaelAZ Hall of Fame

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    I thought you were northern AZ? You local, and if so why haven’t we met? Or have we?


    Probably posting from the court between sets.
     
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  25. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    Because @Shroud said you were cra cra.
     
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  26. Steady Eddy

    Steady Eddy Hall of Fame

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    In the summer, I often go to northern AZ.
     
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  27. ChaelAZ

    ChaelAZ Hall of Fame

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    I may go all Serena on court, but I am still a champion, right? Or is that a CHUMPion?


    Probably posting from the court between sets.
     
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  28. ChaelAZ

    ChaelAZ Hall of Fame

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    When we hitting?


    Probably posting from the court between sets.
     
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  29. Steady Eddy

    Steady Eddy Hall of Fame

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    I'm trying to do a private message. Is that the same as a conversation?
     
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  30. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    yes
     
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  31. movdqa

    movdqa G.O.A.T.

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    Copper is $2.50/pound and has been trading in a range between $1.50 and $4.50 for the past ten years.
     
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  32. WestboroChe

    WestboroChe Semi-Pro

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    That’s for the cost of raw copper. Obviously it’s going to be more expensive when it’s turned into wire for outdoor projects.
     
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  33. ChaelAZ

    ChaelAZ Hall of Fame

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    Thanks amigo. Sent a response
     
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  34. movdqa

    movdqa G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, but why would prices be higher for wire if the base commodity has been stable along with very low global inflation and significant overproduction capacity?
     
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  35. WestboroChe

    WestboroChe Semi-Pro

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    Because the wire requires processing (energy and labor plus shipping).

    Think of it like tennis string. The cost of the plastic is probably pennies literally. But that’s not what we pay for a pack of Luxilon is it?
     
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  36. movdqa

    movdqa G.O.A.T.

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    And why would that change over time with significant deflationary pressures?

    One minor point: I bought a copper miner in April that was bought out two weeks ago so about 70% for holding it for four months while copper prices were falling. The $USD has been climbing depressing the price of commodities and imported goods while killing emerging markets.
     
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  37. navigator

    navigator Hall of Fame

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    Half a mil seems completely insane. I'm installing lights on my court down here in Baja and it's US$14,000 all-in for top-of-the-line LED lights on 8 posts (4 per side). They just installed the same lights at the country club in Tijuana that hosted Mexico's last Davis Cup match. I realize the labor doesn't cost much here, but... half a million? Seems ludicrous.
     
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  38. movdqa

    movdqa G.O.A.T.

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    Maybe patching up some underfunded pensions.
     
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  39. WestboroChe

    WestboroChe Semi-Pro

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    https://www.boston.com/culture/local-news/2018/09/15/quincy-just-opened-a-32-million-park-downtown

    Here you go. It's not about what you think it should cost or what it would cost in Mexico, it's about what it costs to do at your locale. Labor being the single biggest component. Electricians and other licensed contractors don't work for cheap. Your anecdote about lights in Baja is a good illustration of why factories went to Mexico and why Mexicans want to come here. You can get paid 3 times as much to do the same work here as you would in Mexico.

    Honestly half a million to do lights at municipal courts in the SF area sounds like a pretty good price to me. You gotta remember that the cost of installing a higher level system is going to be a lot more than doing a lower level, home system. To put it another way Johnnie Walker Blue goes for like 10 times the price of a standard scotch whiskey. Does that mean it's 10 times better? No, of course not. But its definitely better and the people that want that level of quality will pay the price. A municipality is going to need to install a different level of lighting system than someone lighting their home court. The increase in price does not match the increase in quality.
     
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  40. Steady Eddy

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  41. navigator

    navigator Hall of Fame

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    Well, using your math I still only get to ~US$250,000 ($14,000 x 6 lights x 3 labor factor), but yes your general point about the labor is correct. Also, I'm sure there are a lot of additional plans and permits and regulations, etc etc etc... half a million still seems ridiculous but, well, it ain't my problem.

    Anyhow... earn dollars, spend pesos. It's a simple formula.
     
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  42. rogerroger917

    rogerroger917 Hall of Fame

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    My dad told us when we were kids that only poor people work for money. He said our money makes us money.
     
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  43. movdqa

    movdqa G.O.A.T.

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    Maybe the idle rich have it better. There are a lot of CEOs that work quite hard even though they don’t objectiuhave to. Unless your dad had more than Warren, Larry, Tim and Satya.
     
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  44. donquijote

    donquijote Legend

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    1st, number being so round suggests that bidders did not really compete with each other which suggests corruption.
    Second, as a thumb of rule, you should divide the number by 4 or 5 to find the real market price for the work.
    Third, only contracts that are fairly budgeted are the ones that nobody wants to do and/or can't do (can't get someone else do it).
     
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  45. nytennisaddict

    nytennisaddict Legend

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    hehe, i thought that too... how did no one ask for the comparables of competing contractors.
    that's the first thing i do when looking for contractors.
    for all we know, it was that guy's brother who "won" the contract...
     
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  46. ChaelAZ

    ChaelAZ Hall of Fame

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    #46
  47. Steady Eddy

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    Way out in Sun City? I go to the Tennis Cabana in Chandler. They're awesome.
     
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