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Legend
Diego is awesome.
The guy took a set off Novak, arguably one of the best players who ever lived.
The guy took a set off Novak, arguably one of the best players who ever lived.
People who say 5'9" de facto can't be a pro player are factually clueless.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterexample
The sentence "short players can't be top ranked pro players" is FALSE.
because logic...
In logic, and especially in its applications to mathematics and philosophy, a counterexample is an exception to a proposed general rule or law. For example, consider the proposition "all students are lazy". Because this statement makes the claim that a certain property (laziness) holds for all students, even a single example of a diligent student will prove it false. Thus, any hard-working student is a counterexample to "all students are lazy". More precisely, a counterexample is a specific instance of the falsity of a universal quantification (a "for all" statement).
Of course height is an advantage.
I said that "height is vastly overrated in tennis", as proven by Diego.
And Rios at number 1 at 5' 9"I believe Michael Chang was only about 5'8" without shoes, and he was a solid #2 for a while. So at least you have that.
Laver was 5' 8.5"I concur. Chang was maybe 5.6, and one point from number 1; Rios was number 1, both were in the Sampras era. Connors was 5.9 maybe. Diego is more like 5.5. Johan Kriek won 2 AOs at 5.7 in the prePoly age. Laver 5.6, Rosewall 5.6 back in the day. These are not just pros, they were TOP pros in tough eras. Diego top 11 in the world... people skoff like that´s nothing...hahahaha. Also my personal fav. Henin, 5.3 maybe, schooled the Williams when she was world number 1 in WTA.
Fallacy of Exception.When someone mentions Schwartzman , it is like a booby prize.
Yea, short players can technically make it to pro, and Schwartzman is the given example.
But no one really mentions it in a serious context.
He is dismissed as if he's an ATP 500.
A mere technicality.
I had no idea 5'7" Diego Schwartzman reached ATP #11
He is currently a top 20 player. TOP 20.
If 5'7" can reach top 10, then height is vastly overrated in tennis.
He is ahead of tens of thousands of taller players.
Diego is awesome.
The guy took a set off Novak, arguably one of the best players who ever lived.
I'd rather be the last ranked player in the Universe than be Diego's height and in the top 20.
Diego is a great player. I admire him so much. True fighter. Ladies, I'm straight, but I also have to say he is so good looking. Better looking than AZ. Let's hope he can do some serious damage at RG.
I just like him so much. The thing is what you can do with Dear God gave you. Yes, he is physically short but he is also MUST TALLER than many other tall players. One of my favorites.![]()
Good point. It's pretty obvious the balance has changed, and I would put very little emphasis on reach, which I think is exaggerated in importance. The elephant in the room is the serve itself. When you look at service stats it is very clear that they go up and down, in general, according to height. You have guys under 6 foot who have better service stats than much taller players, but when you take all players under 6 foot and compare them with guys much taller, the difference is obvious.This is also why shorter players were more competitive in the wooden racket era - it was harder to overpower players with better technique before racket technology advanced.
Good point. It's pretty obvious the balance has changed, and I would put very little emphasis on reach, which I think is exaggerated in importance. The elephant in the room is the serve itself. When you look at service stats it is very clear that they go up and down, in general, according to height. You have guys under 6 foot who have better service stats than much taller players, but when you take all players under 6 foot and compare them with guys much taller, the difference is obvious.
Something obviously has changed. You can say that Laver only did so well because there were not many tall guys around with good coordination, but I find that unlikely. More likely it's about the change in 2nd serve statistics. You had guys way back who could fire off canon shots, but that was on 1st serve. No one had the kind of 2nd serve statistics as today's players get with poly. You can even see the difference comparing 2nd serve stats from the 90s with today's.
I agree with you.
For example, basketball in the 1960's-1980's had plenty of tall, coordinated guys such as Bill Russell, Pete Maravich, Oscar Robertson, Elgin Baylor, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Julius Erving, Hakeem Olajuwon, Kevin McHale, Moses Malone, etc.
It's not like there were a bunch of 5'9" guys dominating the NBA in the 1960's, 1970's, and 1980's because of a lack of tall guys with good coordination![]()
I know. People ignore the changes in the game itself. When you change the equipment, you change everything. I grew up using wood, and I quit before everything got changed over. As I've said before, my job and life style stopped me from playing tennis, and I'm not the kind of person who can stand doing anything without total commitment. So I hung it up. I'm frozen in time as a player. I know damned well what I see today was not possible with what I played with. You see players today hit 2HBHs with the "wrong" foot splayed out to the side, and they all do it. Try that with an old heavy wood and gut racket. With those clubs you had to be prepared. No one hit a wristy shot on the forehand the way you see from guys like Sock and Kyrgios. Every shot had to be prepared with a follow-through. Just think of trying to hit a tweener with Laver's racket. People think young players suddenly invented these shots and the old timers were too slow, too uncoordinated and too limited to do such "athletic" shots. Try skidding on concrete with the shoes we used to wear.I agree with you.
For example, basketball in the 1960's-1980's had plenty of tall, coordinated guys such as Bill Russell, Pete Maravich, Oscar Robertson, Elgin Baylor, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Julius Erving, Hakeem Olajuwon, Kevin McHale, Moses Malone, etc.
It's not like there were a bunch of 5'9" guys dominating the NBA in the 1960's, 1970's, and 1980's because of a lack of tall guys with good coordination![]()
Pics or it didnt happenHave a bunch of pics with him at Cinci with him in his flip flops. He is legit 5'5" to 5'6" territory.
We've been through this a million times and Diego is about 5'5. Definitely a short dude. Incredible success given his height, but he's the exception that proves the rule.
Current (as of Monday) top 10:
Djokovic, 6'2
Nadal, 6'1
Zverev, 6'6
Fedr, 6'1
Delpo, 6'6
Anderson, 6'8
Nishikori, 5'10
Thiem, 6'0
Isner, 6'10
Tsitsipas, 6'4 (official, I think he might be taller).
If you look at the best players in the history of the modern game, they are between 5'10" and 6'2", therefore saying that someone under 5'9" does not have a chance to be successful on tour then you might as well say that players over 6'3" does not have a chance either.When someone mentions Schwartzman , it is like a booby prize.
Yea, short players can technically make it to pro, and Schwartzman is the given example.
But no one really mentions it in a serious context.
He is dismissed as if he's an ATP 500.
A mere technicality.
I had no idea 5'7" Diego Schwartzman reached ATP #11
He is currently a top 20 player. TOP 20.
If 5'7" can reach top 10, then height is vastly overrated in tennis.
He is ahead of tens of thousands of taller players.
What a silly comment. So NBA players (who are taller that ATP players) comes from the upper middle class?It might be 5 ft 9 if you average all the ages/demographics of men in the US but certain sectors are much taller. I bet the average height for young upper middle class men is close to the atp top ten average and thats where most US tennis players come from.
Shorter players know they have a disadvantage and must be mentally/physically strong to compete at the highest level. You put Shwartzman's brain into a Kyrgios skull and you have a GS champion. Taller players have easy power with all that extra leverage but a smaller player needs better timing and sense of anticipation/footwork.
Diego plays tall with a lot of heart while bigger more gifted players tend to be small upstairs.
What a silly comment. So NBA players (who are taller that ATP players) comes from the upper middle class?
This isn't news. The GOAT is 5'8".When someone mentions Schwartzman , it is like a booby prize.
Yea, short players can technically make it to pro, and Schwartzman is the given example.
But no one really mentions it in a serious context.
He is dismissed as if he's an ATP 500.
A mere technicality.
I had no idea 5'7" Diego Schwartzman reached ATP #11
He is currently a top 20 player. TOP 20.
If 5'7" can reach top 10, then height is vastly overrated in tennis.
He is ahead of tens of thousands of taller players.
Lol finally someone else admits Diego is bae af.
Start at 45 secs..... ughhhh lol
5'7 is generous...he looks a few inches shorter.
I'd love to see him win RG someday.
He is no more than 163 cm. At the most. Maybe even less.Without.
My parents reaction was basically 'lol wtf no chance in hell'
Just wanted to say, GOAT avatar.Is TTPS still around these days?
He is no more than 163 cm. At the most. Maybe even less.
When he "shook hands" with Djokovic today there was at the very least a head's length difference there.
Since Djokovic is 188 there is no way in hell Schwartz is 170. That's sci-fi.
It makes me wonder how much of the official ATP height/weight info is believable.
IMDb claims Richard Gere is 180. No. He is also less than 170. Everyone's lying and cheating.
Diego does look shorter than 5'7". Listed heights are often exaggerated.
He has so much power in his groundstrokes though. He might be the hardest pound for pound hitter I've seen.
Olivier Rochus was tiny and hit big as well. I saw him beat Wawrinka in person then he took a set off Fed the next round, in Fed's prime.
He's got an even H2H with Djokovic in 6 matches tooOlivier Rochus was tiny and hit big as well. I saw him beat Wawrinka in person then he took a set off Fed the next round, in Fed's prime.
I can’t stop laughing at your new avy. Someone help meHe's really 5'5''-5'6''